What is the charismatic movement?

[Deborah_]

4 hours ago, Tristen said:

I can't ever remember seeing "anointing oil" at a public church service - though I have seen it in other contexts.

I've seen the use of anointing oil in a public service many times - and not only in "charismatic" churches. When I had breast cancer, I was anointed with oil by an Anglican bishop at a 'high' C of E church (not my own church; I was there for my daughter's confirmation service). 

[Deborah_]

11 hours ago, NConly said:

At Pentecost The Bible leads one to believe the tongues were other languages from other countries being heard and understood.

There are instances of this in modern times as well. My husband once met a Catholic priest who told him this story:

The priest had been working for a Catholic mission in Belgium with a younger colleague. One day they heard the sound of a crash in the street outside their office and went to investigate. A young man (quite dark in appearance - not northern European) had come off a motorcycle and was lying in the road, apparently unconscious. Apart from putting him in the recovery position, there wasn't much they could do, but while they were waiting for the ambulance to arrive, they prayed for him  - and the priest's colleague prayed briefly in a language that neither of them understood.

The next day they went to the hospital to find out how he was - and found him sitting up in bed, obviously making a rapid recovery. They introduced themselves in French, but after just a few words he cut them off, saying, "Why are you speaking to me in French today? Yesterday you spoke fluent Turkish!" What had they said, they asked. 

"You told me that Jesus loved me and was looking after me, and I would be OK."

[Neighbor]

14 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Also, anointing the sick with oil is often part of the worship service. These are the primary reasons for the movement’s growth and popularity. While growth and popularity are certainly desirable, they cannot be used as a test for truth.

From a source and resource not in the least bit Charsimatic:

The following is an excerpt from The MacArthur New Testament Commentary on James 5:14.

 

Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; (5:14)Here is the most misunderstood and disputed portion of this passage. At first glance it appears to be teaching that sick believers can expect physical healing through the prayers of the elders. But such an interpretation is out of harmony with the context. And as noted in the previous point, the suffering James has in view is evil treatment, not physical illness.

It is true that, apart from the present verse, astheneo is translated sick eighteen times in the New Testament (e.g., Matt. 10:8; 25:36, 39; Mark 6:56; Luke 4:40; John 4:46; Acts 9:37). But it is also used fourteen times to refer to emotional or spiritual weakness (Acts 20:35; Rom. 4:19; 8:3; 14:1–2; 1 Cor. 8:11–12; 2 Cor. 11:21, 29; 12:10; 13:3–4, 9). Significantly, in all but three (Phil. 2:26–27; 2 Tim. 4:20) of astheneo’s appearances in the epistles it does not refer to physical sickness. Paul’s use of astheneo in 2 Corinthians 12:10 is especially noteworthy, since it there describes weakness produced by the sufferings of life—in a similar context as its usage in the present verse.

Translating astheneo “weak” here in keeping with its predominant usage in the epistles allows us to view this verse in a different light. James moves beyond the suffering believers of the previous point to address specifically those who have become weak by that suffering. The weak are those who have been defeated in the spiritual battle, who have lost the ability to endure their suffering. They are the fallen spiritual warriors, the exhausted, weary, depressed, defeated Christians. They have tried to draw on God’s power through prayer, but have lost motivation, even falling into sinful attitudes. Having hit bottom, they are not able to pray effectively on their own. In that condition, the spiritually weak need the help of the spiritually strong (cf. 1 Thess. 5:14).

That help, James says, is to be found in the elders of the church. They are the spiritually strong, the spiritually mature, the spiritually victorious. Weak, defeated believers are to go to them and draw on their strength. They are to call (from proskaleo, “to call alongside”) the elders to come and lift them up. It is the same thought that the apostle Paul expressed in Galatians 6:1: “Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness.” The wounded, exhausted, broken sheep are to go to their shepherds, who will intercede for them and ask God for renewed spiritual strength on their behalf.

This is an important—and largely neglected—ministry of the church’s pastors and elders. The apostles acknowledged its priority when they said, “We will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word” (Acts 6:4). But in today’s church, weak, struggling believers are often handed over to so-called expert professional counselors—who often have little power in prayer. Those who have been defeated in the spiritual battle do not need to hear opinions of human wisdom; they need to be strengthened by the power of God through their leaders’ prayers.

The anointing with oil in the name of the Lord done by the elders is not a reference to some symbolic ceremony. Aleipho (the root form of the verb translated anointing) is not used in the New Testament to refer to a ceremonial anointing. Noted Greek scholar A. T. Robertson comments, “It is by no means certain that aleipho here … means ‘anoint’ in a ceremonial fashion rather than ‘rub’ as it commonly does in medical treatises” (Word Pictures in the New Testament [reprint, 1933; Grand Rapids: Baker, n.d.], 6:65). Richard C. Trench agrees: “[aleipho] is the mundane and profane, [chrio] the sacred and religious, word” (Synonyms of the New Testament [Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1983], 136–37). Aleipho in the New Testament describes anointing one’s head with oil (Matt. 6:17; cf. Luke 7:46), the women’s anointing of Jesus’ body (Mark 16:1), Mary’s anointing of the Lord’s feet (John 11:2; 12:3), and anointing the sick with oil (Mark 6:13). Perhaps the best way to translate the phrase would be “rubbing him with oil in the name of the Lord”; it literally reads “after having oiled him.”

It may well have been that the elders literally rubbed oil on believers who had suffered physical injuries to their bodies from the persecution (cf. Luke 10:34). Medical science was certainly in a primitive state and there were few trustworthy doctors. It would have been a gracious, kind act on the part of the elders to rub oil on the wounds of those who had been beaten, or into the sore muscles of those made to work long hours under harsh treatment.

Metaphorically, the elders’ anointing of weak, defeated believers with oil conveys the responsibility for elders to stimulate, encourage, strengthen, and refresh (cf. Luke 7:46) these people. Speaking of Israel, Isaiah wrote, “From the sole of the foot even to the head there is nothing sound in it, only bruises, welts and raw wounds, not pressed out or bandaged, nor softened with oil” (Isa. 1:6). Lacking godly leaders, the people of the nation had not had their spiritual wounds treated. David expressed God’s gracious, compassionate, spiritual restoration of him in these familiar words: “You have anointed my head with oil” (Ps. 23:5).
The elders’ ministry of intercession and restoration is to be done in the name of the Lord. Any truly biblical encouragement must be consistent with who God is (which is what His name represents). To do something in the name of Christ is to do what He would have done in the situation; to pray in the name of Christ is to ask what He would want; to minister in the name of Christ is to serve others on His behalf (cf. John 14:13–14).

[Tristen]

1 hour ago, Deborah_ said:

I've seen the use of anointing oil in a public service many times - and not only in "charismatic" churches. When I had breast cancer, I was anointed with oil by an Anglican bishop at a 'high' C of E church (not my own church; I was there for my daughter's confirmation service). 

Thank you for sharing your experience. I have seen anointing oil used by Christians many times. I just don't personally remember ever seeing it being used in a public service.

Therefore, the point of my comment is that the use of anointing oil is not an exclusive, defining characteristic of being Charismatic (which was insinuated in the OP quote). Your experience confirms that the use of anointing oil is common across many shades of Christianity (and therefore not specific to Charismatic ministries).

 

[Cyoder]

They lose me with the speaking in tongues.  My neighbor's parents were into that.  Their daughter told us they would just make weird sounds, and someone would "interpret" the "language".  From my understanding of the Bible, speaking in tongues meant, speaking in actual languages without knowing them.  This makes a lot of sense.  If you were preaching the gospel in some foreign land, you would need to speak their language.  This would be useful and miraculous.  Imagine a man who looks and dresses nothing like you but can fluently speak your language back in those times.  It would have given glory to God.  Mumbling incomprehensible noises that supposedly nobody can understand but your pastor, seems suspicious to say the least and doesn't make sense to me that it would be useful in getting people to believe.  In my opinion, I don't think it's Biblical. 

[Neighbor]

When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.  And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them.  And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.   

And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language.  Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans?  And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born?

[Neighbor]

Seems to me that at Pentecost  there were at least two different happenings occurring, there was speaking in other tongues (language not known to the speaker of them) plus there was hearing of other tongues  ( One's not known to the hearer of them) as though it were one's native tongue.

That to me is a different experience from what Paul describes in his letter: ..."Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.  For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.  But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.  He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.  I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification."

 

"I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied" All and even more so that all prophesize. - Paul, in his letter to whom?  When?

[Cntrysner]

 If an interpreter is required it is not true Pentecostal tongues, they all heard the words spoken in their own language.   

[In the Clouds]

2 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Seems to me that at Pentecost  there were at least two different happenings occurring, there was speaking in other tongues (language not known to the speaker of them) plus there was hearing of other tongues  ( One's not known to the hearer of them) as though it were one's native tongue.

That to me is a different experience from what Paul describes in his letter: ..."Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.  For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.  But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.  He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.  I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification."

 

"I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied" All and even more so that all prophesize. - Paul, in his letter to whom?  When?

The Jewish Star of David is a good example of God's children reaching up to Him and His reaching down to us.  It's the same with the manifestations of tongues and prophecy.

[missmuffet]

8 hours ago, Neighbor said:

From a source and resource not in the least bit Charsimatic:

The following is an excerpt from The MacArthur New Testament Commentary on James 5:14.

 

Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; (5:14)Here is the most misunderstood and disputed portion of this passage. At first glance it appears to be teaching that sick believers can expect physical healing through the prayers of the elders. But such an interpretation is out of harmony with the context. And as noted in the previous point, the suffering James has in view is evil treatment, not physical illness.

It is true that, apart from the present verse, astheneo is translated sick eighteen times in the New Testament (e.g., Matt. 10:8; 25:36, 39; Mark 6:56; Luke 4:40; John 4:46; Acts 9:37). But it is also used fourteen times to refer to emotional or spiritual weakness (Acts 20:35; Rom. 4:19; 8:3; 14:1–2; 1 Cor. 8:11–12; 2 Cor. 11:21, 29; 12:10; 13:3–4, 9). Significantly, in all but three (Phil. 2:26–27; 2 Tim. 4:20) of astheneo’s appearances in the epistles it does not refer to physical sickness. Paul’s use of astheneo in 2 Corinthians 12:10 is especially noteworthy, since it there describes weakness produced by the sufferings of life—in a similar context as its usage in the present verse.

Translating astheneo “weak” here in keeping with its predominant usage in the epistles allows us to view this verse in a different light. James moves beyond the suffering believers of the previous point to address specifically those who have become weak by that suffering. The weak are those who have been defeated in the spiritual battle, who have lost the ability to endure their suffering. They are the fallen spiritual warriors, the exhausted, weary, depressed, defeated Christians. They have tried to draw on God’s power through prayer, but have lost motivation, even falling into sinful attitudes. Having hit bottom, they are not able to pray effectively on their own. In that condition, the spiritually weak need the help of the spiritually strong (cf. 1 Thess. 5:14).

That help, James says, is to be found in the elders of the church. They are the spiritually strong, the spiritually mature, the spiritually victorious. Weak, defeated believers are to go to them and draw on their strength. They are to call (from proskaleo, “to call alongside”) the elders to come and lift them up. It is the same thought that the apostle Paul expressed in Galatians 6:1: “Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness.” The wounded, exhausted, broken sheep are to go to their shepherds, who will intercede for them and ask God for renewed spiritual strength on their behalf.

This is an important—and largely neglected—ministry of the church’s pastors and elders. The apostles acknowledged its priority when they said, “We will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word” (Acts 6:4). But in today’s church, weak, struggling believers are often handed over to so-called expert professional counselors—who often have little power in prayer. Those who have been defeated in the spiritual battle do not need to hear opinions of human wisdom; they need to be strengthened by the power of God through their leaders’ prayers.

The anointing with oil in the name of the Lord done by the elders is not a reference to some symbolic ceremony. Aleipho (the root form of the verb translated anointing) is not used in the New Testament to refer to a ceremonial anointing. Noted Greek scholar A. T. Robertson comments, “It is by no means certain that aleipho here … means ‘anoint’ in a ceremonial fashion rather than ‘rub’ as it commonly does in medical treatises” (Word Pictures in the New Testament [reprint, 1933; Grand Rapids: Baker, n.d.], 6:65). Richard C. Trench agrees: “[aleipho] is the mundane and profane, [chrio] the sacred and religious, word” (Synonyms of the New Testament [Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1983], 136–37). Aleipho in the New Testament describes anointing one’s head with oil (Matt. 6:17; cf. Luke 7:46), the women’s anointing of Jesus’ body (Mark 16:1), Mary’s anointing of the Lord’s feet (John 11:2; 12:3), and anointing the sick with oil (Mark 6:13). Perhaps the best way to translate the phrase would be “rubbing him with oil in the name of the Lord”; it literally reads “after having oiled him.”

It may well have been that the elders literally rubbed oil on believers who had suffered physical injuries to their bodies from the persecution (cf. Luke 10:34). Medical science was certainly in a primitive state and there were few trustworthy doctors. It would have been a gracious, kind act on the part of the elders to rub oil on the wounds of those who had been beaten, or into the sore muscles of those made to work long hours under harsh treatment.

Metaphorically, the elders’ anointing of weak, defeated believers with oil conveys the responsibility for elders to stimulate, encourage, strengthen, and refresh (cf. Luke 7:46) these people. Speaking of Israel, Isaiah wrote, “From the sole of the foot even to the head there is nothing sound in it, only bruises, welts and raw wounds, not pressed out or bandaged, nor softened with oil” (Isa. 1:6). Lacking godly leaders, the people of the nation had not had their spiritual wounds treated. David expressed God’s gracious, compassionate, spiritual restoration of him in these familiar words: “You have anointed my head with oil” (Ps. 23:5).
The elders’ ministry of intercession and restoration is to be done in the name of the Lord. Any truly biblical encouragement must be consistent with who God is (which is what His name represents). To do something in the name of Christ is to do what He would have done in the situation; to pray in the name of Christ is to ask what He would want; to minister in the name of Christ is to serve others on His behalf (cf. John 14:13–14).

I don't support MacArthur's ministry. He is good with prophecy but I have seen some things he has said that puts up red flags.