Explaining the the Parenthetical Citation chapters in the Book of Revelation The Chronological Order of the book of Revelation

[JoeCanada]

47 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

You don't get what I am saying, if most of the Christians in the world believe in the pre trib. rapture, or last just say half of the 2 billion Christians (which would e 1 billion people) believe in it, then its can be no secret, that is not what the words written mean. It was a Secret to the Jews is what Paul is saying, of course after he REVEALS this MYSTERY (Secret heretofore by God's silence) it therefor ca never again be a secret. You just do nit think things through brother. So, if I reveal a secret mystery unto you and others is it still a secret? Paul's whole point was to say this was never a part of God's outreach to the Jews, because they are going to have a different course manly, except for the few in the Church, they will rule with Christ Jesus during the 1000 year kingdom age.

It looks like you don't read what I wrote.... or maybe you don't comprehend what I wrote.

So, this is what I wrote:

It's pre-trib that holds to a "secret" rapture. They often quote the "Lord comes like a thief in the night" passage to support their "secret rapture" theory. 

Do you see it now? Here it is again:

It's pre-trib that holds to a "secret" rapture.

And......

It's pre-trib that often quote the "Lord comes like a thief in the night" passage to support their "secret rapture" theory. 

Maybe you don't believe this but the majority of those who hold to a pre-trib rapture believe it will be a secret rapture and they use the "thief in the night" passage to support the "secret rapture" theory.

Okay? Is it clear to you now? This is a doctrine of the pre-trib camp!

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you're ready to continue on with my very first response, I'll ask the question in a different way....

                  Who was the Book of Revelation written for?

This should be easy for a guy who says he knows more about Revelation than anyone else.

[JoeCanada]

1 hour ago, TCC said:

So you would not see though a conflict with the two witnesses testifying of God during a time that God is sending a strong delusion? What would they be witnessing? That God in the background is good and holy WHILE He deludes most of the world with affirming them in their lack of repentance to see the AC as God? It just seems counterintuitive though to some degree, no perhaps? 

I believe that the two witnesses testify that God's coming judgment will be justified.

Just like Noah who preached and testified for 120 years that God's coming judgment  will be warranted on that sinful people.

Just like Moses and Aaron in Egypt. They testified that God's coming judgment will be justified and warranted.

So the two witnesses will testify and witness to the invading armies of the Antichrist, the Muslim nations. Then after 3 1/2 years they will be killed, and their bodies left in the street of Jerusalem for 3 1/2 days before God resurrects them.

This is verified by two things that is a custom of Islam. They kill the infidels and leave their bodies for all to see, in this case for 3 1/2 days ..... and they celebrate by sending gifts to each other which is a common practice of jihad.

So I don't see any of that happening in the first half of the 70th week.

[TCC]

10 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

I believe that the two witnesses testify that God's coming judgment will be justified.

Just like Noah who preached and testified for 120 years that God's coming judgment  will be warranted on that sinful people.

Just like Moses and Aaron in Egypt. They testified that God's coming judgment will be justified and warranted.

So the two witnesses will testify and witness to the invading armies of the Antichrist, the Muslim nations. Then after 3 1/2 years they will be killed, and their bodies left in the street of Jerusalem for 3 1/2 days before God resurrects them.

This is verified by two things that is a custom of Islam. They kill the infidels and leave their bodies for all to see, in this case for 3 1/2 days ..... and they celebrate by sending gifts to each other which is a common practice of jihad.

So I don't see any of that happening in the first half of the 70th week.

But perhaps at the midpoint? Very interesting details you shared about Islam. I appreciate that. Is there some reference you could share on that because that is quite a unique find brother :) 

What do you think brings 144k to repentance and be sealed prior to Trumpets? The two witnesses in the second half? Bllessings. 

[JoeCanada]

11 hours ago, TCC said:

But perhaps at the midpoint? Very interesting details you shared about Islam. I appreciate that. Is there some reference you could share on that because that is quite a unique find brother :) 

Here is one of many

“In Saudi Arabia, the practice of 'crucifixion' refers to the court-ordered public display of the body after execution, along with the separated head if beheaded. It takes place in a public square to allegedly act as a deterrent.”Aug 9, 2018

 

TheAtlantic.com>archive>saudi-crucifixion

[Revelation Man]

On 10/6/2024 at 10:20 PM, JoeCanada said:

I don't see the two witnesses ministry in the first half of the 70th week.

In Jesus's Olivet Discourse in Matt 24, He points out the AofD, (and we know from other scriptures that this occurs around the mid-point of the 70th week) standing in the holy place .....  then there will be great tribulation.

So it looks like the antichrist makes his debut around the midpoint and I'm guessing the false prophet will show up then as well. These two are Satan's counterfeit team. The antichrist will assume to be God and the false prophet will perform miracles to persuade people to believe in the AC.

God also has His team on the scene now... the two witnesses. They will perform (out-perform actually) miracles in response to the FP and AC. 

The trumpet judgments come towards the end of the 70th week and we know that the two witnesses are killed by the beast that comes out of the abyss at the 6th trumpet. For this reason alone the two witnesses ministry has to be in the second half of the week.

That's sort of how I see it in scripture. 

You see, when you are correct, I do not have a problem saying it, mostly here you are spot on, which surprises me because most people who can't see the pre trib. rapture, in my experiences are usually never close on other end time eschatology via my personal communications with them. Now, I might could have heard more from you over the years, but all you ever want to interject is you personal belief on the timing of the Rapture not being pre trib. in which you are of course wrong, so you never convey anything else whatsoever, and its been that way with you time and again. THIS THREAD is the proof, I write a tell all thread about the book of Revelation, its TIMING and what chapters are real time and which ones are parenthetical in nature, and you whole game is PRE TRIB. its amusing tbh that your mind gets stuck on ONE THOUGHT PROCESS over and over. 

TCC has the timing all wrong, but I was not going to keep hammering him about it, its just obvious that the Two-witnesses who pray down all the plagues have to mostly fulfill their 1260 days on the back side of the 70th week, BUT they do have to show up before the DOTL, that's why I contend they are the 1335 Blessing. He can not be close to being right, but I can just let him figure it out, I do not keep saying the same thing over and over like you do with the pre trib. rebuttal, thinking you are correct, when you are not. Its easy stuff to figure out honestly brother, the Pre Trib. has never been hard to understand. 

My biggest problem with you is you can't even see you are a one trick pony, and if you are going to be a one trick pony, at least be right on the subject, not wrong, as you are on the pre trib. stuff. 

As per me knowing more about the book of Revelation than anyone else. Reading my OP, if you even did, if all what I wrote is correct you would have to agree with my thesis because its so different from other peoples. Now, you believing I am correct or not has NO BEARING on the facts right? Because you nor I am God, His truth is His truth. You seemingly to me, can not get the simple things correct, yet want to try to tell me I am not hearing from the Lord God. Which just makes me SMH to be honest.

No one can  ever discuss anything with you about eschatology with your pre Trib. lecture, which you will find out very soon was in error. When you are Raptured Pre Trib. and then KNOW EVERYTHING in an instant its going to suddenly hit you, everything old Rev. Man said was correct, because I follow the Lord God, not other men. Everything you put forth came from other men, the whole 1800 schtick about the Rapture ideas coming forth at the time from some man I do not even know his name, you were taught that by OTHER MEN, not by the bible. Nowhere in the bible does it say the Church will be in the 70th week. That is just Satan confusing people.

I was in the Emergency Room Sunday, so if I have not been as cordial or as gentile as usual I am, sorry, but this same ole same ole for all these years makes no sense, the one thing you love to cling to you are in error on brother. That will be on you and no one else, because you have been told the facts over and over. 

Try to have more in your arsenal than an anti Pre Trib. Rebut.

[JoeCanada]

22 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I write a tell all thread about the book of Revelation, its TIMING and what chapters are real time and which ones are parenthetical in nature, and you whole game is PRE TRIB. its amusing tbh that your mind gets stuck on ONE THOUGHT PROCESS over and over. 

I did read your "tell all thread about the BofR", in it's entirety. And indeed, I have lots to comment on, some good but mostly not so good. 

But there is no point in taking it apart and commenting on it all, because you will only pick those rebuttals that you want to respond to and skip the rest.

Case in point:

I asked you about "to whom was the BofR written to... or... for? Remember???

Here is what I wrote from page 6.... "There is much to unpack in your interpretation of Revelation, but let's start with who Revelation was written to."

It would be real nice if you could just answer this one simple question:

                      "to whom was the BofR written to... or... for?"

If can answer this, then we can proceed to unpack your OP.... one thought at a time.

Keep it simple. Just a few lines would suffice.

 

[Revelation Man]

7 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Case in point:

I asked you about "to whom was the BofR written to... or... for? Remember???

Here is what I wrote from page 6.... "There is much to unpack in your interpretation of Revelation, but let's start with who Revelation was written to."

It would be real nice if you could just answer this one simple question:

                      "to whom was the BofR written to... or... for?"

If can answer this, then we can proceed to unpack your OP.... one thought at a time.

Keep it simple. Just a few lines would suffice.

I already answered, no need to rehash, your point is a non point. The first part of Revelation is as I describe, about Jesus the Eternal Lord in chapter 1 and about the 7 Churches (7 types through all the Church Age) and that is where the Churches mentions in the book of Revelation is finished, except for when we are seen in rare flashes up to heaven in the rest of the chapters. Its beyond comprehension how anyone can ever argue that Rev. 4 & 5 is not the Church in Heaven as Jesus is opening up the Seals, (which do nothing, they are just a SEAL on God's Wrath to come via the Trumps)

Lets see if you ignore this as you have before, which destroys anything but a pre trib rapture. From my perspective, for some reason, your whole eschatological thesis hinges on a bad understanding put forth by men from long ago. 

Rev. 2:10 says those who are faithful UNTO DEATH (means they are dead) will be given a CROWN of Life. Rev. 4:5 says he that OVERCOMES (Means its OVER) I will give White Raiment (Robes) and finally vs. 21 says he that OVERCOMES will sit at my THRONE. 

So, what does Rev. 4:1 say? Jesus blows the Trump...the Last Trump meaning the Harvest Season has ended do you get that it HAS TO BE before the 70th week because of that very Feasts timing? if you understand the 7 Feasts you will grasp its timing? Because the Trumps, Atonement of Israel and Tabernacles (Jesus returning to dwell with Israel for a 1000 year Kingdom Age all must follow later on). So, the Rapture is seen in Rev. 4:1 then we see the Church IN HEAVEN, before any SEAL has ever been broken in Rev. 4:4 !!

TBH, anyone who can not get this is just in denial imho.

Rev. 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

So, why do you think God gave us Rev. 2:10, Rev. 3:5 and Rev. 3:21? Those who DIE will get CROWNS those who OVERCOME will get White Raiment and those who OVERCOME will sit at my THRONE. Now we see the 24 Elders sitting at God's throne, who do you think they are in this majestic book of riddles, clues, metaphors and codes? Its too obvious !! Rev. 1:6 and a Rev. 5:9-10 give us the overall answer, but one still has to go back to 1 Chronicles 24 to tie it all together, its what I do !! I do not just a guess brother, I put in the hard grunt work because Jesus died for us.

In Rev. 1:6 Jesus calls us all Kings and Priests unto our God. Then in Rev. 5:9-10 we get this: 

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

So, if this is not THE CHURCH who is it my brother? Put down any preconceived notions and the facts all point one way. Why did God tag us with the 24 Elders? Well, this is an encoded book, and in 1 Chronicles 24 (go read it) we see that the 24 Orders of the Priesthood are named there.......God calls us Kings and Priests, there are 24 Orders of the Priesthood so God encodes us with the name 24 Elders!! Everything with God always matches and comes full circle if we search it out. We have been REDEEMED by his Blood in Rev. 5:9-10, AND we come from EVERY NATION in the whole world, that can only be the Church. You take all this info I have given you before and you just go away and do not reply because you can not overcome it, just admit the Church is raptured Pre Trib. brother, that solves it all. Your whole point was trying to get me to admit the book of Revelation was written to the 7 Churches, of course it was, so we could forewarn about the coming wrath of God which we will NOT BE A PART OF !! Then the 70th week on sees the Church IN HEAVEN, in Rev. 4 & 5, in Rev. 7:9-16 and in Rev. 19 where we both Marry the Lamb then RETURN with the Lamb to fight alongside Jesus at Armageddon. (The Marriage Supper). 

So, if you still want to argue the Church is not in Heaven pre 70th week you just do not want to know the facts on this brother, meaning you are too entrenched.

Edited October 10, 2024 by Revelation Man

[JoeCanada]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

The first part of Revelation is as I describe, about Jesus the Eternal Lord in chapter 1 and about the 7 Churches (7 types through all the Church Age) and that is where the Churches mention in the book of Revelation is finished

Well, you have sort of answered my  question about "to whom is the BofR written to/for".

I say sort of because I asked specifically "to whom" and your answer is ... "the first chapter is "about the 7 churches."

Well, you are wrong.

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond servants..."

It can't get any clearer. 

God gave the Revelation to Jesus to show to His bond servants.

Now I know you have a problem with "bond servants" because it is only in a few versions of Bibles. That's true.

The rest use "servants" or "slaves" or "bondmen".

They are all basically the same. They are all servants to our Lord, bought with His blood, and are His slaves, His believers.  They are His church.

But it doesn't end after the first verse, as you put it ..."and that is where the Churches mention in the book of Revelation is finished"

If you look all the way to the end of Revelation, chapter 22:16, Jesus says:

    "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches..."

Revelation starts by saying that it's for the churches, His servants .... and it ends by Jesus saying that "these things are for the churches."

"These things are for the churches"....... what things? 

Everything that is written in the Book of Revelation pertains to the church!

Period!

And if you deny it, well my brother, that's a really big problem.

 

 

 

[JoeCanada]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

the coming wrath of God which we will NOT BE A PART OF

I couldn't agree more. Yes indeed, we will not be part of God's wrath.

See, there is something we agree on. :)

[Revelation Man]

48 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

Well, you have sort of answered my  question about "to whom is the BofR written to/for".

I say sort of because I asked specifically "to whom" and your answer is ... "the first chapter is "about the 7 churches."

No, my answer was the first chapter is about the Eternal Majesty of Jesus, then I  stated the 7 Churches are next, I should not have to say in chapters 2 & 3 because that is a foregone conclusion, besides there were no chapters in the original version right? This is my point, why obfuscate about a NON POINT? It makes no sense to waste that rebut, its funny, I always reread just before I read a reply, and fix a few typos, and I said to myself, even though its a non point I bet he tries to make hay out of that non point, its a non point because there were no chapters in the BoR, so we just wasted time with this bit hey?

2 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond servants..."

It can't get any clearer. 

God gave the Revelation to Jesus to show to His bond servants.

Now I know you have a problem with "bond servants" because it is only in a few versions of Bibles. That's true.

The rest use "servants" or "slaves" or "bondmen".

I could care less what you call them tbh, call then that, the Church, the Bride, the Concrete, only you get lost in the weed I don't, and its because you can not argue the facts so you chooses to obfuscate and dodge. 

Those in Rev. 2 and 3 are ALL THOSE ABOVE HAPPY? And they can be seen in Heaven JUST AS I PROVED in Rev. 4 & 5 the points you just dodged again because you can not rebut brother. 

Again, dodge, didge dodge. I overcome your thesis too easily, and now you know why I quit replying to you in general  you get defeated on a debate and you refuse to answer the points and you obfuscate. So, why waste my time answering you on anything? Right. You can never overcome my points so you just play like they do not exist I guess. Meaning, you lose the debate, in any debate of you refuse to answer the points you auto lose the debate.

2 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

I couldn't agree more. Yes indeed, we will not be part of God's wrath.

See, there is something we agree on. :)

And the Wrath comes in  the Middle of the week, at the 1260, the Church is seen IN HEAVEN in Rev. 4:4 and in Rev. 5:9-10, YOU KNOW THIS, and can not overcome it, so you just play dodge ball on these points brother. 

What do you think the Fulness of the Gentiles mean? THINK, in Rom. 9-11 over and over we see Paul talking about SERVICE unto God and why God has not completely forsaken Israel, but He has forsaken them at this time, then he gives examples of (THINK NOW) Service unto God and why God chooses as He does. He chose to HARDEN Pharaoh's heart, He chose Jacob over Esau in the womb before either had lived, God was called the Potter who created the vase He so pleases, etc. etc. then when we get to Rom. 11 Paul says God is not finished with Israel, and that ALL Israel (Israel as a nation) will be saved, but here was THE MYSTERY of it all. 

 

Rom. 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles [SERVICE] be come in.

So, do you not understand what this is saying brother? Israel, because the sinned against God and rejected God the Redeemer (Jesus) were forsaken by God (He rent the temple meaning He left them for Dead Men's Bones until the end times when God would choose to REVIVE those bones once again, but not because of FAITH, but because of His mercy, and His Promise to Abraham). Thus God BLINDED Israel IN PART (meaning that Jews could still come unto God as INDIVIDUALS, but not as a nation, BECAUSE God decided to send them all over the world via the Diaspora). So, Jews could still come unto Christ BUT...Israel (get this now) CAN NOT REPENT (are yet blinded) until the Fulness of the Gentiles SERVICE unto God (Church Age) is COME FULL !! We can not be on this earth when the 70th week starts. The Feast of Trump ENDS the Harvest, the Church Age is the Harvesting of souls, Jesus fulfills EVERY FEAST !! He is now fulfilling the the Summer Harvest or Feast of weeks, which MUST END with the Feast of Trumps. And that HAS TO HAPPEN before the Feast of Atonement (Israel Repents) It all fits brother, but you do not want to see it.

The 7 Feast as practiced 3500 years ago by Israel, these were known as Holy Convocations (Dress Rehearsals) They had no clue what these Feasts even meant, but we now can understand looking back Jesus the Messiah must fulfill all 7 him self.

Spring Feasts Jesus has already fulfilled

1.) Feast of Passover (Jesus' blood covers all men's sins)

2.) Feast of Unleavened Bread (Jesus knew NO SIN, he was thus unleavened)

3.) Feast of First-fruits (Jesus was the First-fruits of the grave)

The ONE FEAST not associated with Israel per se on God's timeline is the Feast of weeks, now it is in that Jewish men started the Church and Jesus is the Head of the Church, our High Priest in Heaven, we are his body, Harvesting Souls for God and Jesus the Redeemer by way of the Holy Spirit. 

4.) Feast of Weeks/Pentecost/Summer Harvest/Church Age (We have a SET TIME to bring in the Harvest, it is called the Church Age, at the Feast of Trumps our time will be finished, the Fulness of the Gentiles service is over and then immediately afterwards the 70th week starts again, at the Last Trump, we are taken to be with the Lord AND Israel's 70th week starts. Jesus is still NOW FULFILLING this Feast of Weeks/Sumer Harvest (Notice its ALL ALONE on the calendar, as is the Church Age's Gentile Servitude unto God) as we speak, but when he calls the Church Home (see Rev. 4:1) he SOUNDS AS A TRUMP !! I won der why? Because its the Last Trump, the 100th Trump of the Feast which always ENDED the Harvest !! So, lets see below how that comes to pass.

The Fall Feasts Jesus will Fulfill very soon

5.) Feast of Trumps (So, why did Jesus say no man can know the day nor hour? He was giving his disciples a understanding that they could digest, so can we if we DIG DEEP, which is my job. They knew the Feast of Trumps could only happen once the New Moon came in, you see these Feasts are all on  God Time via a Lunar Moon Cycle, so since a New Moon might come in just before Sundown, Just after (2 days there) or just after sundown the next day (3 days) NO MAN could know the exact say nor hour, but they could know THE SEASON and could watch. So, they sent two men into the hills into spy out this New Moon, as soon as it came in, they sent word back to the Jewish leaders and they commenced to blowing the Shofar/Trumps. They blew them in 9 sets of 11 or 99 times, then on the LAST TRUMP, (the 100th Trump) the Harvest (Think Church Age) season was officially ended. Likewise as Rev. 4:1 CLEARLY SHOWS Jesus will end the Church Age by calling us home, this ENDS  the Harvest season or Church Age Gentile led Season of the Church.  It thus kicks of the 70th week, the Fulness of the Gentiles SERVICE brings the start of the 70th week that sees Israel ATONE just before God's Wrath falls, as both Malachi 4:5-6 (Elijah is sent back BEFORE the DOTL) and Zech. 13:8-9 where 1/s repents and then as seen in Zech. 14:1, where the DOTL Arrives. So, Israel repents JUST BEFORE God's Wrath falls at the 1260. 

6.) Feast of Atonement (Israel MUST REPENT before the 70th week can end, Jesus blood makes this possible, read Zech. 13:1-5 a FOUTAIN is OPENED unto the children of Israel, that CLEANSES them, and that fountain is Jesus' blood)

7.) Feast of Tabernacles (to TABERNACLE means to Dwell with God. Well, Jesus of course fulfills tis ONE LAST Feast by ruling from Jerusalem via the 1000 year Kingdom Age, thus Jesus tabernacles or dwell with Israel.)

 

So, Jesus fulfills all 7 Feasts, and the Gentile Church Age has to COME FULL before the 70th week starts. Then  Israel will repent before the 70th week ends. Each Beast mention, in Dan. 7 and Dan. 2 can be a FULL PICTURE by taking out the Church Age. That is why on a map, the old Roman Empire will be the E.U. who then conquers the whole Mediterranean Sea Region as Dan. 11:40-43 describes, and both will look like Father and son. Likewise, the Statue has legs of Iron THEN Feet and toes of IRON & CLAY. Meaning many factions/Seeds or Nations now trying to be ONE NATION, and the Land Mass will be the same as before Rome fell (received the Mortal Wound from the Church)

The Roman Empire

 

 

 

 

Now lets look at the European Neighborhood Policy a REAL AGREEMENT that has run 7 years cycles. Once the E.U. Conquers all these nations as Dan. 11:40-43 shows us they will, it will loo EXACTLY like the Old Roman Empire !!

 

 

 

Turkey is conquered also, as Dan . 8:9 clearly shows, so he goes through NATIONS to get at Israel (Dan. 11:40-43) (Turkey,  Lebanon, Jordan and Syria) then he conquers Israel, then ALL of North Africa !! Take out the Church Age and God is telling us, the 70th week is at hand, God PUT IT OFF and sent the Gentiles to Evangelize the whole world, now Israel's 70th week must needs be fulfilled as God has promised in His prophetic prophets. And we see the exact same LAND MASS as Israel were facing in AD 70, again coming after Israel, thus they received the MORTAL WOUND and then the Anti-Christ will HEAL that Mortal Wound by conquering Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region. 

This has been my calling for 40 years, I am not just guessing brother. When you get to heaven you are going to instantly understand Rev. Man was spot on. Sometimes it better to listen, I did a lot of that for 30 years but the one thing I knew do is run with something with the holy spirits approval and say this is of God. The truth is, most people have no clue about the book of Revelation even these big time preachers.