Warning: Don't be caught sleeping when the "Thief" comes!

[Thomas2]

5 minutes ago, Cntrysner said:

Those in the Body of Christ are neither Jew nor Gentile... 

Gal 3:28  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

Apostle Paul wrote the Epistle you quote, as well as speaking in Acts, confirming that he is a Jew.

Also the gospel of Christ is unto salvation to the Jew FIRST, and if you, reread my statement, you might see that I had talked about the apostles and Paul being Jews, and how this was FIRST.

 

Acts 21:39 But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.

Acts 22:3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

 

"Israel and the Gentiles are one in Christ, its empty to think otherwise, as the apostles are the FIRST followers and Paul, Jews.

Salvation is not different for anyone, it is in believing that Jesus Christ died and rose again the third day for our sins."

[Thomas2]

Does anyone notice that the forum is a place susceptible to confusion, constant correction leading to misunderstanding, battles, supremacy/envy, and not in the likeminded faith of understanding of Christ, that is peace instead.

[Thomas2]

If nobody notices these things, if there is no good in sharing the faith, it will be better shared where there is no strife, someone might understand that.

[Cntrysner]

50 AD 1Th
1Th 4:14  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 
1Th 4:15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 
1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 
1Th 4:17  Then  we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together  with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This trump,verse16, is not the last trump or call, it is to believers at death that are gathered to the Lord, they as the beggar at death was carried by angels to father Abraham’s bosom (Luk 16:22) we will be carried by Christ to the Father’s bosom. They are the dead in Christ that rise first and the ones that God brings with Christ from the Father‘s presence, verse 14, they are alive in Christ at the Father’s right hand (Eph 2:6). 
 
Joh 14:3  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

2Co 5:8  We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Php 1:23  For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: 
Php 1:24  Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.   
 
The colon meaning in grammar can be …a list of items following and separate units of time as seen with the use of then and there is no indication as to how long until then will be. 
Then will be the last trump, a all at one time event, caught up together, which will be a calling to those that are alive and remain at the rapture before the wrath of God (1Th 1:10)(1Th 5:9). 
 

On 9/4/2024 at 5:00 PM, AdHoc said:

Concerning the resurrection, it is the last trumpet for the Christians. Note the grammar of 1st Corinthians 15.

It indeed is the last trump or call for the body of Christ and they will be transfigured as Christ was at His glorious ascension (2 Co 3:16-18). It is not a resurrection of the flesh but an escape from the earth and it’s elements (Php 3:20,21). To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord as Paul (2Co 5::8)  thus leaving the flesh body behind ( 2Co 5:1-8, Php 1:23-24) to be clothed in the Spiritual body of Christ (1 Co 12;12).

55AD 1 Co
Co 15:50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 
1Co 15:51  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 
1Co 15:52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 
1Co 15:53  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 
1Co 15:54  So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 
1Co 15:55  O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 

We in the Body of Christ will not groan in death of the body as some believe, we will rejoice in victory. 

A mystery is something that has not been revealed before. What was not revealed in 1 Thessalonians but now is in 1 Corinthians is we shall all be change.  

Some in the Body will die a natural death, Paul says they are asleep in Christ to get them to understand the mystery that they did not descend in death but rose in Christ yet their body was in the grave. Paul is not speaking of the natural but from a spiritual perspective. Then we, those who are alive and remain in this body of death (Rom 7:24) yet Spiritually alive in Christ will be raised and thus all will be changed. Where those referred to as asleep in Christ changed? You can bet your bottom dollar they were.

Rom 14:8  For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. 

Rom 6:5  For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 
Rom 6:6  Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 
Rom 6:7  For he that is dead is freed from sin. 
Rom 6:8  Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 

Paul was speaking to the living when he said “we shall all be changed “ but it will not occur at the same moment in time, each in their own turn at natural death and then all together for those that are alive and remain and when it does occur it will happen in the twinkling of an eye.
Are we the walking dead? In a spiritual sense we are and that’s the way God sees it, dead in Christ.. Col 3:3, dead in sins, or naturally dead. When Paul speaks of the dead it could be spiritual or literal. The same applies to the word resurrection in a earthly sense verses rising in a Spiritual sense. We in the Body of Christ were born in the image of the earthly and will wear the image of the heavenly (1 Co 15:49). Paul did not know Christ in the resurrected flesh and said we know him no more (2 Co 5:15-17) he met the glorified Christ after He rose again at His ascension. Christ rose from the dead and then rose again to the Father.
 

On 9/4/2024 at 5:00 PM, AdHoc said:

I misjudged. I thought you knew that the trump that calls the DEAD Christians was the last one for Christians.

First off there is no such thing as a dead member in His Body. There is a trump call for those that died naturally and then afterwards the last trump call for those that are alive and remain.

 

On 9/4/2024 at 5:00 PM, AdHoc said:

I didn't add to scripture. But perhaps you can tell me who the DEAD are? Paul says "WE shall not all sleep". Who are the sleepers then if Christians don't die? Who must put on immortality? And who are the mortal? "WE" means Paul makes them the same as the Church at Corinth - Christians.

All are born spiritually dead, sleepers are those that died naturally yet were alive in Christ and did not experience spiritual death.

Joh 11:26  And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 
 

On 9/4/2024 at 5:00 PM, AdHoc said:

But let's leave of arguing. The other readers can judge.

Why so brother? I enjoy our discussions. My hope is there will be many readers.
 

[Mr. M]

13 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

I just had this thought as I was doing my `walking` around the house for exercise. 

`We ask the wrong question` concerning the coming of the Lord. We say `no one knows the day or hour,` (true), it is immanent, (anytime), but that is not true. There is something we will see that indicates we will very soon be caught away to meet the Lord in the air.

So, I believe as God`s word tells us that we are NOT in the Day of the LORD (God Almighty in judgment) that we should be asking - "When is the Day of the LORD?` 

It is revealed in the Old Testament. Any takers? 

2 Thessalonians 2:

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

[Marilyn C]

16 hours ago, NConly said:

The body 1 Thess 4: 16-17

Israel Jere 30: 3,7,8

I agree concerning the Body of Christ, but Israel will still have to go through 7 years of its final chastisement. They will be saved OUT of the trib, (which runs concurrent with the 7 years) as Jer. 30: 7 & 8 reveal, however that is as a nation. Not all of Israel will go through.

`And it shall come to pass in all the land," says the LORD, "The two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, but one-third shall be left in it." (Zech. 13: 8)

[Marilyn C]

8 hours ago, Mr. M said:

2 Thessalonians 2:

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Some translators have written the Day wrongly. It is the Day of the LORD (God Almighty in judgment). 

Now good try as to my question. However, Paul is referring to what will happen IN the Day of the Lord. My question was -

There is something we will see that indicates we will very soon be caught away to meet the Lord in the air.

So, I believe as God`s word tells us that we are NOT in the Day of the LORD (God Almighty in judgment) that we should be asking - "When is the Day of the LORD?` 

It is revealed in the Old Testament. Any takers?   

[AdHoc]

22 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

The parable of the two servants is for Israel who is in darkness. They will be surprised when the Lord comes for them. And that is at the end of the trib. 

As to believers, only those who are `eagerly waiting` will be caught up to the Lord.

`So Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.` (Heb. 9: 28)

And that is a short period of time before the trib.

Since when was Israel "servants"? Are they not "enemies"?

Since when are unbelievers who are in darkness set into the Household of God to feed fellowservants?

Since when are there TWO servants. The grammar is clear. It is "THAT servant" - the one who started so well?

Since the parable concerns the day of the coming of the Lord are not Israel long since dispersed?

Since Israel can know the day of the Lord from Daniel, why did the evil servant not know?

Since our Lord said that parables were specially there so that Israel did not know, how could the evil servant know that "his Lord" "delayeth". As a Jew, he does not acknowledge Jesus as Lord and still waits for Him from Bethlehem.

You see what happens when you go down the wrong road?

[AdHoc]

10 hours ago, Cntrysner said:

50 AD 1Th
1Th 4:14  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 
1Th 4:15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 
1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 
1Th 4:17  Then  we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together  with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This trump,verse16, is not the last trump or call, it is to believers at death that are gathered to the Lord, they as the beggar at death was carried by angels to father Abraham’s bosom (Luk 16:22) we will be carried by Christ to the Father’s bosom. They are the dead in Christ that rise first and the ones that God brings with Christ from the Father‘s presence, verse 14, they are alive in Christ at the Father’s right hand (Eph 2:6). 
 
Joh 14:3  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

2Co 5:8  We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Php 1:23  For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: 
Php 1:24  Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.   
 
The colon meaning in grammar can be …a list of items following and separate units of time as seen with the use of then and there is no indication as to how long until then will be. 
Then will be the last trump, a all at one time event, caught up together, which will be a calling to those that are alive and remain at the rapture before the wrath of God (1Th 1:10)(1Th 5:9). 
 

It indeed is the last trump or call for the body of Christ and they will be transfigured as Christ was at His glorious ascension (2 Co 3:16-18). It is not a resurrection of the flesh but an escape from the earth and it’s elements (Php 3:20,21). To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord as Paul (2Co 5::8)  thus leaving the flesh body behind ( 2Co 5:1-8, Php 1:23-24) to be clothed in the Spiritual body of Christ (1 Co 12;12).

55AD 1 Co
Co 15:50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 
1Co 15:51  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 
1Co 15:52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 
1Co 15:53  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 
1Co 15:54  So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 
1Co 15:55  O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 

We in the Body of Christ will not groan in death of the body as some believe, we will rejoice in victory. 

A mystery is something that has not been revealed before. What was not revealed in 1 Thessalonians but now is in 1 Corinthians is we shall all be change.  

Some in the Body will die a natural death, Paul says they are asleep in Christ to get them to understand the mystery that they did not descend in death but rose in Christ yet their body was in the grave. Paul is not speaking of the natural but from a spiritual perspective. Then we, those who are alive and remain in this body of death (Rom 7:24) yet Spiritually alive in Christ will be raised and thus all will be changed. Where those referred to as asleep in Christ changed? You can bet your bottom dollar they were.

Rom 14:8  For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. 

Rom 6:5  For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 
Rom 6:6  Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 
Rom 6:7  For he that is dead is freed from sin. 
Rom 6:8  Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 

Paul was speaking to the living when he said “we shall all be changed “ but it will not occur at the same moment in time, each in their own turn at natural death and then all together for those that are alive and remain and when it does occur it will happen in the twinkling of an eye.
Are we the walking dead? In a spiritual sense we are and that’s the way God sees it, dead in Christ.. Col 3:3, dead in sins, or naturally dead. When Paul speaks of the dead it could be spiritual or literal. The same applies to the word resurrection in a earthly sense verses rising in a Spiritual sense. We in the Body of Christ were born in the image of the earthly and will wear the image of the heavenly (1 Co 15:49). Paul did not know Christ in the resurrected flesh and said we know him no more (2 Co 5:15-17) he met the glorified Christ after He rose again at His ascension. Christ rose from the dead and then rose again to the Father.
 

First off there is no such thing as a dead member in His Body. There is a trump call for those that died naturally and then afterwards the last trump call for those that are alive and remain.

 

All are born spiritually dead, sleepers are those that died naturally yet were alive in Christ and did not experience spiritual death.

Joh 11:26  And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 
 

Why so brother? I enjoy our discussions. My hope is there will be many readers.
 

Okay. I don't mind discussing but in a previous posting I gave certain arguments that we re simply ignored. One was that spirits can't die. Let's make it easier. Just show me two verses that sa that spirits die and two spirits that died.

If that proves to be impossible, then show me two humans that went to heaven dead.

Please explain how you can DIE naturally but not DIE?

You use John 11:26 to show that we do not die. here is the text:

23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?  (Jn.11:23–26).

Jesus said that Lazarus was dead.
Martha said Lazarus was dead
The witnesses said he had been dead for over 3 days
Jesus said that Lazarus would rise again (future tense) "AT THE LAST DAY". You say that he was already risen and in heaven.
Jesus said that that believers die but "YET shall live". This means that they are really dead
Jesus said "whosoever LIVETH". He is talking about the LIVING when the last day comes. That he will never die is guaranteed by 1st Corinthians 15:50-53. You quoted it yourself. Thia also agrees with 1st Thessalonians 4:13-17. There, the dead RISE. How could they if they were in heaven? Then TOGETHER with the living they are "caught away" TO MEET THE LORD. You have them already in His company.

What about David in Acts 2. He is still in his grave. His soul is in Hades. He has NOT ascended to heaven!

What about 1st corinthians 15:22-23. Who then is raised "WHEN HE COMES"?

[NConly]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

I agree concerning the Body of Christ, but Israel will still have to go through 7 years of its final chastisement. They will be saved OUT of the trib, (which runs concurrent with the 7 years) as Jer. 30: 7 & 8 reveal, however that is as a nation. Not all of Israel will go through.

`And it shall come to pass in all the land," says the LORD, "The two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, but one-third shall be left in it." (Zech. 13: 8)

Can you tell me where to read about the 7 year final chastisement?