The Church isn't in Revelation after Ch 4.

[abcdef]

On 12/3/2024 at 5:55 AM, Diaste said:

Rev 19-22 describes the many attributes of the return of Jesus and His kingdom. None of which have happened.

That depends on how you define the entities and events.

Almost all of Rev 19 and 20 have already happened.

We are at the final phases of the Rev 20 Magog war now. The Armageddon battle is only the last battle of the war that Israel loses.

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I know that this is far from what you believe, but please consider that the first resurrection in Rev 20 is the resurrection of Jesus in 33 AD.

The millennium is our present church/kingdom on this planet.

The 2nd resurrection of Rev 20 is about to happen, when Jerusalem falls to Magog and their allies.

The millennium is a time of peace between God and those in the Pentecost kingdom/church, but the rest of the world goes on as usual from the first resurrection in 33 AD until the second resurrection, that is about to happen.

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You may agree that the "church" is on planet earth during the millennium.

[abcdef]

On 12/3/2024 at 5:57 AM, Diaste said:

Ruling over Israel is not biblical interpretive criteria.

Ruling over Israel certainly is a interpretive criteria.

It sets the historical context.

It is the center of Dan 2, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, and others.

Who ruled over the children of Israel for 1900 years ish? The Dan 7, 4th beast Rome.

 Who rules the children of Israel during the 1st century? The Dan 7, 4th beast Rome.

Who rules over the children of Israel in the Revelation? The Dan 7, 4th beast Rome.

The identification of who rules over the children of Israel is basic history and sets the timeline anchors.

In the Revelation, the children of Israel are shown as being ruled by the Roman beast, the dragon with 7 (8) heads and 10 horns.

Those seen in heaven as being killed by the Roman beast are from 63 BC until the first resurrection when Jesus was resurrection in 33 AD. Those martyrs were resurrected with Jesus. 

[Revelation Man]

19 hours ago, Keras said:

Jesus said: I was sent to save the lost sheep of the House of Israel and to them only. Matthew 15:25

The Jews are the known people of the House of Judah. 

Yes, technically, but the "Jews of today" are all 12 Tribes, and were 2000 years ago, for 700 years they all lived in Judah, this they were Jews to the world. If your family moved to New York 150 years ago you would all be New Yorkers and Americans. That would not change your heritage overall. Many "Italians" live in New York. 

In Ezekiel 37 there were two prophesies, one about Dead Men's Bones and one about making Two Sticks become ONE STICK. Israel were all living in Judah and thus became known as Jews even though all 12 tribes lived in Judah, and still do today, because God who can not lie stated in Ezekiel 37 that He was going the bring the WHOLE HOUSE of Israel back into the land, so each tribe is now living in Israel.

Edited December 9, 2024 by Revelation Man

[abcdef]

On 12/3/2024 at 5:59 AM, Diaste said:

This is a physical description of a physical city:

1 Cor 2:14.

The material world is not eternal. It flies away at the last judgment Rev 20:11, Dan 2:35.

As long as there is flesh and the material world, there will be the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the vain pride of life. Those things are passing away, Jn 2:16-17.

Rev 21:1 says that there is a new heaven and earth and that the old has passed away. That is this material planet and universe that fly away.

We will have new bodies that will be like the angels.

 

On 12/3/2024 at 5:59 AM, Diaste said:

And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high,

The mountain that we have come to cannot be touched, Heb 12:18, it's not a material mountain.

 

On 12/3/2024 at 5:59 AM, Diaste said:

and showed me the holy city of Jerusalem

The city in Rev 21:2 and 10, is the Lamb's wife, Rev 21:9. The Bride of Christ, His wife is the church, a living entity.

Jesus is not going to marry a material city.

 

On 12/3/2024 at 5:59 AM, Diaste said:

coming down out of heaven from God,

Where does it show the city going up to God? There is an answer.

 

On 12/3/2024 at 5:59 AM, Diaste said:

 

 11shining with the glory of God. Its radiance was like a most precious jewel, like a jasper, as clear as crystal. 12The city had a great and high wall with twelve gates inscribed with the names of the twelve tribes of Israel, and twelve angels at the gates. 13There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south, and three on the west. 14The wall of the city had twelve foundations bearing the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Think about what the names might tell about those who are part of the city, the 12 tribes and the Apostles. The church.

 

On 12/3/2024 at 5:59 AM, Diaste said:

15The angel who spoke with me had a golden measuring rod to measure the city and its gates and walls. 16The city lies foursquare, with its width the same as its length. And he measured the city with the rod, and all its dimensions were equal—12,000 stadiad in length and width and height. 17And he measured its wall to be 144 cubits,e by the human measure the angel was using.

The measure of perfection by God.

The city is perfectly formed. That is the measurement. The angel is not communicating a material world measure, but a spiritual measurement of perfection, it is sinless.

 

On 12/3/2024 at 5:59 AM, Diaste said:

 

18The wall was made of jasper, and the city itself of pure gold, as pure as glass. 19The foundations of the city walls were adorned with every kind of precious stone:

The first foundation was jasper,

the second sapphire

the third chalcedony,

the fourth emerald,

20the fifth sardonyx,

the sixth carnelian,

the seventh chrysolite,

the eighth beryl,

the ninth topaz,

the tenth chrysoprase,

the eleventh jacinth,

and the twelfth amethyst.

21And the twelve gates were twelve pearls, with each gate consisting of a single pearl. 

 

On 12/3/2024 at 5:59 AM, Diaste said:

The main street of the city was pure gold, as clear as glass.

If the city is pure gold, how can it be transparent and clear as glass?

 

On 12/3/2024 at 5:59 AM, Diaste said:

22But I saw no temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

Rev 21:22, The Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are it's temple.

This verse is one of the deepest and most important in the Bible. The depth of it's meaning cannot be fully understood by many.  It's implication is astounding and at the center of God's plan.

 

On 12/3/2024 at 5:59 AM, Diaste said:

23And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, because the glory of God illuminates the city, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24By its light the nations will walk, and into it the kings of the earth will bring their glory.f 25Its gates will never be shut at the end of the day, because there will be no night there.

[Keras]

18 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Yes, technically, but the "Jews of today" are al 12 Tribes, and were 2000 years ago, for 700 years they all lived in Judah, this they were Jews to the world. If your family moved to New York 150 years ago you would all be New Yorkers and Americans. That would not change your heritage overall. Many "Italians" live in New York. 

In Ezekiel 37 there were two prophesies, one about Dead Men's Bones and one about making Two Sticks become ONE STICK. Israel were all living in Judah and this became known as Jews even thugh all 12 tribes lived in Judah, and still have to, because God who can not lie stated in Ezekiel 37 that He was going the bring the WHOLE HOUSE of Israel back into the land, so each tribe is now living in Israel.

Just because a few from the other 10 tribes did join with Judah, does not mean the rest of those 10 tribes are lost forever; 

Your idea is proved wrong by the fact of the Jews now not being 'as many as the sands of the sea'. We Christians have accepted the Salvation of Jesus, we are therefore, his Overcomers; literally His Israelite peoples. 

[Diaste]

7 hours ago, abcdef said:

Ruling over Israel certainly is a interpretive criteria.

It sets the historical context.

It is the center of Dan 2, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, and others.

Who ruled over the children of Israel for 1900 years ish? The Dan 7, 4th beast Rome.

 Who rules the children of Israel during the 1st century? The Dan 7, 4th beast Rome.

Who rules over the children of Israel in the Revelation? The Dan 7, 4th beast Rome.

The identification of who rules over the children of Israel is basic history and sets the timeline anchors.

In the Revelation, the children of Israel are shown as being ruled by the Roman beast, the dragon with 7 (8) heads and 10 horns.

Those seen in heaven as being killed by the Roman beast are from 63 BC until the first resurrection when Jesus was resurrection in 33 AD. Those martyrs were resurrected with Jesus. 

Nope. The prophecy is clear: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, then the Diadochi, and from one of the them comes the little horn, the beast of Revelation. Rome did not arise from Macedonia, Asia Minor, Egypt or the Middle East. 

So no, ruling over Israel is not interpretive criteria in this case. It is if God says it is, but in this case He does not. 

[Diaste]

8 hours ago, abcdef said:

That depends on how you define the entities and events.

Almost all of Rev 19 and 20 have already happened.

Any evidence? 

8 hours ago, abcdef said:

We are at the final phases of the Rev 20 Magog war now. The Armageddon battle is only the last battle of the war that Israel loses.

----

I know that this is far from what you believe, but please consider that the first resurrection in Rev 20 is the resurrection of Jesus in 33 AD.

Ha!

8 hours ago, abcdef said:

The millennium is our present church/kingdom on this planet.

A millennium that lasts for 2000 years? 

8 hours ago, abcdef said:

The 2nd resurrection of Rev 20 is about to happen, when Jerusalem falls to Magog and their allies.

The millennium is a time of peace between God and those in the Pentecost kingdom/church, but the rest of the world goes on as usual from the first resurrection in 33 AD until the second resurrection, that is about to happen.

Aside from all the nations going into the city of God year after to mark the feast of Tabernacles. That's not happening.

8 hours ago, abcdef said:

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You may agree that the "church" is on planet earth during the millennium.

 

[Diaste]

8 hours ago, abcdef said:

The abominations in Dan 9 are not the same as the one in Dan 11:31. One is Greek and one is Roman.

We agree that the AoD in Dan 11 is Antiochus in 168 BC, but the Dan 9 AoD is tied to the time of Jesus coming to Israel in 30 AD, His death in 33 1/2 AD, and the consequences of those actions in 70 AD.

Jesus knew that the Dan 11 prophecy had been fulfilled, so the only other prophecy that Jesus could be speaking about was the Dan 9 AoD prophecy.

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Titus does fit the Dan 9 timeline. The Messiah comes to Israel in 30 AD. That is the anchor in the timeline, the coming of Jesus the Prince.

Titus desolated the Temple and Jerusalem.

Titus did sacrifice a pig on the temple altar.

What did Titus or didn't do that disqualifies him from being the Antichrist of in 70 AD?

So you just ignored what I posted? Hmmm

[Diaste]

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Jesus' Ministry was only unto Jews, he said so, but not his Sacrifice. That must be remembered. He had to follow the Laws until his death or he never would have had a ministry, if he's breaking the laws probably most of his Disciples would have not followed him.  We can not look at this without using hindsight. 

A more accurate conclusion is the Israel of God is to whom Jesus was sent.

[Diaste]

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You only miss one small detail brother, if Jesus is showing a VISION in his dictation of the 7 Seals of future events, then he would describe them as being active in the vision, of course. That is why the Angel says "Come and See" via the Seals, but when it comes to the Trumps and Vials we see a different set of facts, the Angels blow or sound the Judgment via the Trumps and they pour out the Judgments via the Vials. 

So, of course the Seals are the Trumps and Vials being foretold. I simply can not grasp why people can not get this lingo Jesus is using. It was well understood 2000 years ago, a King Sealed a message with a Wax Signet Ring, and no one could thus read his message until the 3rd wax seal was broken. God speaks in God terms, like 7 since that represents Divine Completion. So, 7 Seals simply means God's Divine Judgment will not come forth until the 7th Seal is off. God Himself wrote this book, it reeks of a higher form of intelligence, its filled with symbology, encoded references, and metaphors. 

No. That not how the text reads.

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Yes, the 6th Seal seems alike the others because its a foretelling of what is coming. That is why Seal #7 is over in Rev. 8 where an Asteroid brings God's Wrath.

The 7 Trumps are God's Full Wrath, but the 7 Vials emit from the 7th Trump, which makes them the 3rd Woe. So, your hunch is pretty spot on, but The Trumps go in order, so the 7 Vials end it all, because it is the 7th Trump being fulfilled, so when one prophet verse is spoken twice, it can be true, not because all the Trumps and Vials are the same thing, but rather because the Trumps and Vials both bring it all to pass because the 7th Vial is the 7th Trump, AND is also the 3rd Woe. 

No. From what Joel says the 1st trump has sounded by the midpoint. The 7th trump and the 7th bowl are not the same. 

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

In other Words, Seals 1-5 Describes the Anti-Christs 42 month reign, he is not allowed to go forth conquering until God's Wrath hits via the Asteroid. Then Seal #6 is DECRIBING all of God's Wrath to come, so naturally you get two LIKE VERSES. One describes the Wrath that is coming after the Rev. 8 Asteroid hits earth, the other is that Wrath coming to pass in Rev. 16. But alas, when Rev. 8 will bring the 7 Vials, so that verse being repeated likewise is true, the 7th Trump brings the 7 Vials. 

Trumps are not wrath.