Rome or Islam?

[JoeCanada]

14 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Asia Minor, Mesopotamia nor Egypt are in Greece/Cassander. There were Four Generals not 2 right? 

Actually, when Alexander came to his end, the Greek Empire was fractioned into more than 24 Generals who battled for control. Those wars eventually dwindled down to 5, then 3 then 2. The Kingdoms which ruled the longest were the Seleucid Empire ruling the Near East and the Ptolemaic Kingdom ruling Egypt and the surrounding area. Their rule lasted almost 200 years. 

There was never a time when four were dominate, but for a brief moment.  Historians can't agree between five generals who were in control. There were really only two which were significant. The King of the North and the King of the South.

Don't get all caught up with Daniel 11:4 ...."But as soon as he has arisen, his kingdom will be broken up and parceled out toward the four points of the compass"

In other words, his kingdom will be scattered everywhere ... hence the more than 24 Generals who battled for dominancy.

[Revelation Man]

11 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

I clearly understand the verse.

I was correcting the person who changed the order of the wording. That person said that the little horn  ... "waxed exceeding great towards the EAST" first, instead of toward the SOUTH first. This changing the order makes a big difference.

What person? I kind of knew that because I went back and rewrote the text taking out YOU and putting putting in PEOPLE 

Are you saying a translator did this, or someone on this board etc. etc. etc.? So, it seemed like on rereading you were pointing to some one changing something, and since I know I did a copy & paste it could not be me. Thus the changing of the wording. 

But if you were saying I did that whilst paraphrasing a verse somewhere else, the direction's timings matters not, notice the verse gives us Israel or the Pleasant Land last, and if he attacks Egypt before Turkey, that makes ZERO LOGICAL SENSE, and his goal is to get at Israel right? so why would he attack Egypt first, before Israel? So we now know, the positioning in the verse means nothing, its merely given unto us to tell us WHICH DIRECTION this last King of the North (A.C./Little Horn) comes from in a Four General (Four Winds type riddle). And thus he must come out of the Northwest Corridor, or Cassander/Greece.

So, to get to Turkey he has to go both South & East to get there from Greece and from the E.U., it does not matter at all which is spoken first. That was probably just their way of saying he travels Southeast to conquer them. Basically, the writer Daniel was told this Four Way Generals Battle, (the 7th Syrian War) has a built in directional map, and this end time Little Horn will travel from the North and West to Conquer and that includes Israel, well it was a GIVEN that the Northwest Corridor was Greece thus he has to be a man from that region that conquers the rest of the Four Generals Regions in full, WHY? This is the 7th Syrian War, and 7 means Divine Completion. So, since the Greece/Cassander area is where this Little Horn power comes from, he will not only conquer Israel, but the whole region of the other Four Generals Kingdoms. 

11 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

There you go again. It's not toward the East and South ... its toward the South FIRST, then toward the East.

 

Explained above, you read way you much into stuff like this, this is simply telling us which one of the Generals is the Little Horn, neither Seleucus nor Ptolemy can conquer in BOTH DIRECTIONS in this Inter-Kingdom battle, only Greece can, so God is giving us a huge clue here, he's basically telling us where the Little Horn must be from. Add that to Dan. 7:7-8 and we know why !! Greece is in the E.U. 

11 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

And once more ... the order is changed to fit a persons story line.

 

SMH that you can not see past these simple things brother. 

11 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

A person HAS to change the order to fit with their EU plot. An army can't begin "toward the south" if it is from Cassander or Greece. They'd end up in the sea.

WRONG, you have to grasp at straws because I blow up all your points via clear scriptures. 

Edited December 21, 2024 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

Actually, when Alexander came to his end, the Greek Empire was fractioned into more than 24 Generals who battled for control.

We know all that, but God says thee are Four NOTABLE Generals who won out. So why mention something not seen as worthy of mentioning by God? 

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

The Kingdoms which ruled the longest were the Seleucid Empire ruling the Near East and the Ptolemaic Kingdom ruling Egypt and the surrounding area. Their rule lasted almost 200 years. 

There wound up three major players, Seleucus, Ptolemy and Cassander. In the end time this man is born in Greece which is in the E.U. that is what scriptures say. It is not about PAST EVENTS, but future events. All that matters from here on out is who will be the KOTN/Little Horn/A.C./Beast, and scriptures tell us, he must come from Greece and from the E.U. (10 Horns that arise from the Fourth Beasts Head !! Why is this SO HARD? Its arising from his HEAD !! ) All the clues must mesh. 

3 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

There was never a time when four were dominate, but for a brief moment.  Historians can't agree between five generals who were in control. There were really only two which were significant. The King of the North and the King of the South.

 

I know, but there were the FOUR STRONGEST, and by using four God sets up a Directional Map of North, South East & West, just like in Rev. 7 when he speaks about the Four Winds (Judgment). He loves leaving us clues we can and should decipher, but which the world of unbelievers can't understand. The only clue that matters overall is he has an Archetype in Antiochus Epiphanes a Greek Gentile, and which direction he comes forth from, the North & West of these Four General's OVERALL TERRITTORY. 

4 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Don't get all caught up with Daniel 11:4 ...."But as soon as he has arisen, his kingdom will be broken up and parceled out toward the four points of the compass"

In other words, his kingdom will be scattered everywhere ... hence the more than 24 Generals who battled for dominancy.

It actually says Four Horns/POWERS arise in his stead. BUT...even  if it was 100 generals and generally an OVERALL AREA being spoken about, and the directional parameters were what we were being given, then he still would have to come out of the Northwest portion of the OVERALL Kingdom. But alas, because of the Four Horns we know Gpd is telling us there will be Four MAIN POWERS who arise in Alexander the Greats Stead or Place. 

[Diaste]

On 12/19/2024 at 8:08 PM, Revelation Man said:

Not really, because no one had this as a possibility until he put it forth 20 some odd years ago.

False. It was written in Scripture in the time of Nebuchadnezzar when Gabriel visited Daniel and gave him the interpretation of his dreams. All one has to do is read and listen. I know that's a hard sell to some.

On 12/19/2024 at 8:08 PM, Revelation Man said:

 

I know people on here who buys into Russia is the Bear, England is the Lion, the USA is the Eagle etc. and even if they do not understand this came from Herbert G. Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God, its still factual that they are espousing Herbert's bad prophetic understandings years after he has departed from this earth.

Age and popularity isn't a barometer of truth and accuracy. Just look at Pretrib and the idea of Rome as the end of the age empire. Wildly popular, just as wildly incorrect. 

On 12/19/2024 at 8:08 PM, Revelation Man said:

I never heard anyone argue about an Islamic A.C. until the late 90s, then after 9/11 it became the Soup of the Day. 

Well, you can't possibly know every prophetic student in the whole world over the course of the time of your awareness. That you hadn't heard something until is became popular isn't a surprise.

[Diaste]

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

There wound up three major players, Seleucus, Ptolemy and Cassander. In the end time this man is born in Greece which is in the E.U. that is what scriptures say. It is not about PAST EVENTS, but future events. All that matters from here on out is who will be the KOTN/Little Horn/A.C./Beast, and scriptures tell us, he must come from Greece and from the E.U. (10 Horns that arise from the Fourth Beasts Head !! Why is this SO HARD? Its arising from his HEAD !! ) All the clues must mesh.

So you think Lysimachus and Antigonus weren't major players???

They are the King of the North. Are you sure you're listening to the scriptures? The KOTN is mentioned several times in Dan 11.

No. You say he must come from Greece. There is no connection to the KOTN and the Roman Empire or the EU in all scripture. History proves Cassander was in the West, Ptolemy in the South, Lysimachus in Asia Minor and Seleucid in the East. 

The locations of these kings is based on their relationship to Israel. Asia Minor is directly north of Israel, Greece is west. But neither of those is the beast of eschatology, he comes from Mesopotamia, from the Syrian, Assyrian, Akkadian, Hittite region of Mesopotamia. 

This is borne out by the testimony of Dan 11, which you ignore. 

[Diaste]

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I know, but there were the FOUR STRONGEST, and by using four God sets up a Directional Map of North, South East & West, just like in Rev. 7 when he speaks about the Four Winds (Judgment). He loves leaving us clues we can and should decipher, but which the world of unbelievers can't understand. The only clue that matters overall is he has an Archetype in Antiochus Epiphanes a Greek Gentile, and which direction he comes forth from, the North & West of these Four General's OVERALL TERRITTORY.

Poor interpretation. AE IV was a Syrian king. The only reason you think there's a tie to Greece is because AE IV lived in Athens for a time before traveling to Syria to take the throne of the Seleucid Empire.

That's a shady bit of evidence to hang your hat on. 

Literally AE IV ruled in Syria when he waged war on Egypt, and was rebuffed by Rome, and when committed the A of D. He is a Syrian king. No one called him a Greek or a Greek king...cause he wasn't, he is Syrian, ruling from Syria over the Seleucid Empire. 

As as you admit he is a archetype, then the later A of D in the eschatological time frame will also be Syrian. 

 

 

[Diaste]

On 12/19/2024 at 8:08 PM, Revelation Man said:

Yes, a Head Wound of a "Figurative Seven Headed Beast" as in Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome in which this Beast System is MORTALLY WOUNDED by the Church, then once again  (after the Churches Rapture) the Beast arises again out of the Sea and Apollyon is released from the pit. The Wound is healed, Israel will once again, (after not being so for 2000 or so years) be under the Beast System, as the Anti-Christ aries to power, then Conquers Israel and THE MANY Nations in the MSR. 

You should write fantasy novels.

 

[Diaste]

On 12/19/2024 at 8:08 PM, Revelation Man said:

 

That is because this chapter is about how the Greek Kings Lineage leads us to the Archetype A.C. in Antiochus, and verses 36-45 show how the end time Greek king (AC) who is like unto Antiochus will also defile the Temple, kill many Jews, and be killed WITHOUT HAND by Jesus as Antiochus was killed by a disease on the Eastern battle front. 

AE IV was a Syrian king.

The only thing Greek about him was his religion and a trend toward Hellenism. 

On 12/19/2024 at 8:08 PM, Revelation Man said:

The period of this End Time Beast sees Greece in the E.U. so he's BOTH a Greek who is also an E.U. Citizen because Greece is in the E.U. of course.

Asia Minor, Mesopotamia nor Egypt are in Greece/Cassander. There were Four Generals not 2 right? 

You missed it and I'm not interested in going over it again. 

On 12/19/2024 at 8:08 PM, Revelation Man said:

 

He was a Greek King.

He was a hostage of Rome and after his release he lived in Athens before making his way to Syria to execute his brother and ascend the Seleucid throne. He was never a Greek king.

On 12/19/2024 at 8:08 PM, Revelation Man said:

As I stated, the End Time Anti-Christ MUST BE a Greek Born  King. This is my calling by God for 40 years as a preacher and teacher brother.

If you have to say it, you ain't it. Your words speak for themselves.

On 12/19/2024 at 8:08 PM, Revelation Man said:

 

You guys biggest issue is you do not take all the verses God gives us on this/many subject(s) and combine them all, here a little there a little, just like my point that Jesus had many prophetic utterances about his 1st coming, they had to all be combined to be understood. He's out of Egypt, AND born in Bethlehem, well a thinking, God man should have known BORN is BORN, so the Messiah must have later moved to Egypt for a period of time (he did). He did when Mary & Joseph fled to Egypt. I am blessed by God because I seek His truth in full, I do not jump to conclusions at all.

Why is it everyone else is always wrong and you are always right?

On 12/19/2024 at 8:08 PM, Revelation Man said:

People actually take scriptures and warp them, or misunderstand them, like in Rev. 4 where Jesus talks about the Throne of Satan being in Pergamum, he's simple talking about the Temple of Jupiter, who was Zeus, who was Bel in Babylon and Baal before that. So, they say wrongly he's from Turkey having no idea what  the info means in reality.

Sure. 

On 12/19/2024 at 8:08 PM, Revelation Man said:

As per unto Eschatology ONLY. Any man who can not get the Pre Trib. Rapture correct, I do not take much of any of his Eschatology serious. I mean how can I? If you can not get the right starting point on END TIME EVENTS, them everything is going to be OFF KILTER right? 

No evidence leads to a secret, general pretrib rapture. I understand this because I believed in the pretrib ideas for many years. I could find zero supporting evidence. 

[Revelation Man]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

False. It was written in Scripture in the time of Nebuchadnezzar when Gabriel visited Daniel and gave him the interpretation of his dreams. All one has to do is read and listen. I know that's a hard sell to some.

On 12/19/2024 at 9:08 PM, Revelation Man said:

God has never stated anywhere that the Little Horn will be a Muslim/Arab, that is just your bad interpretations brother. 

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

Age and popularity isn't a barometer of truth and accuracy. Just look at Pretrib and the idea of Rome as the end of the age empire. Wildly popular, just as wildly incorrect. 

On 12/19/2024 at 9:08 PM, Revelation Man said:

Both are correct. Anyone who can't see these understandings I refuse to trust anything they say about Eschatology. It is an advantage for me, if I see thee things I know this person will not be putting forth anything correctly on Eschatological End Time Events on the main, so I just use that to my advantage, I go in knowing they cant be right on anything about the end times.

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

Well, you can't possibly know every prophetic student in the whole world over the course of the time of your awareness. That you hadn't heard something until is became popular isn't a surprise.

Not doubting a few people did, Satan loves deceiving people in general. The point stands, it was not made semi popular until Richardson started writing books on it.

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

So you think Lysimachus and Antigonus weren't major players???

 

Wound up THREE MAJOR PLAYERS [at the end]. Those two and Greece/Cassander. Also, in the end time passage the story revolves around those three, Turkey, Egypt and the Greek Man who comes to power in the E.U. (10 kings).

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

They are the King of the North. Are you sure you're listening to the scriptures? The KOTN is mentioned several times in Dan 11.

 

The KOTN changes throughout the Syrian Wars at times it was the Seleucid kingdom vs. the Ptolemy kingdom. In Dan. 11:40-43 however it is the Greek born man who comes to be the ruler over the E.U. (President)

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

No. You say he must come from Greece. There is no connection to the KOTN and the Roman Empire or the EU in all scripture. History proves Cassander was in the West, Ptolemy in the South, Lysimachus in Asia Minor and Seleucid in the East.  

Looks NORTHWEST to me. Its North and West of Seleucus and Ptolemy. Seleucus via this map CAN NOT Conquer to the East, and Ptolemy CAN NOT Conquer to the South so both are disqualified.  The Little Horn is used in two successive chapters in Dan. 7:7-8 and Dan. 8 and you can't get that means he comes out of both Rome and Greece? Cassander and Lysimachus together mostly became modern day Greece, so he could be born in either one tbh, but not in Seleucus or Ptolemy. You simple can not or refuse to see clues that go against your preconceived notions. 

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

The locations of these kings is based on their relationship to Israel. Asia Minor is directly north of Israel, Greece is west. But neither of those is the beast of eschatology, he comes from Mesopotamia, from the Syrian, Assyrian, Akkadian, Hittite region of Mesopotamia. 

This is borne out by the testimony of Dan 11, which you ignore. 

Only Greece is both North and West of Israel. Seleucus is East of Israel and Ptolemy is South, so neither can thus conquer East and South. Your just grasping at straws brother.

As per me & Daniel 11............................

 

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

Poor interpretation. AE IV was a Syrian king

He was a Greek born in Rome but whose hometown was Corinth Greece. When the USA ruled Japan were they Japanese kings? When the Brits ruled 3/4 of the world the were still English subjects right? Calling Antiochus Epiphanes a Syrian is just you again trying to force your interpretation to fit, it will never fit brother. His dad was born and died in Sousa Iran that does not make him a Persian. 

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

The only reason you think there's a tie to Greece is because AE IV lived in Athens for a time before traveling to Syria to take the throne of the Seleucid Empire.

What part of Hellenistic Kingdoms do you not get brother? 

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

As as you admit he is a archetype, then the later A of D in the eschatological time frame will also be Syrian. 

 

He will be Greek, he will have Assyrian Blood, not Syrian, do not mix those two up, Assyria was Northern Iraq and Southern Turkey and it was 500 years before.

Its just you trying to force it, they head Assyrian in Isaiah 10 and elsewhere, then assume it means Syria, then try to bend Antiochus a Hellenistic King into being a Syrian King, when Assyria is not Syria to start with.

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

You should write fantasy novels.

 

That is you calling it seems.

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

AE IV was a Syrian king.

The only thing Greek about him was his religion and a trend toward Hellenism. 

Look up Hellenistic Kings...............

Hellenistic Kings

Here are some Hellenistic kings: 
Seleucus I Nicator: Ruled from 312–305 BC
Antiochos I Soter: Ruled from 294 or 293–281 BC
Antiochos II Theos: Ruled from 261–246 BC
Seleukos II Kallinikos: Ruled from 246–226/5 BC
Seleukos III: Ruled from 226/5–223 BC
Antiochos III Megas: Ruled from 223–187 BC
Seleukos IV Philopator: Ruled from 187–175 BC
Antiochos IV Epiphanes: Ruled from 175–164 BC
Antiochos V Eupator: Ruled from 164–162 BC
Demetrios I Soter: Ruled from 162–150 BC
Alexander Balas: Ruled from 150–145 BC
Demetrios II Nikator: Ruled from 145–140, 129–126/5 BC
Antiochos VI Epiphanes: Ruled from 145–142 BC
Antiochos VII Sidetes: Ruled from 139/8–129 BC
Kleopatra Thea: Ruled from 126/5–123 BC

The Hellenistic Age lasted from 323 BC to 330 BC

Looks like he was a Greek King brother. 

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

You missed it and I'm not interested in going over it again. 

On 12/19/2024 at 9:08 PM, Revelation Man said:

I miss nothing , this is my calling of God for 40 years. Too many people not called unto prophesy love to dabble in it, well that is OK but God has designated people for designated jobs.

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

He was a hostage of Rome and after his release he lived in Athens before making his way to Syria to execute his brother and ascend the Seleucid throne. He was never a Greek king.

On 12/19/2024 at 9:08 PM, Revelation Man said:

Hes on the list of Hellenistic Kings. END OF DEBATE.

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

If you have to say it, you ain't it. Your words speak for themselves.

On 12/19/2024 at 9:08 PM, Revelation Man said:

Why? Is God a liar? He calls whom He chooses for what He chooses. The reminder is because God reveals His secrets to those he called, he did not give his Daniel passages to someone named David fir a reason. That seems to escape you. 

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

Why is it everyone else is always wrong and you are always right?

On 12/19/2024 at 9:08 PM, Revelation Man said:

Because you are in error, I do not know about "EVERYBODY ELSE" I think that is your assumption brother.

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

No evidence leads to a secret, general pretrib rapture. I understand this because I believed in the pretrib ideas for many years. I could find zero supporting evidence. 

And you wonder why everything you say on Eschatology has to be seen by me as wrong !!

[Diaste]

17 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

God has never stated anywhere that the Little Horn will be a Muslim/Arab, that is just your bad interpretations brother. 

Nope. Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, the Diadochi, Seleucus[ruled from Babylon], Antiochus IV Epiphanes[Syrian King] the archetype of the end of the age beast. 

The description of the fourth beast aligns with radical, murderous Islam. The description of the 10 toes aligns with what radical Islam is manifesting today, all over the world. 

I see nothing about the European continent.