Your sins are paid for but have they been forgiven?

[PATrobas]

Reminders Definitions - Forgiveness

            I am so glad we have the Holy Spirit that teaches us, guides us, and reveals to us the deep things of God. ^{John 14:26, 16:13; 1 Corinthians 2:9-10} Sometimes we get so familiar with a word or concept that we forget its real meaning. Such it is this week with forgiveness. The word forgive, as used in the Old Testament most often referred to ‘a release from something,’ or ‘to set at liberty.’ Jesus used the word this way when he quoted Isaiah 61:1 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, [forgive/release from slavery] and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised [forgive/to free from penalty.]” ^{Luke 4:18} Concerning sins, OT forgiveness entailed a covering over of sins rather than a taking away of them. ^{Hebrews 10:4} As we move into the New Testament, we discover a more profound meaning of forgiveness. NT forgiveness means ‘to send away, never to return,’ and is used to completely cancel both the penalty and the action that caused the penalty. In other words, for them who are forgiven by God when becoming born again, both the penalty, (which is death,) and the sin that causes death ^{Romans 6:23} has been removed, never to be brought up again. Even the fiery judgement of works at the Bema Seat completely burns up the deeds of the flesh, leaving only gold, silver, and precious stones. ^{1 Corinthians 3:11-15}

            At this juncture, I want to make a distinction between payment for sins and forgiveness of sins. They are not the same. The sin and sins of the world were paid for by the death of Jesus on the cross, and by that death, Jesus became the “Savior of the world.” ^{1 John 4:14} “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them” ^{2 Corinthians 5:19} because [Jesus came to] “take away the sin of the world.” ^{John 1:29} But just because the world’s sins are paid for does not make anyone saved or forgiven. Forgiveness only comes by a change of mind and a turning towards God, i.e., repentance. God implores all men everywhere to repent ^{Acts 17:30} and to be reconciled to Him by receiving the forgiveness of sins by faith. Payment for sin and sins was made for all mankind, but forgiveness is only given to them who have repented and believed the Gospel. The debt has been paid at the cross, and acknowledging that fact (by faith) brings forgiveness, salvation, and eternal life.

            Final Thoughts: The prophetic words of Psalm 103 sum up God’s great love and forgiveness toward us who believe the Gospel as we read verses 8-12, “The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy. He will not always chide, neither will he keep his anger forever. He has not dealt with us after our sins, nor rewarded us according to our iniquities. For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him. As far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.” Our job as Christians is to tell the world that God reconciled mankind to Himself by Jesus’ payment of death on the cross. No further payment is needed or acceptable. But it is also our job to tell them that they need to reconcile themselves to God by changing direction towards Him, believing what He says and asking Him to save them. ^{2 Corinthians 5:17-21} “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”  ^{John 3:16-17}   _ph

[BornAgain490]

41 minutes ago, PATrobas said:

Reminders Definitions - Forgiveness

            I am so glad we have the Holy Spirit that teaches us, guides us, and reveals to us the deep things of God. ^{John 14:26, 16:13; 1 Corinthians 2:9-10} Sometimes we get so familiar with a word or concept that we forget its real meaning. Such it is this week with forgiveness. The word forgive, as used in the Old Testament most often referred to ‘a release from something,’ or ‘to set at liberty.’ Jesus used the word this way when he quoted Isaiah 61:1 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, [forgive/release from slavery] and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised [forgive/to free from penalty.]” ^{Luke 4:18} Concerning sins, OT forgiveness entailed a covering over of sins rather than a taking away of them. ^{Hebrews 10:4} As we move into the New Testament, we discover a more profound meaning of forgiveness. NT forgiveness means ‘to send away, never to return,’ and is used to completely cancel both the penalty and the action that caused the penalty. In other words, for them who are forgiven by God when becoming born again, both the penalty, (which is death,) and the sin that causes death ^{Romans 6:23} has been removed, never to be brought up again. Even the fiery judgement of works at the Bema Seat completely burns up the deeds of the flesh, leaving only gold, silver, and precious stones. ^{1 Corinthians 3:11-15}

            At this juncture, I want to make a distinction between payment for sins and forgiveness of sins. They are not the same. The sin and sins of the world were paid for by the death of Jesus on the cross, and by that death, Jesus became the “Savior of the world.” ^{1 John 4:14} “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them” ^{2 Corinthians 5:19} because [Jesus came to] “take away the sin of the world.” ^{John 1:29} But just because the world’s sins are paid for does not make anyone saved or forgiven. Forgiveness only comes by a change of mind and a turning towards God, i.e., repentance. God implores all men everywhere to repent ^{Acts 17:30} and to be reconciled to Him by receiving the forgiveness of sins by faith. Payment for sin and sins was made for all mankind, but forgiveness is only given to them who have repented and believed the Gospel. The debt has been paid at the cross, and acknowledging that fact (by faith) brings forgiveness, salvation, and eternal life.

            Final Thoughts: The prophetic words of Psalm 103 sum up God’s great love and forgiveness toward us who believe the Gospel as we read verses 8-12, “The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy. He will not always chide, neither will he keep his anger forever. He has not dealt with us after our sins, nor rewarded us according to our iniquities. For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him. As far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.” Our job as Christians is to tell the world that God reconciled mankind to Himself by Jesus’ payment of death on the cross. No further payment is needed or acceptable. But it is also our job to tell them that they need to reconcile themselves to God by changing direction towards Him, believing what He says and asking Him to save them. ^{2 Corinthians 5:17-21} “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”  ^{John 3:16-17}   _ph

 

Amen.  Amen. 

[Cntrysner]

Man’s efforts in his limited repentance means nothing, being sorry for your sin means nothing. We are guilty and hopeless and without understanding. My God as I know Him is above all this, we are all condemned at birth and death is it’s reward. Christ paid the price for us, and we that believe died with Him, thus the debt is paid in full, not by our repentance or anything of our self or feeling sorry for our sins.  

We of ourselves have no gold, silver, or precious stones.. all these things are of Christ and the lost will be judged by His sinless standard . One can not walk the fiery stones that The father has laid with what they have to offer. Carry me Lord for I am nothing is my decree.
 

[enoob57]

 
Luke 13:2 (KJV)

[2] And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?

[3] I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Acts 3:19 (KJV)

[19] Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

 

[Sower]

9 hours ago, Cntrysner said:

We of ourselves have no gold, silver, or precious stones.. all these things are of Christ and the lost will be judged by His sinless standard .

What God says..

Ephesians 2:10   (Why we were created...)
"For we are God’s workmanship, "created" in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life" (good works includes worshiping God, bring glory to God, sharing the good news, helping those in need, etc etc etc.....) This is the silver gold and precious stones work we do that will not be burned up.

1 Corinthians 3:11–15
"If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work"
Works we have done for self, to glory self, to be seen, not giving God the glory nor understanding that we can do nothing without abiding in Christ etc, wrong motives, produces the wood hay and stubble works that will get burned up at the Bema seat, the Judgement Seat of Christ.
 

 

9 hours ago, Cntrysner said:

Christ paid the price for us, and we that believe died with Him, thus the debt is paid in full, not by our repentance or anything of our self or feeling sorry for our sins.

        You say;    "not by our repentance"

Every born again saved believer in Jesus Christ repented(changed their thinking) before he/she could be saved. Salvation is by grace through faith.
Grace is a gift from God, free to those who receive it. Then Faith comes by hearing the word. Then comes repentance, or not. Those who have eyes to see, and ears to hear, receive light, truth, through seeing/hearing the word. This light chases out darkness, and the heart/mind changes it's thinking, and this is called repentance.

Strongs Concordance; Repent, "metanoia, repentance, a change of mind, change in the inner man"
"The term "metanoia" refers to a transformative change of heart, especially a spiritual conversion"

The change in thinking (repentance) enables the truth/light to come in, and The Truth will set You Free!
As a new believer with this changed thinking, now our actions begin to change growing and conforming to the image of Christ.

Thanks, Cntrysner..

 

 

[Cntrysner]

On 12/21/2024 at 12:51 AM, Sower said:

On 12/20/2024 at 3:33 PM, Cntrysner said:

We of ourselves have no gold, silver, or precious stones.. all these things are of Christ and the lost will be judged by His sinless standard .

What God says..

Ephesians 2:10   (Why we were created...)

Hello @Sower

We were created from the dust of the earth and we must be transformed by His Spirit in us for good works. In other words, His Spirit is the source of good works, we are just the vessel or instrument He uses. The scalpel a surgeon uses receives no credit.  
 

 

On 12/21/2024 at 12:51 AM, Sower said:

Ephesians 2:10   (Why we were created...)
"For we are God’s workmanship, "created" in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life" (good works includes worshiping God, bring glory to God, sharing the good news, helping those in need, etc etc etc.....) This is the silver gold and precious stones work we do that will not be burned up.

We of ourselves can do nothing, it is not a “we do” proposition, it is Christ in us. 

Joh 15:5  I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 
 

On 12/21/2024 at 12:51 AM, Sower said:

1 Corinthians 3:11–15
"If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work"
Works we have done for self, to glory self, to be seen, not giving God the glory nor understanding that we can do nothing without abiding in Christ etc, wrong motives, produces the wood hay and stubble works that will get burned up at the Bema seat, the Judgement Seat of Christ.

Yes, in all things we give God the glory, Amen.

You are separating the gold, silver and costly stones from the wood, hay and stubble, all will be tried by fire. 

1Pe 1:7  That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

The refining fire removes the impurities in gold, we of ourselves are the impurities.

On 12/21/2024 at 12:51 AM, Sower said:

  You say;    "not by our repentance"

The sin “debt” is not paid by our repentance, that work belongs to Christ alone.
 

On 12/21/2024 at 12:51 AM, Sower said:

Every born again saved believer in Jesus Christ repented(changed their thinking) before he/she could be saved.

Repentance comes after salvation, one must be transformed on the inside first to have a change of mind.

On 12/21/2024 at 12:51 AM, Sower said:

Salvation is by grace through faith.

Amen

On 12/21/2024 at 12:51 AM, Sower said:

Grace is a gift from God, free to those who receive it. Then Faith comes by hearing the word. Then comes repentance, or not. Those who have eyes to see, and ears to hear, receive light, truth, through seeing/hearing the word. This light chases out darkness, and the heart/mind changes it's thinking, and this is called repentance.

Faith comes by hearing the written word but it becomes alive in us at salvation. 

You stated above that “Every born again saved believer in Jesus Christ repented(changed their thinking) before he/she could be saved“.
Now you are saying that grace is given first, then comes faith, then comes repentance, then based on your earlier statement comes salvation. 
We are saved by grace (first) through faith, if repentance of ourselves is required before salvation, it is not a gift.  

Eph 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 

On 12/21/2024 at 12:51 AM, Sower said:

Strongs Concordance; Repent, "metanoia, repentance, a change of mind, change in the inner man"
"The term "metanoia" refers to a transformative change of heart, especially a spiritual conversion"

The change in thinking (repentance) enables the truth/light to come in, and The Truth will set You Free!
As a new believer with this changed thinking, now our actions begin to change growing and conforming to the image of Christ.

Salvation is by grace through faith, it is the moment of our salvation when we are transformed via the Holy Spirit.

Rom 12:2  And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
 

[Sower]

13 hours ago, Cntrysner said:

Hello @Sower

We were created from the dust of the earth and we must be transformed by His Spirit in us for good works. In other words, His Spirit is the source of good works, we are just the vessel or instrument He uses. The scalpel a surgeon uses receives no credit.  
 

 

We of ourselves can do nothing, it is not a “we do” proposition, it is Christ in us. 

Joh 15:5  I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 
 

Yes, in all things we give God the glory, Amen.

You are separating the gold, silver and costly stones from the wood, hay and stubble, all will be tried by fire. 

1Pe 1:7  That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

The refining fire removes the impurities in gold, we of ourselves are the impurities.

The sin “debt” is not paid by our repentance, that work belongs to Christ alone.
 

Repentance comes after salvation, one must be transformed on the inside first to have a change of mind.

Amen

Faith comes by hearing the written word but it becomes alive in us at salvation. 

You stated above that “Every born again saved believer in Jesus Christ repented(changed their thinking) before he/she could be saved“.
Now you are saying that grace is given first, then comes faith, then comes repentance, then based on your earlier statement comes salvation. 
We are saved by grace (first) through faith, if repentance of ourselves is required before salvation, it is not a gift.  

Eph 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 

Salvation is by grace through faith, it is the moment of our salvation when we are transformed via the Holy Spirit.

Rom 12:2  And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
 

Once I was lost. Then at a funeral I heard the word of God through the mouth of an old preacher who said "I must be saved, I must be born again to see the kingdom of God. Those words I heard brought light into my mind/heart, new understanding, and prompted me to get my old bible (the word) and I read more scriptures/light truth. I met Christian believers and ask questions and received more light. All this new light/truth changed my thinking (IT'S CALLED REPENTANCE) and I believed in my heart and professed with my mouth that Jesus is Lord. I'm not calvinist and do not believe my profession of this to God and crying out for salvation mercy is any kind of  "WORKS" calvinist believe.

I am quite familiar with John 15, my most studied book. I do know I can do all things. Yes, all things!, in Christ, abiding in the true vine Jesus, and as Jesus says without him I can do nothing. However, I do chose to abide in him or not, I do chose to walk in the spirit, led by my spirit, or NOT. Choice.  As says God's word I posted upstream, I and every believer will receive rewards for their works if they were silver gold and precious stone works, that were done for the glory of God. The works done for self and wrong motives are burned up, and no reward. Believe it or not. choice.

Every person that was saved was saved by hearing the word which changed their thinking to eventually come to a saving knowledge of the scriptures. This changed thinking is called repenting.
           "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,
             when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord"    Acts 3:19

I share the good news. In doing this I am sharing light truth that can change their thinking, (repenting the mind) like you and I, and if they have ears to hear to come to a saving knowledge of the good news..I understand receiving the holy spirit comes when I'm born again. And then we begin to repent of our old man actions, desiring to please/obey God.

I do not know how you have misunderstood so much of what I have posted which included the scriptures to endorse my statements.
Thanks again, Cntrysner..

[TheBlade]

Part of something I read every day.. "even as God for Christ sake has forgiven you".  "Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Shared before but when I got stuck seeing my sin 24/7 thinking no hope.. always sin.. He just asked me what is "righteousness". Its right standing with God. He asked "how do you get righteousness?" By believing in Jesus Christ. Did we not die when He did and rise when He did? What now can touch Him? Nothing.

Haha.. song comes to mind.. been awhile since I thought of this one "forgiven, forgiven, forgiven and free forgiven forgiven, forgiven eternally.

The sweet sweet holy Spirit convicts the world of sin.. that sin is they do not believe in Jesus Christ. " “Concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged”. Again full verse "and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you". It's done. Hello good news

 

[Cntrysner]

On 12/22/2024 at 9:58 PM, Sower said:

Once I was lost. Then at a funeral I heard the word of God through the mouth of an old preacher who said "I must be saved, I must be born again to see the kingdom of God. Those words I heard brought light into my mind/heart, new understanding, and prompted me to get my old bible (the word) and I read more scriptures/light truth. I met Christian believers and ask questions and received more light. All this new light/truth changed my thinking (IT'S CALLED REPENTANCE) and I believed in my heart and professed with my mouth that Jesus is Lord. I'm not calvinist and do not believe my profession of this to God and crying out for salvation mercy is any kind of  "WORKS" calvinist believe.

Amen Sower, when you said “The words I heard brought light into my mind” those words gave you a new understanding. The word of truth brings the understanding by the Spirit of Christ who is the Logos, in other words Christ was revealing the truth to you as you heard His word. As I understand, it is all by the grace of God. 

1Ti 1:14  And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

1Ti 1:16  Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.   

Pau said that his experience was the pattern that we that believe hereafter will follow. Paul well versed in scripture was on his way to persecute Christians, clearly he wasn’t repentive at that time and Christ blinded him. Christ was working in Paul before his repentance. 

On 12/22/2024 at 9:58 PM, Sower said:

I am quite familiar with John 15, my most studied book. I do know I can do all things. Yes, all things!, in Christ, abiding in the true vine Jesus, and as Jesus says without him I can do nothing. However, I do chose to abide in him or not, I do chose to walk in the spirit, led by my spirit, or NOT. Choice.  As says God's word I posted upstream, I and every believer will receive rewards for their works if they were silver gold and precious stone works, that were done for the glory of God. The works done for self and wrong motives are burned up, and no reward. Believe it or not. choice.

Yes we do make a choice but that choice comes after the Spirit reveals the truth of His word, we were lost and without hope. As far as rewards, we are given the full inheritance of Christ as sons the moment we believe which is far greater than any other rewards.

2Co 4:3  But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 
2Co 4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 
2Co 4:5  For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 
2Co 4:6  For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Gal 4:6  And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 
Gal 4:7  Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. 

On 12/22/2024 at 9:58 PM, Sower said:

Every person that was saved was saved by hearing the word which changed their thinking to eventually come to a saving knowledge of the scriptures. This changed thinking is called repenting.
           "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,
             when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord"    Acts 3:19

The written or spoken word has no power in it’s self, God empowers it via the Spirit of truth in the heart of man.
 

On 12/22/2024 at 9:58 PM, Sower said:

I share the good news. In doing this I am sharing light truth that can change their thinking, (repenting the mind) like you and I, and if they have ears to hear to come to a saving knowledge of the good news..I understand receiving the holy spirit comes when I'm born again. And then we begin to repent of our old man actions, desiring to please/obey God.

Amen Sower, God does have the power to change minds.
 

[Sower]

2 hours ago, Cntrysner said:

The written or spoken word has no power in it’s self, God empowers it via the Spirit of truth in the heart of man.

 

Hebrews 4:12,  "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword"

John 1, 1     "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"

Helen Keller could not hear nor see the word. But she could feel the the letters/words pressed upon her hand.
Yes, there was no supernatural power in the symbols she felt or letters we see.
But when they are arranged in sequence to convey understanding, then, if you have eyes to see, truth/light.

Romans 10:17       "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God"

I do not worship my bible. It has been rebound twice, with cigarette burns, with sweat stains,
coffee and beer stains, tears blood and saw dust. I read it whenever/wherever but don't worship it.
I worship it's author. His words are powerful, unto salvation, if you have eyes to see or ears ears to hear.

Thanks for pointing that out, Cntrysner