One comment on Genesis 6:1-4--not demons or angels.

[DeighAnn]

10 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

Yes:  One kind of people = humans 

Why is 'Strange' used here, with a meaning of 2087 instead of 243 as you are putting forth? 

 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange (2087) flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

heteros other
of two: another, a second,
other, different, one's neighbor.

another - of a different kind, distinct in kind 

contrasted with 243 állos -another of the same kind

Also -  another of a different quality

 emphasizes it is qualitatively different from its counterpart 

and sometimes refers to "another" of a different class group or type



 

[angels4u]

1 hour ago, other one said:

So does Jesus loves me, but it doesn't pertain to Genesis Chapter six.   I've been here for over 20 years and this subject comes up at least once a year and can last for a couple of hundred posts where people days does too and one says does not, and it goes on and on.

I've been personally involved with them in this physical world (30 years ago) and there is no way you can convince me that the sons of God in the Old Testament are not angels and demons are the disembodied spirits of their dead offspring.  In a deep study of the occult, they will open themselves up to you, and you don't have to guess about it any longer.

I can recommend a couple of Michael Hiser videos if you are up to spending some time with it.   The first ones are a six-hour seminar on the subject of the unseen realm.  Michael has a doctorate degree in Hebrew and several others concerning the Bible and language comparison.

We can't post URL videos longer than 20 minutes, or I would already have them here

Th unseen real is amazing,I might listen to that again..

How are you and your wife doing?

[BornAgain490]

54 minutes ago, other one said:

He explains it better than I could here, and I don't have the time or inclination to type that much.   So I guess we have little to discuss and will hopefully just agree to disagree.

Amen 

[angels4u]

16 hours ago, other one said:

I and many others totally disagree.

 

Job 38:4-7

4 "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?
Tell me, if you have understanding.
5 Who determined its measurements—surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
6 On what were its bases sunk,
or who laid its cornerstone,
7 when the morning stars sang together
and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
ESV

So there were sons of Adam shouting for joy when God laid the foundation of the earth?...

Quote

So there were sons of Adam shouting for joy when God laid the foundation of the earth?...

Interesting,who were they?

[BornAgain490]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

Why is 'Strange' used here, with a meaning of 2087 instead of 243 as you are putting forth? 

 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange (2087) flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

heteros other
of two: another, a second,
other, different, one's neighbor.

another - of a different kind, distinct in kind 

contrasted with 243 állos -another of the same kind

Also -  another of a different quality

 emphasizes it is qualitatively different from its counterpart 

and sometimes refers to "another" of a different class group or type



 

Strange (heteros) flesh" is understood to mean different from the norm, or different from what God has ordered, as in: adultery, pedophilia, beastiality, homosexuality, orgy-group sex. 

One must remember two things: (1)the men of Sodom and Gomorrah were judged before the angels showed up, and (2) the men of Sodom and Gomorrah had no idea the angels were in fact angels.

Other/otherwise (allos), used in 1 Timothy 5:25, refers to the distinction between men who are living Godly lives as opposed to them that aren't. 

[Bruce_Leiter]

Jayne, dear fellow Christian, I will answer your points, one by one:

(1) Notice the context of your Jude quote, and remember that context is very important in interpreting Scripture:

Jud 1:5  Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 
Jud 1:6  And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day— 
Jud 1:7  just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire. 
Jud 1:8  Yet in like manner these people also, relying on their dreams, defile the flesh, reject authority, and blaspheme the glorious ones (ESV). 

What was those angels' sin? Not sexual sin but rebellion--the sin described in verses 5 and, especially, verse 8--basically, self-centeredness.

(2) Please don't argue from the Scripture's silence, what Jesus didn't say.

(3) You're making assumptions about the purpose of God's plan, which is often hidden from us.

(4) You might do a word-study of the word "seed" in the KJV; it is roughly equivalent to the word "descendant," most obviously referring to Jesus as Adam's (Noah's, Abraham's) Seed, who was the only One who could defeat Satan.

This all being said, we discuss a very minor passage in Scripture that is hard to understand. I think that we can agree to disagree and learn better ways to interpret the Bible from each other. Your brother in Jesus' victory, Bruce_Leiter.

[DeighAnn]

7 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Strange (heteros) flesh" is understood to mean different from the norm, or different from what God has ordered, as in: adultery, pedophilia, beastiality, homosexuality, orgy-group sex. 

One must remember two things: (1)the men of Sodom and Gomorrah were judged before the angels showed up, and (2) the men of Sodom and Gomorrah had no idea the angels were in fact angels.

Other/otherwise (allos), used in 1 Timothy 5:25, refers to the distinction between men who are living Godly lives as opposed to them that aren't. 

is understood?  The question then becomes by whom and why?  Certainly not by and/or because of the actual words GOD used.  Why would God have created those two different words if He didn't intend for them to be taken in their respective ways.   Please go search the other words He used and see what comes forth of them.   

We have the sons of God coming on the daughters of men.  

We have children born of them that are called with a different name.

We have evil on the earth so bad God causes a flood.  

IF it were just a good vs evil kind of man, then the problem would never end and there would need be a flood every couple years.  



4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.


Why would 'believers' bare giants but non believers not?  There is no genetic difference to cause such things. 

 
18And it came to pass after this, that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob: then Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Saph, which was of the sons of the giant. 19And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam. 20And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant. 21And when he defied Israel, Jonathan the son of Shimea the brother of David slew him. 22These four were born to the giant in Gath, and fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants.

[BornAgain490]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

is understood?  The question then becomes by whom and why?  Certainly not by and/or because of the actual words GOD used.  Why would God have created those two different words if He didn't intend for them to be taken in their respective ways.   Please go search the other words He used and see what comes forth of them.   

We have the sons of God coming on the daughters of men.  

We have children born of them that are called with a different name.

We have evil on the earth so bad God causes a flood.  

IF it were just a good vs evil kind of man, then the problem would never end and there would need be a flood every couple years.  



4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.


Why would 'believers' bare giants but non believers not?  There is no genetic difference to cause such things. 

 
18And it came to pass after this, that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob: then Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Saph, which was of the sons of the giant. 19And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam. 20And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant. 21And when he defied Israel, Jonathan the son of Shimea the brother of David slew him. 22These four were born to the giant in Gath, and fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants.

I explained the difference between heteras and allos. Re-read what I wrote. 

Sons of God in Genesis 6 refers to men born in the line of Seth. Daughters of men refers to women born from the line of Cain. 

The children born of the sons of God and daughters of men are not the nephilm.  Read Gen. 6:4 and you'll see that nephilim were already on the earth before the so sons of God and daughters of man produced children.  Gen. 6:4. 

The children born to the sons of God and daughters of man were not nephilim, but were "mighty men" (haggibborim), warriors, princes, regular men nonetheless and not giants. Gen. 6:4. 

Genesis tells us God saw the wickedness and evil of man, not angels. Gen. 6:5. 

If fallen angels were the cause of all the evil, then why does God NOT determine it is time to destroy all the fallen angels?  He doesn't; there is not mention of God repenting that he had made angels; God determines to destroy man and all the animals on earth that take breath (all flesh),  Gen. 6:7, 12, 13, 17. 

Men did not stop being evil after the flood, but God made an everlasting covenant not to ever again destroy the earth with a flood. Gen. 9:11-15.  That is why there aren't floods after floods after floods of the entire earth.  But there is wickedness and evil continually among man.  

 

Edited September 16, 2024 by BornAgain490

[other one]

8 hours ago, angels4u said:

Interesting,who were they?

they were heavenly beings that were here when God made things.  Most people call them angels, however there are several kinds of beings we call angels or messengers.

[other one]

9 hours ago, angels4u said:

Th unseen real is amazing,I might listen to that again..

How are you and your wife doing?

For old folks, we are doing ok.   Her MS has slowed her down a lot.  It's affected her balance. She uses a walker at home, and when we are out and about, my arm.   Just touching something is ok.  We are going on a two week fishing trip wednesday and one day/night next week drive up to Branson Mo. and watch the sight and sound show "Ester".  Should be great.