Differences between Rapture and 2nd Coming

[Retrobyter]

On 11/20/2024 at 3:16 PM, WilliamL said:

...

Paul summed up his 2 Cor. 5:1ff. teaching with these words:

2 Cor. 5:8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

Philippians 1:23 For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better.

Shalom, @WilliamL.

Here's a couple more thoughts:

FIRST: The reference to "the body" was actually found first in the previous chapter:

2 Corinthians 4:10 (KJV)

10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the lifealso of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

This is revealing in its tenses and number! Here's the Greek of this verse:

10 Πάντοτε τὴν νέκρωσιν τοῦ Κυρίου Ἰησοῦ ἐν τῷ σώματι περιφέροντες ἵνα καὶ ἡ ζωὴ τοῦ Ἰησοῦ ἐν τῷ σώματι ἡμῶν φανερωθῇ.

This transliterates to English characters as ...

10 Pantote teen nekroosin tou Kuriou Ieesou en too soomati periferontes hina kai hee zooee tou Ieesou en too soomati heemoon faneroothee.

And, this translates into English word-for-word as ...

10 Always the death of-the Lord Yeeshuwa` in the body carrying-around so-that also the life of-the Yeeshuwa` in the body of-us might-be-made-manifest.

What's curious about this verse is that "the body" (too soomati) is a neuter SINGULAR noun in the dative case, but "of-us" or "our" (heemoon) is a 1st-person PLURAL pronoun in the genitive case! So, this "body" is a singular body possessed by more than one person! I believe this is referring to the "body of Christ," or the "church" right there at Korinth!

So, in the next chapter, "to be absent from the body" would mean "to be absent from the body of Christ" or "to be absent from the church!"

SECOND: One should consider Yeeshuwa`s argumentation with the Saduccees when they presented a sheilah (a puzzle) to the Lord:

Matthew 22:23-33 (KJV)

23 The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him, 24 Saying,

"Master, Moses said, 'If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.' 25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother: 26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh. 27 And last of all the woman died also. 28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her."

29 Jesus answered and said unto them,

"Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. 31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? God is not the God of the dead, but OF THE LIVING!"

33 And when the multitude heard [this], they were astonished at his doctrine.

Now, pay close attention to the response and how Yeeshuwa` reasoned that they were in error. He was not saying that ''AVraham, Yitschaq, and Ya`aqoV" ("Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob") were already living in Heaven; He was arguing for a FUTURE RESURRECTION! THAT'S how "God is the God of the LIVING when "they neither marry, nor are given in marriage!"

[Diaste]

On 11/24/2024 at 4:51 PM, Retrobyter said:

I'm in COMPLETE agreement with Ezekiel 18! How do you think it is otherwise? And, no, earthly kings rule at their OWN pleasure! If the earthly king has taken to himself power to subject the people over which he rules, then he has subjugated the people and the king's word will be ignored at the peril of the one who ignored it! His life will be FORFEIT!

A simple example is the election process in the USA. If a candidate wins the electoral vote it's because the people agreed with the candidates policies. The dark horse in the race to the seat of power cannot on a whim usurp the winning candidate. 

Further, the people en masse swept Mao, Lenin, Hitler and many others to power. None of them waltzed into Parliament and announced they were the new leader of the nation by virtue of there mere existence, they required the will of the people, every time. Not even African warlords can take power without a significant number of people behind their cause. 

On 11/24/2024 at 4:51 PM, Retrobyter said:

I will say thank you for reminding me that "the SOUL that sinneth it shall die!" Based on the modern definition of "soul," how is it possible for the "soul" to die (other than the Second Death, of course)? In Ezekiel 18, the deaths there are NORMAL deaths of people who have committed crimes worthy of death!

You miss the point. It's the individual soul that dies for the sins of that same individual. Whole nations don't die for the sins of one person, king or pauper. 

Maybe you can find me a verse that states, "The whole nation will die eternal death because the king is a naughty, naughty boy."

[WilliamL]

On 11/23/2024 at 4:50 PM, Retrobyter said:

It's in the text. One can choose to see it or ignore it, but it's there. And all that an "aggelos" (transliterated as "angel") means is "a MESSENGER!" That's what the word MEANS! Some "aggeloi" - "messengers" - are supernatural, but many, like the prophets of God, are HUMAN! Do HUMANS "imply?" One could bet on it as a sure thing!

When heavenly angels and earthly humans act as messengers of God's words, they do not imply anything, they merely transmit God's message.

On 11/23/2024 at 4:50 PM, Retrobyter said:

Neither Yeeshuwa` nor Paul taught about "pre-resurrected people going to heaven after death."

For you to write these words directly below these scriptures I posted --

2 Cor. 5:8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

Philippians 1:23 For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better.

-- only shows the depth of your willful blindness. Christ the Lord was, and still is, in heaven when Paul wrote these things.

 

 

[WilliamL]

On 11/24/2024 at 9:39 PM, Retrobyter said:

Now, pay close attention to the response and how Yeeshuwa` reasoned that they were in error. He was not saying that ''AVraham, Yitschaq, and Ya`aqoV" ("Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob") were already living in Heaven...

True, they were not yet living in heaven, because at this time Christ's atoning death had not yet taken place. So they were still in the Paradise part of Sheol.

Once Jesus' blood had been offered in the heavenly sanctuary per Hebrews 9:12, Sheol was emptied of the righteous, and heaven was opened to them.

[DeighAnn]

please forgive ALL THE CAPITOLS and spelling mistakes and punctuation errors...and feel free to GIVE any SCRIPTURE that comes into conflict as I am writing this once and not going back to check it for mistakes unless someone gives some Scripture showing something cannot be true or when I find something when I go back to give Scripture to all the points given.   I simply can't follow all the different lines of thought here.

Again, I plan on going back and giving all the verses that show in GODS own WORDS (and not in my own), why THIS is the way I believe.  Just trying to keep posts short  


ALL die when Christ returns.

No natural bodies go into the Millennium
all are in spiritual bodies, some just facing the 2nd death


Come to 'life' is about an eternal
SPIRITUAL life, not about a flesh and blood body being 'born again' from the decay, THOSE KINDS of BODIES could NEVER COME BEFORE THE LORD

HOW is it possible for A CHILD to be 100 years old in a flesh and blood body??????  It isn't, everyone knows it.  And some it will take A LONG TIME to 'change' like we did when we were 'baptized', dying to this world and being born into HIS KINGDOM...


THE SUBJECT in 1 Thes 4 seems to HARD TO FOLLOW, hence 2 Thess with the correction and THE ORDER OF EVENTS
aka when YE SHALL SEE, not when THEY shall see.  Matt 24, the DISCIPLES come to HIM PRIVATELY.  Mark 13, His come to Him PRIVATELY.  Are we disciples/followers of Christ?  IF so, then the MESSAGE IS TO US and not to 'them or those never written of 'trib saints' 

YES, THE CHURCH will go through the trib of Satan, because WE ARE NOT GATHERED UNTIL AFTER THE WORKINGS OF SATAN.  If you believe anything OTHER than that you are under a STRONG DELUSION and are perpetuating FALSE TEACHINGS.  Rebuking all those who do.    


THE DEAD don't prevent the living AKA those who go to hell and rise when Christ returns DON'T have ANY BEARING on our 'following Him' to be where He is and returning WITH HIM. 

The army that returns WITH HIM sit upon the thrones and those who are raptured/caught up in the AIR (do a really deep study on that word and FIND what is being hidden)  at His return JOIN UP WITH THEM. 

Christ is RETURNING once enemies are made HIS FOOT STOOL and NOT A SECOND BEFORE AKA THERE is NO option in the word of God for Him to LEAVE AND DO ANYTHING.  When HE leaves it is a LORD OF LORDS AND KING OF KINGS. 

Just as the living who come to belief NEVER DIE, the dead who come to life HAVE TO GET THEIR NAMES IN THE BOOK OF LIFE DURING the Lords Day/the Millennium/the 1000 years SATAN is in the abyss before he is loosed a short time.  WHY is he loosed?  To see if he can DECEIVE 'the dead' that rose when Christ returned, just like the last generation of this age will have to NOT BE DECEIVED, not go after when they hear 'yo there is Christ or here is Christ' aka the RAPTURE THEORY that is for those who SEEK TO SAVE THEIR LIVES and so will lose it, those who AREN'T expecting to be here when Satan and his angels come, those who WON'T HAVE THEIR HEADS COVERED with the TRUTH of Gods words and so will be deceived.  Those who CAN'T READ and understand that NOT UNTIL AFTER the workings of Satan ARE WE GATHERED. 

How is it THE LIVING/NEVER DIE don't RISE UP just like Christ when their common death of their flesh and blood comes?  Do they rise up in power?  Or not till they return for some body NOT MADE IN THE HEAVENS WITHOUT HANDS but some body from the decay of their last one and from the corrupt earth?  Does that sound like the GLORIFIED ETERNAL BODY GOD would have us put into?  


We are transformed in the twinkling of an eye.  We FOLLOW Him to be where He is and He is sitting on the right hand of God.  THAT is the PLACE Jesus said He was going to prepare for us. 


Those who are living come to FAITH, walk holy, their flesh and blood body dies, they go to the mansion in the sky and RECEIVE IN THEIR BODY of the things they have done at the judgment seat of Christ. 

Those who are living and DON'T come to faith, walk in sin, when their flesh and blood body dies, they go to the place of the dead, and RECEIVE their spiritual body WHICH IS PERFECTly fine  because THEY STILL HAVE TO FEAR HIM WHO CAN KILL BOTH BODY AND SOUL IN THE LAKE OF FIRE at the end of the 1000 years when THE DE4AD stand in judgment at the GWTJ.  The dead, who have gotten their names in the book of life by not following after Satan when he is loosed at the end of the Lords day combined with their good works throughout the 1000 years  "COME TO LIFE" aka ETERNAL life because they are not going to experience the 2nd death of BOTH THEIR SPIRITUAL BODY AND SOUL like those who are going to remain dead and go into the LOF. 




So we come to life/faith thereby we never die, so we follow Him and return with Him to judge the nations

or

we remain of the 'dead who bury their dead' because we don't come to belief and RISE out from the dead when Christ returns to 'populate' the earth for the 1000 years and are judged at the GWTJ. 


SO, yes, Christ comes for those who never die up until HE returns as LORD OF LORDS AND KING OF KINGS at which time all those who didn't take the mark of the beast ARE CHANGED in the twinkling of an eye

while

at the same time those who will be rising OUT FROM THE DEAD,  rise up in spiritual bodies (to be known as the nations that came against Jerusalem, for the Lords Day) and we will see if they pass the test when Satan is loosed. 

NO ONE and I mean NO ONE will be TORMENTED in the lake of fire FOR EVER…The Word makes it very clear, THE SMOKE goes up forever and ever, THEY DON'T CREATE SMOKE for ever and ever…IF THEY DID THEN Christ and the angels WOULD NEVER LEAVE THE LOF…and GOD wouldn't be a CONSUMING fire, those He created would have been made 'non consumable' 
 

[DeighAnn]

please forgive ALL THE CAPITOLS and spelling mistakes and punctuation errors...and feel free to GIVE any SCRIPTURE that comes into conflict as I am writing this once and not going back to check it for mistakes unless someone gives some Scripture showing something cannot be true or when I find something when I go back to give Scripture to all the points given.   I simply can't follow all the different lines of thought here.

Again, I plan on going back and giving all the verses that show in GODS own WORDS (and not in my own), why THIS is the way I believe.  Just trying to keep posts short  


ALL die when Christ returns.

No natural bodies go into the Millennium
all are in spiritual bodies, some just facing the 2nd death


Come to 'life' is about an eternal
SPIRITUAL life, not about a flesh and blood body being 'born again' from the decay, THOSE KINDS of BODIES could NEVER COME BEFORE THE LORD

HOW is it possible for A CHILD to be 100 years old in a flesh and blood body??????  It isn't, everyone knows it.  And some it will take A LONG TIME to 'change' like we did when we were 'baptized', dying to this world and being born into HIS KINGDOM...


THE SUBJECT in 1 Thes 4 seems to HARD TO FOLLOW, hence 2 Thess with the correction and THE ORDER OF EVENTS
aka when YE SHALL SEE, not when THEY shall see.  Matt 24, the DISCIPLES come to HIM PRIVATELY.  Mark 13, His come to Him PRIVATELY.  Are we disciples/followers of Christ?  IF so, then the MESSAGE IS TO US and not to 'them or those never written of 'trib saints' 

YES, THE CHURCH will go through the trib of Satan, because WE ARE NOT GATHERED UNTIL AFTER THE WORKINGS OF SATAN.  If you believe anything OTHER than that you are under a STRONG DELUSION and are perpetuating FALSE TEACHINGS.  Rebuking all those who do.    


THE DEAD don't prevent the living AKA those who go to hell and rise when Christ returns DON'T have ANY BEARING on our 'following Him' to be where He is and returning WITH HIM. 

The army that returns WITH HIM sit upon the thrones and those who are raptured/caught up in the AIR (do a really deep study on that word and FIND what is being hidden)  at His return JOIN UP WITH THEM. 

Christ is RETURNING once enemies are made HIS FOOT STOOL and NOT A SECOND BEFORE AKA THERE is NO option in the word of God for Him to LEAVE AND DO ANYTHING.  When HE leaves it is a LORD OF LORDS AND KING OF KINGS. 

Just as the living who come to belief NEVER DIE, the dead who come to life HAVE TO GET THEIR NAMES IN THE BOOK OF LIFE DURING the Lords Day/the Millennium/the 1000 years SATAN is in the abyss before he is loosed a short time.  WHY is he loosed?  To see if he can DECEIVE 'the dead' that rose when Christ returned, just like the last generation of this age will have to NOT BE DECEIVED, not go after when they hear 'yo there is Christ or here is Christ' aka the RAPTURE THEORY that is for those who SEEK TO SAVE THEIR LIVES and so will lose it, those who AREN'T expecting to be here when Satan and his angels come, those who WON'T HAVE THEIR HEADS COVERED with the TRUTH of Gods words and so will be deceived.  Those who CAN'T READ and understand that NOT UNTIL AFTER the workings of Satan ARE WE GATHERED. 

How is it THE LIVING/NEVER DIE don't RISE UP just like Christ when their common death of their flesh and blood comes?  Do they rise up in power?  Or not till they return for some body NOT MADE IN THE HEAVENS WITHOUT HANDS but some body from the decay of their last one and from the corrupt earth?  Does that sound like the GLORIFIED ETERNAL BODY GOD would have us put into?  


We are transformed in the twinkling of an eye.  We FOLLOW Him to be where He is and He is sitting on the right hand of God.  THAT is the PLACE Jesus said He was going to prepare for us. 


Those who are living come to FAITH, walk holy, their flesh and blood body dies, they go to the mansion in the sky and RECEIVE IN THEIR BODY of the things they have done at the judgment seat of Christ. 

Those who are living and DON'T come to faith, walk in sin, when their flesh and blood body dies, they go to the place of the dead, and RECEIVE their spiritual body WHICH IS PERFECTly fine  because THEY STILL HAVE TO FEAR HIM WHO CAN KILL BOTH BODY AND SOUL IN THE LAKE OF FIRE at the end of the 1000 years when THE DE4AD stand in judgment at the GWTJ.  The dead, who have gotten their names in the book of life by not following after Satan when he is loosed at the end of the Lords day combined with their good works throughout the 1000 years  "COME TO LIFE" aka ETERNAL life because they are not going to experience the 2nd death of BOTH THEIR SPIRITUAL BODY AND SOUL like those who are going to remain dead and go into the LOF. 




So we come to life/faith thereby we never die, so we follow Him and return with Him to judge the nations

or

we remain of the 'dead who bury their dead' because we don't come to belief and RISE out from the dead when Christ returns to 'populate' the earth for the 1000 years and are judged at the GWTJ. 


SO, yes, Christ comes for those who never die up until HE returns as LORD OF LORDS AND KING OF KINGS at which time all those who didn't take the mark of the beast ARE CHANGED in the twinkling of an eye

while

at the same time those who will be rising OUT FROM THE DEAD,  rise up in spiritual bodies (to be known as the nations that came against Jerusalem, for the Lords Day) and we will see if they pass the test when Satan is loosed. 

NO ONE and I mean NO ONE will be TORMENTED in the lake of fire FOR EVER…The Word makes it very clear, THE SMOKE goes up forever and ever, THEY DON'T CREATE SMOKE for ever and ever…IF THEY DID THEN Christ and the angels WOULD NEVER LEAVE THE LOF…and GOD wouldn't be a CONSUMING fire, those He created would have been made 'non consumable' 
 

[DeighAnn]

1 minute ago, DeighAnn said:

ALL die when Christ returns.

Rev
On this earth we have the different 'classes' and they range from KINGS on down to slaves...This verse  NAMES THEM from the highest to the lowest and all in-between...


17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

[DeighAnn]

7 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

No natural bodies go into the Millennium
all are in spiritual bodies, some just facing the 2nd death

18Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying, 19Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man's brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. 20Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed. 21And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise. 22And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also. 23In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife. 24And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? 25For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. 26And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? 27He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.


THEY are THOSE WHO lived and died and were of the captivity that Christ would lead captive (and one of the reasons for the NEW COVENANT that could give life) raised up,


NOT 'a church of the 2nd to last generation' raptured to ESCAPE Tribulation


16For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.


20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.



35But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.



It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 


10:26Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. 27What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. 28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.



52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 




HOW WOULD DEATH take place and where would those who were killed go when we read 

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.



It ISN'T THE LIVING WHO ARE RAISED UP 

it is the dead and the dead are raised up IN A SPIRITUAL BODY still facing the 2nd death, and should be FEARING THE ONE who can kill BOTH THE BODY AND SOUL.

[DeighAnn]

30 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Come to 'life' is about an eternal
SPIRITUAL life, not about a flesh and blood body being 'born again' from the decay, THOSE KINDS of BODIES could NEVER COME BEFORE THE LORD

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[DeighAnn]

33 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

THE SUBJECT in 1 Thes 4 seems to HARD TO FOLLOW, hence 2 Thess with the correction and THE ORDER OF EVENTS
aka when YE SHALL SEE, not when THEY shall see.  Matt 24, the DISCIPLES come to HIM PRIVATELY.  Mark 13, His come to Him PRIVATELY.  Are we disciples/followers of Christ?  IF so, then the MESSAGE IS TO US and not to 'them or those never written of 'trib saints' 

SUBJECT IS THOSE WHO HAVE DIED/which are ASLEEP, NOT A FUTURE CHURCH, NO MENTION OF A FUTURE CHURCH RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION,

13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 


NOW we read of CHRISTS RETURN and how that is going to be

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

The LAST GENERATION still living and breathing on the earth at His return

DOESN'T PREVENT those who have died FROM FOLLOWING HIM and returning with HIM.  


16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:



17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 

NOTICE NO MENTION OF AN ASCENTION.  The Lord is DESCENDING and this is taking place at the 7TH TRUMP...


which looks like this

 

11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

 

17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

ALL DIE when Christ returns and THEN SOME OF THE DEAD rise up in their incorruptible (still facing the 2nd death...aka fear HIM who kills both the body and soul in the LOF) bodies... Heaven has come to earth and there will be NO FLESH AND BLOOD BODIES and no men killing other men...




 

3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

THE REST of the message is to HIS AKA CHRISTIANS....not anyone else
and what does that message say???

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 


READ and understand, NO PRE TRIB RAPTURE...hence the 2 Thess 


1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:



9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,




And here is exactly WHERE THE PRE TRIB DOCTRINE HAS LEAD US TODAY


10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


It isn't RIGHT to LEAVE anyone behind... THE CHURCH is supposed to be DOING THE WILL OF GOD.  

...whomsoever would...


pick up your CROSS, that is to be CRUCIFIED before you TRY TO SAVE YOUR OWN SOUL because if you do, then you lose it.