Some Who Call Themselves 'Christian' Will Not Inherit the Kingdom of God?

[Desopixi Seilynam]

21 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

And, here's another poster trying to pit Scripture against Scripture.  

Why don't you just tell me why you don't like John 5:24 and 10:28, so you think you have verses that contradict them.

Scripture does not contradict.
You are doing funny stuff with John 5:24.
You want it to say:
" Whoever hears my word and believes has everlasting life "
And you want "my word" to mean something other than
the actual words Jesus spoke.
And with those two notions you come to your own conclusions.
But such conclusions are not sincerely based in scripture
seeing how that you ignore some of verse 24,
and ignore the clear context of verse 23.
 

The fullness of what John 5:24 says, and its context
make clear the message that is being conveyed.
"Whoever hears my word and believes on Him that sent me,
has everlasting life"
And "my word" refers to all the teaching from Jesus, His actual word,
and also hearkening to Jesus is what 'Him that sent me' is a reference to.
The Father said that if we don't listen to the Messiah we would be cut off,
if we believe the Father, we would therefore hearken to the Son.
That is what Jesus is saying in John 5:23-24.
That all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father.
Those who honor Jesus have eternal life.
 

 

[FreeGrace]

50 minutes ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

  FreeGrace said:

And, here's another poster trying to pit Scripture against Scripture.  

Why don't you just tell me why you don't like John 5:24 and 10:28, so you think you have verses that contradict them.

Scripture does not contradict.

Exactly.  Which is my point.  

50 minutes ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

You are doing funny stuff with John 5:24.
You want it to say:
" Whoever hears my word and believes has everlasting life "

Are you trying to be comical here?  Here is the verse from several translations:

New International Version
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

English Standard Version
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Berean Standard Bible
Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.

Berean Literal Bible
Truly, truly, I say to you that the one hearing My word and believing the Onehaving sent Me, he has eternal life and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

King James Bible
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

New American Standard Bible
“Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

So, what's so "funny" in these 6 translations.  The red words in each translation IS IS IS what all the verses say.  

Just because I left out "on Him that sent Me" doesn't change anything.

If you think so, please advise.,

50 minutes ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

And you want "my word" to mean something other than the actual words Jesus spoke.

What do you think I "want" the words 'my word' to mean?  Please tell me.

50 minutes ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

And with those two notions you come to your own conclusions.

Huh?  What "notions"?  What I SAY the verse SAYS is ACTUALLY IN IN IN all 6 translations, along with ALL the other translations on biblehub.com.

50 minutes ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

But such conclusions are not sincerely based in scripture seeing how that you ignore some of verse 24,

There is nothing that I left out changes anything.  Or show how they do.

50 minutes ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

and ignore the clear context of verse 23.

OK, so you believe that v.23 changes the meaning of v.24 from what I believe it plainly says.  Why don't you explain yourself then, if that were true?

50 minutes ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

The fullness of what John 5:24 says, and its context make clear the message that is being conveyed.
"Whoever hears my word and believes on Him that sent me, has everlasting life"

OK, so listen to this then.  "on Him who sent Me" refers to His Father in Heaven.  And what did His Father SAY about His Son?  John 6:40 is clear enough.  "For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”"

So, there you go.  Those who believe in Christ HAVE (possess) eternal life.

I suppose you have a different read of the verse.

50 minutes ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

And "my word" refers to all the teaching from Jesus, His actual word, and also hearkening to Jesus is what 'Him that sent me' is a reference to.

Jesus said plainly that those who believe in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.  That is in John 3:16.  I'm sure you have read it.

Jesus taught on a WHOLE WIDE range of things.  Are you claiming that one must believe in ALL those things unrelated to eternal life in order to have eternal life?

50 minutes ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

The Father said that if we don't listen to the Messiah we would be cut off,
if we believe the Father, we would therefore hearken to the Son.

The obvious context for "listening to the Messiah" is to believe that He IS IS IS the Messiah and gives eternal life to those who believe in Him.

That is why John 5:24 and10:28 go so well together.  5:24 tells us WHEN we possess eternal life, and 10:28 tells us the result of being given eternal life, which is to never perish, the SAME message Jesus gave in 3:16.

50 minutes ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

That is what Jesus is saying in John 5:23-24.
That all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father.
Those who honor Jesus have eternal life.

This is merely TWISTING Scripture competely out of what it plainly SAYS.

And you accuse me of that.  Shame.

I have given you very plainly worded verses that SAY that those who believe in Christ possess eternal life.  It is that clear and simple.

But you've twisting Scripture to fit your own theology, which isn't found in Scripture.

If people DO "honor the Father" from v.23 and THEN believe what the Father SAYS about His Son in v.24, will possess eternal life.  And what the Son says about Himself is found in 3:16.

[Cntrysner]

On 12/18/2024 at 8:02 AM, farouk said:

Hi @Cntrysner; before Pentecost, the justified were not indwelt by the Spirit in the manner of those who are in the church; however, David was indeed among the justified by faith (Hebrews 11.32).

Hello @farouk

I do believe David was justified by his faith in that he believed God and His prophets, now God has spoken to us by His Son (Heb 1:1-2) and our faith is in Him who now is fully revealed.

Rom 1:16  For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 
Rom 1:17  For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Now we must have the righteousness of God by the faith of Christ.

Rom 3:21  But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 
Rom 3:22  Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 

2Co 5:17  Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 

2Co 5:21  For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 
 

[Desopixi Seilynam]

On 12/19/2024 at 7:48 AM, FreeGrace said:

The obvious context for "listening to the Messiah" is to believe that He IS IS IS the Messiah and gives eternal life to those who believe in Him.

The Messiah; the Messenger of the Covenant.

This shall be the covenant, I will put my law in their mind and hearts.
Jeremiah 31:33

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you,
this is the law and the prophets
Matthew 7:12

That is the summary of the message the Messiah gave, the good news,
the law in one easily memorized sentence.

Having it memorized is literally having it in mind,
living it out is literally from the heart.

Whoever believes on the Son has everlasting life,
and he that does not obey the Son shall not see life,
but the wrath of God remains on him still.
John 3:36

The full context makes clear the kind of belief being spoken about,
belief in the Word of God, belief in what He said,
if you don't believe everything that Jesus said,
that means you don't sincerely believe in Jesus.

 

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

Whoever believes on the Son has everlasting life,
and he that does not obey the Son shall not see life,
but the wrath of God remains on him still.
John 3:36

Cherry picking only verses that you "approve" of, that have specific words that you demand, doesn't work for you.

From biblehub.com, this is the word translated into English as "not obey".

Strong's Lexicon

apeitheó: Disobey, be disobedient, refuse to believe

Original Word: ἀπειθέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apeitheó
Pronunciation: ah-pay-THAY-oh
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-i-theh'-o)
Definition: Disobey, be disobedient, refuse to believe
Meaning: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, refuse conformity.

Word Origin: Derived from the Greek prefix "a-" (not) and "peithō" (to persuade or obey), meaning "not to be persuaded" or "to disobey."

Corresponding Greek / Hebrew Entries: The concept of disobedience in the Hebrew Bible is often captured by words like מָרָה (marah - Strong's H4784) meaning "to rebel" or "to be disobedient," and סָרַר (sarar - Strong's H5637) meaning "to be stubborn" or "to turn away."

Are we clear now?

3 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

The full context makes clear the kind of belief being spoken about, belief in the Word of God, belief in what He said, if you don't believe everything that Jesus said, that means you don't sincerely believe in Jesus.

What you seem to ignore is that there are many different subjects that Jesus taught.  And yes, we ARE to believe all of what He said.  

But you have communicated that salvation is only from believing in EVERY subject that He taught.  Which is totally untrue.  I'm NOT supporting the idea that it's ok to not believe everything Jesus said.

But I AM endorsing the FACT that there is saving faith, which is clearly communicated in Scripture and there is lifestyle (or behavior) faith, which results in blessings on earth and reward in eternity.  It seems you can't or won't differentiate between them.

When God led the Jews out of Egypt and marched them through the desert for 40 years, they failed in lifestyle faith over and over, but Paul clearly shows that they were SAVED because they had faith in the Messiah.  1 Cor 10:1-5.

So, unless one can differentiate between saving and lifestyle faith, one cannot understand God's Word.

In EVERY verse that is about how to have salvation/eternal life, the only condition is believing in Christ for it.  That is saving faith.

John 20:31 - But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

If this isn't convincing to you, there are these verses:

1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

If neither of these verses will convince you, I fear you are beyond the facts of the Bible.  What you are trusting in for salvation is NOT what saves anyone.  In fact, your "definition" of faith isn't what the Bible defines for salvation.

How about this for this Christmas season?  Repent of your definition, and realize that the only faith that will save you from the LOF is trusting in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross who died for YOUR sins and gives the gift of eternal life to whoever believes in Him for it.  And the result of being given this gift is the recipient will never perish.

IF you believe this, you ARE saved.  If you still want to add anything else to it, you have corrupted the gospel message, which won't save anyone.