Wrath v Great Tribulation

[douggg]

36 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

Jesus does not descend to the earth when the tribulation is over.

Jesus descends to earth, to stand on the Mt of Olives, in Zechariah 14, splitting it in half, and ends the great tribulation at that point.

The great tribulation is not over until the beast, the false prophet, and Satan have been dwelt with.

 

 

 

[The Light]

5 minutes ago, douggg said:

Jesus descends to earth, to stand on the Mt of Olives, in Zechariah 14, splitting it in half, and ends the great tribulation at that point.

Jesus stands on the Mount of Olives toward the end of the 7th seal. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. It is marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.

5 minutes ago, douggg said:

The great tribulation is not over until the beast, the false prophet, and Satan have been dwelt with.

 

What do you think is happening during the great tribulation? Do you think it is the wrath of God? How could it be? The signs of the sun, moon and stars mark the end of the tribulation AT THE 6TH SEAL.

What is happening during the Great Tribulation?

Revelation 12

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

If the great tribulation was not cut short...........there would be no flesh alive to be raptured to salvation. All believers would be dead. For the elect's sake the days are cut short.

Matthew 24

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Tribulation is not the wrath of God. You need to make new charts.

[douggg]

14 minutes ago, The Light said:

Jesus stands on the Mount of Olives toward the end of the 7th seal. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. It is marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.

In the text of the sixth seal, does it say that beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire ?    And Satan into the bottomless pit ?

If not, then the great tribulation is not over at the sixth seal.

Most of the great tribulation is over at the sixth seal.  But not all of it.

Edited November 12, 2024 by douggg

[douggg]

24 minutes ago, The Light said:

What do you think is happening during the great tribulation?

The great tribulation will be a time of trouble not seen before in the history of man, and not seen ever again.

God's wrath in the vials of God's wrath will be poured out during the great tribulation.   Also, Satan's wrath will be taking place during the great tribulation.

24 minutes ago, The Light said:

Matthew 24

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Tribulation is not the wrath of God. You need to make new charts.

Cut short of all life on earth being wiped out.  Limited to being 1335 days long.

The great tribulation includes God's wrath poured out on the world, and Satan's wrath against the inhabiters of the earth and sea, Revelation 12:12.

 

Edited November 12, 2024 by douggg

[The Light]

1 hour ago, douggg said:

The verse, Matthew 24:29, does not say after the great tribulation of those days.

Most of the great tribulation has passed, but it is not over. 

Doug, this is SIMPLE LOGIC. Can't you see where the tribulation is OVER when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven?

Can't you see where the 6th seal is opened and the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven

Can't you logically understand that we can conclude that the tribulation is over at the 6th seal?

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Revelation 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

This should be crystal clear Doug. This is the starting point of understanding Revelation. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The wrath of God is the 7th seal. Tribulation is not wrath. SIMPLE LOGIC.

1 hour ago, douggg said:

 

 

You keep citing Matthew 24:29 as being the sixth seal event.   Yes Matthew 24:29 is the sixth seal event - except you are missing that the one big element of the sixth seal event is the sign of the Son of man in heaven of Matthew 24:30a.    The sixth seal event is Matthew 24:29-30a. 

It goes all the way thru Matthew 31. 

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jesus send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth BEFORE the Day of the Lord, the one-year wrath of God.

2 Thes 2

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

1 hour ago, douggg said:

It is not until 45 days later that Jesus descends to earth and ends the great tribulation.

We can prove this is wrong because of these 5 month or 150 days.

Revelation 9

10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

 

 

1 hour ago, douggg said:

AoD setup:

then 1290 days to the sixth seal event, the sign of the Son of man in heaven.

then 45 days to Jesus coming in power and great glory, on the 1335th day.

You are confusing the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal for a harvest before His wrath with the coming of Jesus at the end of wrath.

1 hour ago, douggg said:

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Also, please stop with all the super large text.   I don't appreciate the yelling at me.    Use regular size text.    Bold and/or color highlight if you want to emphasis something in the text.

 

I thought the large text would help you see that the tribulation is over at the 6th seal.

[The Light]

10 minutes ago, douggg said:

In the text of the sixth seal, does it say that beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire ?    And Satan into the bottomless pit ?

If not, then the great tribulation is not over at the sixth seal.

You are confusing the great tribulation with the wrath of God which is the Day of the Lord. The signs in the sun, moon and stars shows you that the tribulation is over at the 6th seal.

10 minutes ago, douggg said:

Most of the great tribulation is over at the sixth seal.  But not all of it.

I will restrain from using large text hoping that you can see clearly that tribulation is over.

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

You need to rethink your charts.

[douggg]

18 minutes ago, The Light said:

Doug, this is SIMPLE LOGIC. Can't you see where the tribulation is OVER when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven?

The "tribulation of those days" is over when the sixth seal take place.    Not the "great tribulation of those days" is over.

In reaction to the sixth seal event, the kings of the earth will gather their armies at Armageddon.

At which time, the seventh vial of God's wrath then is poured out, on earth and Satan's kingdom called Babylon the Great.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2024 by douggg

[The Light]

9 minutes ago, douggg said:

The great tribulation will be a time of trouble not seen before in the history of man, and not seen ever again.

God's wrath in the vials of God's wrath will be poured out during the great tribulation.   Also, Satan's wrath will be taking place during the great tribulation.

How can this be true when the scripture says that the tribulation is over at the 6th seal and the wrath of God does not begin until the 7th seal is opened.

9 minutes ago, douggg said:

Cut short of all life on earth being wiped out.

No sir. Cut short so that alive flesh will be saved...........salvation......rapture. Raptured alive.

9 minutes ago, douggg said:

 

Limited to being 1335 days long.

The great tribulation includes God's wrath poured out on the world, and Satan's wrath against the inhabiters of the earth and sea, Revelation 12:12.

 

The scripture says differently. I don't know how I can make it any clearer. It's just simple logic. Nothing needs to be figured out. It's right there.

[douggg]

@The Light

 

What starts the great tribulation ?

The abomination of desolation, the AoD, set up, right ?

When is the abomination of desolation destroyed to end the great tribulation ?

 

Take a look at my graphic...

 

 

 

 

[The Light]

6 minutes ago, douggg said:

The "tribulation of those days" is over when the sixth seal take place.    Not the "great tribulation of those days" is over.

How can you draw these incorrect conclusions when it is right there in the scripture........GREAT TRIBULTION.........IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS.

Matthew 24

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

6 minutes ago, douggg said:

In reaction to the sixth seal event, the kings of the earth will gather their armies at Armageddon.

At which time, the seventh vial of God's wrath then is poured out, on earth and Satan kingdom called Babylon the Great.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

 

I don't think you understand that the vials of wrath happen in the 7th seal, just as the trumpets of wrath happen in the 7th seal.