Differences between Rapture and 2nd Coming

[Retrobyter]

7 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Thank you very much. Much more precise, simple, and direct. without adding to the Word.

I agree, and you're welcome.

7 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Big difference between an appearance "in the clouds," and a physical presence upon earth. A very big difference.

Actually, when one remembers the words of the two men in white found in Acts 1, "in the clouds" is a precursor to His landing.

Acts 1:9-11 (KJV)

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven (into the sky) as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said,

"Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven (into the sky)? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven (into the sky), shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven (into the sky)."

They were saying, "Just as you saw Him going up and disappearing in the cloud, so He shall come back in the clouds, and descend to the earth!" Same details - "IN LIKE MANNER" - only in the reverse.

7 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Souls who die and go to heaven are not bodyless. Haven't you read 2 Cor. 5?

5:1 For we know that if the earthly house [physical body] of our tabernacle [the soul] is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this [antecedent: this soul-tabernacle] we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tabernacle [soul] groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed [of the physical body], but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. ... 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the [physical] body and to be present with the Lord.

Haven't you read the Resurrection Chapter of 1 Corinthians 15?

First, the "tabernacle" is NOT the "soul." A "tabernacle" is a TENT! Just as it is used in Hebrews 11:

Hebrews 11:8-9 (KJV)

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as [in] a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

The Greek word is "σκηνή" transliterated as "skeenee" and pronounced "skay-nay'." Abraham, Yitschaq ("Isaac") and Ya`aqoV ("Jacob") were Bedouins, following their herds wherever they could find pasture. As such, they had PORTABLE "HOUSES" or large "TENTS!"

If anything, the "tent" or "tabernacle" is the BODY! 

Second, a "soul" is NOT something outside of the body! The Hebrew word translated as "soul" is "נֶפֶשׁ" or "nefesh": Here's Strong's entry:

H5315 נֶפֶשׁ nephesh (nefesh), neh'-fesh; from H5314; properly, a breathing creature, i.e. animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental):
—any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, × dead(-ly), desire, × (dis-) contented, × fish, ghost, greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, × jeopardy of) life (× in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, slay, soul, tablet, they, thing, (× she) will, ×would have it.

It comes from the verb form,

H5314 נָפַשׁ nâphash (naafash), naw-fash'; a primitive root; to breathe; passively, to be breathed upon, i.e. (figuratively) refreshed (as if by a current of air):
—(be) refresh selves (-ed).

The first instance is in Genesis 2:7:

Genesis 2:7 (KJV)

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

This describes how God created the man (Adam). He used the very technique which we've copied today in what is called "rescue breathing."

Adam became "a living, breathing creature."

When Adam died, he did not leave his body.

Genesis 5:3-5 (KJV)

3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat [a son] in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth: 4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters: 5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

When God had pronounced the curse upon him, He said,

Genesis 3:17-19 (KJV)

17 And unto Adam he said,

"Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, 'Thou shalt not eat of it': cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return."

Note: He did NOT say that "Adam's BODY was made of dust"; He said, "Dust THOU art" and "Unto dust shalt THOU return!"

When we move into the New Testament, the Greek is really no different: Here are the Strong's entries for the word "psuchee" and its source:

5590 ψυχή psychḗ (psuchee), psoo-khay'; from G5594; breath, i.e. (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew H5315, H7307 and H2416):
—heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.

5594 ψύχω psýchō (psuchoo), psoo'-kho; a primary verb; to breathe (voluntarily but gently, thus differing on the one hand from G4154, which denotes properly a forcible respiration; and on the other from the base of G109, which refers properly to an inanimate breeze), i.e. (by implication, of reduction of temperature by evaporation) to chill (figuratively):
—wax cold.

So, by their own admission, 

G4490 = H5315 and
G4494 = H5314.

That's enough for now, but I'm going to address the Resurrection Chapter next:

[Diaste]

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Sure it does. You just don't like the timing, 'cause it doesn't "fit in" with your scenario!

No. There is no timing as in relation to other events placing the sheep and goats either before or after other major events or time periods. What is said is Jesus will sit on His throne and put sheep and goats on His right and left. It's not said this is before or after the 1000 years. 

The sheep and goats are divided  when Jesus is ruling, but when that separation happens is not in the text of Matt 25:31-46. We have to go elsewhere to discern when.

The fact this is a deeds based judgement, and so is the GWT from Rev 20, marks a similarity I can't ignore.

[Diaste]

6 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

It had better be a VERY comfortable throne, then! Look, neither David nor Shlomoh (Solomon) sat on the throne all of the time! They only sat upon the throne when they were sitting in JUDGMENT, i.e., MAKING DECISIONS, particularly OF STATE!

You did not just do that. You did not just go full literal when you know it's a metaphor for ruling. 

[Diaste]

6 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

 It doesn't say all individuals, as "all men"; He gathers all NATIONS to Him! They are being represented by their individual ambassadors, and the nation's doom is pronounced to that representative.

This is a story you made up that I reject. This is not borne out in the text. 

Jesus goes on to render judgement based on what they did to individuals by an individual. Nations don't visit the prisoners, the sick, the widows, people do, individuals do. 

The reference to nations is simply saying 'all people that are not Israel'.  

[Diaste]

6 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

As far as Revelation 20:4-6 are concerned, you continue to ignore the first part of verse 4!

I do not. That's a reference to the position and authority of judges on thrones. This isn't saying there is some set of people previously enthroned, this is a picture of the power and authority given to those which the text described next; the ones who overcame the beast. 

You can't conjure some other group not a part of Rev 20:4-6, which passage describes who specifically lives and reigns with Jesus for 1000 years. 

"Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. " This isn't separate from the ones found worthy to sit on the thrones, whom are described in the same passage as the ones who, "came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years." as a result of their overcoming.

[Retrobyter]

 

On 11/13/2024 at 3:58 PM, WilliamL said:

Thank you very much. Much more precise, simple, and direct. without adding to the Word.

Big difference between an appearance "in the clouds," and a physical presence upon earth. A very big difference.

Souls who die and go to heaven are not bodyless. Haven't you read 2 Cor. 5?

5:1 For we know that if the earthly house [physical body] of our tabernacle [the soul] is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this [antecedent: this soul-tabernacle] we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tabernacle [soul] groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed [of the physical body], but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. ... 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the [physical] body and to be present with the Lord.

Shalom, @WilliamL.

Continuing on, as promised....

1 Corinthians 15:35-58 (KJV)

35 But some [man] will say,

"How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened (made alive), except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

39 All flesh [is] not the same flesh: but [there is]
one [kind of] flesh of men (Greek: σὰρξ ἀνθρώπων = sarx anthroopoon = "flesh of humans"),
another flesh of beasts (Greek: σὰρξ κτηνῶν = sarx kteenoon = "flesh of-[land]-animals"),
another of fishes (Greek: ἰχθύων = ichthuoon = "of-fishes"),
[and] another of birds (Greek: πτηνῶν = pteenoon = "of-birds").

40 [There are] also celestial bodies (Greek: σώματα ἐπουράνια = soomata epourania = "bodies above-the-sky"),
and bodies terrestrial (Greek: σώματα ἐπίγεια = soomata epigeia = "bodies above-the-earth"):
but the glory of the celestial (Greek: ἡ τῶν ἐπουρανίων δόξα = hee toon epouranioon doxa = "the of-the above-skies brightness")  [is] one (in the visible light range), and the [glory] of the terrestrial (Greek: ἡ τῶν ἐπιγείων [δόξα] = hee toon epigeioon [doxa] = "the of-the above-ground [brightness]") [is] another (in the infrared range).
41 [There is] one glory (brightness) of the sun, (-26.74 in magnitude)
and another glory (brightness) of the moon, (-12.7 in magnitude)
and another glory (brightness) of the stars: (Sirius is -1.46 in magnitude)
for [one] star differeth from [another] star in glory (brightness). (others have an even higher [dimmer] magnitude)

42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead: 
It is sown in corruption (fthora = decay); it is raised in incorruption (aftharsia = incapable of decay):
43 It is sown in dishonour (atimia = indignity); it is raised in glory (doxee = fame; apparentness; brightness):
it is sown in weakness (astheneia = frailty); it is raised in power (dunamei = power; strength):
44 It is sown a natural body (Greek: sooma psuchikon = air-breathing body); it is raised a spiritual body (Greek: sooma pneumatikon = air-blasting body).
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written,

"The [first] man [Adam] was made a living soul"  (Greek: Ἐγένετο ὁ [πρῶτος] ἄνθρωπος [Ἀδὰμ] εἰς ψυχὴν ζῶσαν = Egeneto ho [prootos] anthroopos [Adam] eis psucheen zoosan = Hebrew: וַיְהִי הָאָדָם לְנֶפֶשׁ חַיָּה = Vayhiy haa'Aadaam l-nefesh hayyaah = English: And-became the-Red-[man] into-an-air-breathing-creature living") (Genesis 2:7);

the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit (a life-giving air-blasting-creature)!

46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy (Greek: ἐκ γῆς χοϊκός = ek gees choikos = "from ground soil-like"): the second man [is] the Lord from heaven (Greek: ὁ Κύριος ἐξ οὐρανοῦ = ho Kurios ex ouranou = "the Master from [the]-sky"). 48 As [is] the earthy (Greek: οἷος ὁ χοϊκός = hoios ho choikos = like the soil-like-[one]), such [are] they also that are earthy (Greek: τοιοῦτοι καὶ οἱ χοϊκοί = toioutoi kai hoi choikoi = "such also the soil-like-[ones]"): and as [is] the heavenly (Greek: οἷος ὁ ἐπουράνιος = hoios ho epouranios = "like the [one]-of-above-the-sky"), such [are] they also that are heavenly (Greek: τοιοῦτοι καὶ οἱ ἐπουράνιοι = toioutoi kai hoi epouranioi = "such-[are]-they also the [ones]-of-above-the-sky"). 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy (Greek: καὶ καθὼς ἐφορέσαμεν τὴν εἰκόνα τοῦ χοϊκοῦ = kai kathoos eforesamen teen eikona tou choixou = "and like we-have-carried the image of-the soil-like-[one]"), we shall also bear the of the heavenly (Greek: φορέσομεν καὶ τὴν εἰκόνα τοῦ ἐπουρανίου = foresomen kai teen eikona tou epouraniou = "we-shall-carry also the image of-the [one]-of-above-the-sky").

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep (die), but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we (the living, now including those who had been dead) shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,

"Death is swallowed up in victory." (Isaiah 25:8)

55 "O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?" (Hosea 13:14)

56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law. 57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

So, the SAME MAN (Paul) who spoke through the SAME SPIRIT OF GOD in the writing of 2 Corinthians, also said in 1 Corinthians that our NEW "SPIRITUAL" BODIES - that is, our NEW AIR-BLASTING BODIES - are built out of our old bodies in the RESURRECTION!

And, according to the SAME CHAPTER, this happens when "in Christ shall all be made alive," and for us, this happens "afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."

So, please understand this: Paul was NOT talking about us "being in Heaven immediately." He was talking about us "being with the Lord AT HIS COMING!" So, look at 2 Corinthians 5.

2 Corinthians 5:1-8 (KJV)

1 For we know that if our earthly house of [this] tabernacle (our body) were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

{Here's the Greek of this verse:

1 Οἴδαμεν γὰρ ὅτι ἐὰν ἡ ἐπίγειος ἡμῶν οἰκία τοῦ σκήνους καταλυθῇ οἰκοδομὴν ἐκ θεοῦ ἔχομεν οἰκίαν ἀχειροποίητον αἰώνιον ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς.

Transliterated,

1 Oidamen gar hoti ean hee epigeios heemoon oikia tou skeenous kataluthee oikodomeen ek Theou echomen oikian acheiropoieeton aioonion en tois ouranois.

Translated word-for-word, we get,

1 We-see for that if the upon-[the]-earth of-us a-house of-the tent were-dissolved/decayed a-habitation from God we-hold, a-residence not-hand-made into-the-age in the skies.}

Now, WHO is "in the skies?" Not us, it's the Lord Yeeshuwa` (Jesus) who went into the sky, and who shall return from the sky!

And, "eternal" (αἰώνιον) doesn't truly means "forever." It means "disappearing to the vanishing point." Think of standing on flat ground on the rails of a very straight train track, looking off to the horizon. Can we see "forever?" No, we only can see to the point where the rails seem to intersect at the horizon - the vanishing point. For a six-foot man, that's only about 3 miles. It's a singular, feminine word (in the accusative case) that means "an age!" Sometimes, the word is used in the plural and should be translated "into the ages." THEN it is talking about "forever."

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven (not "IN heaven"): 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in [this] tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed (decay away to nothing), but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

This goes back to 1 Corinthians 15:54! And, there, it's talking about the RESURRECTION!

5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing [is] God, who also hath given unto us the earnest (down payment) of the Spirit. 6 Therefore [we are] always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord (i.e., in the FUTURE at His coming).

I hope this helps.

[WilliamL]

s

On 11/13/2024 at 11:06 PM, Retrobyter said:

"Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven (into the sky)? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven (into the sky), shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven (into the sky)."

They were saying, "Just as you saw Him going up and disappearing in the cloud, so He shall come back in the clouds, and descend to the earth!"

Your adding "and descend to the earth" -- such presumption on your part, to add to the Word. Always a mistake. You may THINK that, but to teach that is go beyond what is written.

On 11/13/2024 at 11:06 PM, Retrobyter said:

First, the "tabernacle" is NOT the "soul." A "tabernacle" is a TENT! Just as it is used in Hebrews 11:

Most certainly the soul is the tabernacle of man's spirit, as well as of his breath. And the body is the dwelling/house/tabernacle of the soul. Peter used the word tabernacle/tent/skenomati  to so describe his body:

2 Peter 1:13 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting [you] in remembrance; 14 Knowing that shortly I must put off [this] my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

[WilliamL]

On 11/16/2024 at 5:05 AM, Retrobyter said:

So, the SAME MAN (Paul) who spoke through the SAME SPIRIT OF GOD in the writing of 2 Corinthians, also said in 1 Corinthians that our NEW "SPIRITUAL" BODIES - that is, our NEW AIR-BLASTING BODIES - are built out of our old bodies in the RESURRECTION!

Incorrect. 2 Cor. 5:1ff. says nothing about the resurrection. Rather, he describes there the form the soul is to be given in heaven after its death but BEFORE its resurrection.

If you can't see the context of 2 Cor.51ff., then you are are being blinded by your own presumption once again.

2 Cor. 5:6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. ... 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

Edited November 17, 2024 by WilliamL

[Retrobyter]

On 11/14/2024 at 5:53 AM, Diaste said:

No. There is no timing as in relation to other events placing the sheep and goats either before or after other major events or time periods. What is said is Jesus will sit on His throne and put sheep and goats on His right and left. It's not said this is before or after the 1000 years. 

The sheep and goats are divided  when Jesus is ruling, but when that separation happens is not in the text of Matt 25:31-46. We have to go elsewhere to discern when.

The fact this is a deeds based judgement, and so is the GWT from Rev 20, marks a similarity I can't ignore.

Shabbat shalom, @Diaste.

Why do you resist the simplicity of the sentence? Do you have "skin in the game?" I mean, do you have a book or movie or something that has income riding upon your interpretation of both Revelation 20:4-6 and Matthew 25:31-46?

It's quite simple in both English and Greek.

Matthew 25:31-34 (KJV)

31 WHEN THE SON OF MAN SHALL COME IN HIS GLORY, and all the holy angels with him, THEN SHALL HE SIT UPON THE THRONE OF HIS GLORY: 32 AND BEFORE HIM SHALL BE GATHERED ALL NATIONS: AND HE SHALL SEPARATE THEM ONE FROM ANOTHER, AS A SHEPHERD DIVIDETH [HIS] SHEEP FROM THE GOATS: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand,

"'Come, ye blessed of my Father, INHERIT THE KINGDOM prepared for you from the foundation of the world: ....' "

Not 1,000 years later, not even a couple of years later! They were to INHERIT the Kingdom! What good would it do for them to WAIT A THOUSAND YEARS?!!! For them to have to wait that long would make a JOKE out of calling them "ye blessed of my Father!"

The Greek is no different:

ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 25:31-34 (Scrivener's TR)

31 Ὅταν δὲ ἔλθῃ ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐν τῇ δόξῃ αὐτοῦ, καὶ πάντες οἱ ἅγιοι ἄγγελοι μετ’ αὐτοῦ, τότε καθίσει ἐπὶ θρόνου δόξης αὐτοῦ, 32 καὶ συναχθήσεται ἔμπροσθεν αὐτοῦ πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, καὶ ἀφοριεῖ αὐτοὺς ἀπ’ ἀλλήλων, ὥσπερ ὁ ποιμὴν ἀφορίζει τὰ πρόβατα ἀπὸ τῶν ἐρίφων· 33 καὶ στήσει τὰ μὲν πρόβατα ἐκ δεξιῶν αὐτοῦ, τὰ δὲ ἐρίφια ἐξ εὐωνύμων. 34 τότε ἐρεῖ ὁ βασιλεὺς τοῖς ἐκ δεξιῶν αὐτοῦ, Δεῦτε, οἱ εὐλογημένοι τοῦ πατρός μου, κληρονομήσατε τὴν ἡτοιμασμένην ὑμῖν βασιλείαν ἀπὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου.

31 Hotan de elthee ho huios tou anthroopou en tee doxee autou, kai pantes hoi hagioi aggeloi met' autou, tote kathisei epi thronou doxees autou, 32 kai sunachtheesetai emprosthen autou panta ta ethnee, kai aforiei autous ap' alleeloon, hoosper ho poimeen aforizei ta probata apo toon epifoon; 33 kai steesei ta men probata ek dexioon autou, ta de epifia ex euoonumoon. 34 tote erei ho Basileus tois ek dexioon autou, "Deute, hoi eulogeemenoi tou Patros mou, kleeronomeesate teen heetoimasmeneen humin basileian apo katabolees kosmou."

31 When but comes the Son of-the man in the fame/brightness of-Him, and all the holy messengers with Him, then He-shall-sit upon a-throne bright/famous of-Him, 32 and [they]-shall-be-gathered in-front of-Him all the ethnicities, and He-shall-separate them from each-other, like the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He-shall-set the indeed sheep out-from right-hand of-Him, the but goats out-from left-hand. 34 Then shall-say the King to-those out-from right-hand of-Him, "Come-now, the ones-well-spoken of-the Father of-me, obtain-by-lot-of-inheritance the-one prepared for-you of-[the]-Kingdom before establishing [the]-world-system."T

Rearranged in English word-order,

31 But when the Son of-the man comes in the fame/brightness of-Him, and all the holy messengers with Him, then He-shall-sit upon a bright/famous throne, 32 and in-front of-Him shall-be-gathered all the ethnicities, and He-shall-separate them from each-other, like the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He-shall-set the sheep indeed out-from right-hand of-Him, but the goats out-from left-hand. 34 Then the King shall-say to-those out-from right-hand of-Him, "Come-now, the ones-well-spoken of-the Father of-me, obtain-by-lot-of-inheritance the Kingdom prepared for-you before establishing [the]-world-system."

The verbs in red are both in the imperative! The first verb, "Come now!" is an adverbial imperative - an ORDER! 

The second verb, "obtain by lot of inheritance," is in the aorist active tense, meaning "CLAIM IT!" 

I don't understand how one could think this would be a THOUSAND YEARS LATER!

[Retrobyter]

15 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Your adding "and descend to the earth" -- such presumption on your part, to add to the Word. Always a mistake. You may THINK that, but to teach that is go beyond what is written.

Shalom, @WilliamL.

I'm not adding anything that's not within the context; it's found within the words! 

The Greek word translated as "shall come" means "to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving and of those returning." They had just experienced Yeeshuwa` leaving the earth and rising into the sky until He was lost to them in the clouds! So, these two men in white clothing were saying He would return "IN LIKE MANNER AS THEY SAW HIM GO INTO THE SKY!" That IMPLIES that HE SHALL BE BACK, LANDING upon the ground He left!

15 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Most certainly the soul is the tabernacle of man's spirit, as well as of his breath. And the body is the dwelling/house/tabernacle of the soul. Peter used the word tabernacle/tent/skenomati  to so describe his body:

2 Peter 1:13 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting [you] in remembrance; 14 Knowing that shortly I must put off [this] my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

Yes, Kefa ("Cephas" or Peter) was about to die. Verse 15 should not be excluded:

2 Peter 1:15 (KJV)

15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.

Now, I think you're making up "the soul is the tabernacle of man's spirit." This is the same deceit that was used when early Christians added Greek philosophy and theology  in the late 200s and early 300s A.D! You're not getting this from the Bible! This is coming DIRECTLY from some philosophical position you've added to your position.

What's ironic is that, with the correct definitions of these words, what you said is not wrong! "The soul (the air-breathing creature) IS the tabernacle (tent) of man's spirit (breath)!" But, this is only true while the person is alive. When a person gives up his breath, that is, he "expires," then he is no longer an "air-breathing creature." He is no longer a "soul!" He's just a dead body that begins to decay.

THIS IS WHY THE RESURRECTION IS SO IMPORTANT! And, it is the RESURRECTION that is our "BLESSED HOPE!" NOT "going to Heaven!"

1 Peter 1:3-9 (KJV)

3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto A LIVELY HOPE (Greek: ἐλπίδα ζῶσαν = elpida zoosan = "an-expectation of-being alive") by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation (rescue) ready to be revealed IN THE LAST TIME. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory AT THE APPEARING OF JESUS CHRIST: 8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see [him] not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 RECEIVING THE END OF YOUR FAITH, [EVEN] THE SALVATION (RESCUE) OF [YOUR] SOULS (AIR-BREATHING CREATURES).