Hell

[Dennis1209]

On 1/3/2025 at 12:36 PM, PATrobas said:

Reminders Definitions - HELL

            The familiar definition of Hell being all fire and brimstone is derived from a composite of Hebrew and Greek words and their meanings. But combining these different definitions into one common word has caused confusion and misunderstanding about the afterlife. Being defined as a place where sinners will go after their death to spend eternity in unquenchable fiery torment, outer darkness, weeping and gnashing of teeth, and their worm dies not, is correct, but it is a description of a future, not a present place for the unsaved. To understand the Biblical use (or misuse) of the word ‘Hell,’ we must again go to the original languages of Hebrew and Greek from which the English word Hell is taken.

            The OT Hebrew word for the underground world of the dead is ‘Sheol,’ which is also translated as ‘grave,’ or ‘pit.’ The bodies of the dead were put in a tomb, but their souls and spirits went to a holding place until the resurrection of their bodies to either Heaven or the Lake of Fire. The corresponding Greek word in the NT is ‘Hades.’ Here is where confusion comes because of man’s intermingling of translations and misunderstanding of terms. Until Christ’s resurrection from the dead, all people, believers and unbelievers, Jews and Gentiles alike went to a subterranean holding place called Hades. This place was divided into two sections, separated by a great gulf, which the souls on either side could not cross to the other. The side where those who had trusted God by faith was called Paradise, a pleasant place of comfort. The other side held them who did not believe and was known only as Hades, an unpleasant place of thirst, heat, and torment of flame. Jesus described this place in the account of Abraham, Lazarus, and the rich man in Luke 16:19-31. Paradise is where Jesus’ soul went during the three days His body laid in the tomb (His spirit having gone to his Father during that time. ^{Luke 23:46}) We have no record of what He did there, but there is zero Biblical evidence that He went there to preach the Gospel or to give a second chance to them that had rejected Him before their death. ^{Hebrews 9:27} After His resurrection the unbelievers remained in Hades awaiting final judgement, but the believers were raised with new bodies, and both the people, and the place of Paradise were relocated to the third Heaven. Both Paul and John went there and then came back to tell us about it. ^{2 Corinthians 12:1-4; Revelation, 1-22} Finally, the word Hell is also translated from another Greek word, Gehenna, which was a deep ravine outside of Jerusalem where garbage, dead animals and criminals were dumped to be consumed by a continually burning fire. This valley of Hinnom, or Gehenna represents the Lake of Fire judgement at the Great White Throne of Revelation 20:11-15, where whosoever is not found written in the Book of Life will spend eternity.

            Final Thoughts: Everyone’s bodies will be consumed and return to the dust of the earth, ^{Ecclesiastes 3:20} but not so our souls and spirits. After the body dies, the souls and spirits of those who have not trusted in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus for eternal life will consciously wait in Hades until they are judged at the Great White Throne. Today, all believers go directly into the presence of Jesus as Paul taught us, “to be absent from the body, [is] to be present with the Lord.” ^{2 Corinthians 5:1-8} And just as Jesus said to the believing thief on the cross, “this day thou shalt be with me in Paradise,” ^{Luke 23:43} so shall we who are born again, likewise go to be with Him in Paradise.     _ph

 

 

 

I agree for the most part; that has also been my lifelong understanding. Though still Biblically accurate, the KJV translates hell for several different locations.

I do not know if this is accurate, but I heard sulpher is the only odor and smell the senses cannot overcome or adapt to. The very worst thing a person can say or wish is to go to hell, and we hear it all the time in our society.

I surmise Jesus descended much further down than Sheol–Hades to a separate and unique prison. To be brief, given the exact place and spot of Jesus's transfiguration, He made an open show of false gods. Even the gates of hell (defensive structures) would not stop His offense and His church. The Gospel is offensive, not reactive, but proactive, spreading, and on the march, unstoppable.

Talking about Jesus's crucifixion: Psalm 22:12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round. 1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

What and who is behind all this, and what are the bulls of Bashan? I believe Jesus descended below Hades to a special place, Tartarus

ταρταρόω (tartaroō). vb. to hold in Tartarus, to be held in hell.

In classical Greek, this verb describes the act of holding a prisoner in Tartarus, the level of Hades where the wicked are punished. This verb only occurs in 2 Pet 2:4, referring to where the fallen angels are sent to be punished (compare Luke 8:31).^[1] Luke 8:31 And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep (abyssos).

1 Peter 3:19-20 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; ²⁰ Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell (Tartarus), and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

The angels that sinned are associated with Genesis 3:15 & Genesis 6:1-5. Specifically, the 200 Watchers that descended atop Mt. Hermon corrupted all of mankind save eight. Both Peter and Jude quote Enoch:

Jude 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

In context, I believe these spirits (fallen angels that sinned against creation) in Tartarus are the ones Jesus preached to and claimed victory once and for all.

Every spirit (pneuma), the saved or lost, returns to the Lord at physical death. Angels not so, as they do not die as elohim.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

---

^[1] Benjamin M. Austin, “Afterlife,” ed. Douglas Mangum et al., Lexham Theological Wordbook, Lexham Bible Reference Series (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2014).

[AdHoc]

2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

I agree for the most part; that has also been my lifelong understanding. Though still Biblically accurate, the KJV translates hell for several different locations.

I do not know if this is accurate, but I heard sulpher is the only odor and smell the senses cannot overcome or adapt to. The very worst thing a person can say or wish is to go to hell, and we hear it all the time in our society.

I surmise Jesus descended much further down than Sheol–Hades to a separate and unique prison. To be brief, given the exact place and spot of Jesus's transfiguration, He made an open show of false gods. Even the gates of hell (defensive structures) would not stop His offense and His church. The Gospel is offensive, not reactive, but proactive, spreading, and on the march, unstoppable.

Talking about Jesus's crucifixion: Psalm 22:12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round. 1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

What and who is behind all this, and what are the bulls of Bashan? I believe Jesus descended below Hades to a special place, Tartarus

ταρταρόω (tartaroō). vb. to hold in Tartarus, to be held in hell.

In classical Greek, this verb describes the act of holding a prisoner in Tartarus, the level of Hades where the wicked are punished. This verb only occurs in 2 Pet 2:4, referring to where the fallen angels are sent to be punished (compare Luke 8:31).^[1] Luke 8:31 And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep (abyssos).

1 Peter 3:19-20 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; ²⁰ Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell (Tartarus), and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

The angels that sinned are associated with Genesis 3:15 & Genesis 6:1-5. Specifically, the 200 Watchers that descended atop Mt. Hermon corrupted all of mankind save eight. Both Peter and Jude quote Enoch:

Jude 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

In context, I believe these spirits (fallen angels that sinned against creation) in Tartarus are the ones Jesus preached to and claimed victory once and for all.

Every spirit (pneuma), the saved or lost, returns to the Lord at physical death. Angels not so, as they do not die as elohim.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

---

^[1] Benjamin M. Austin, “Afterlife,” ed. Douglas Mangum et al., Lexham Theological Wordbook, Lexham Bible Reference Series (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2014).

Some good material here brother. Tartaroo has "spirits". Hades has "souls". The spirit of man returns to God at death. Thus, Tartaroo must be a prison for angels.

[Indentured Servant]

Nicely written and thorough enough to not add anything to it. 

 

[PATrobas]

3 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

1 Peter 3:19-20 By which also he went and ²⁰ Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Hi Dennis, Space constraints prevented me from speaking about Tartarus and I mostly agree with you. However, I see your proposal of Jesus going there between His death and resurrection in question. No big deal, but I see 1 Peter 3:19-20 referring to the HS ministering through Noah to them watching him build the ark, who then perished and are now awaiting judgement in Hades. "preached unto the spirits [who are now] in prison;" Like I said two dif. views and we'll find out for sure some day. The division of soul and spirit is difficult, which at times I think that only the living Lord Jesus can do (Hebrews 4:12) and I find impossible. Oh well. I keep trying. Blessings.

[AdHoc]

21 hours ago, PATrobas said:

Hi Dennis, Space constraints prevented me from speaking about Tartarus and I mostly agree with you. However, I see your proposal of Jesus going there between His death and resurrection in question. No big deal, but I see 1 Peter 3:19-20 referring to the HS ministering through Noah to them watching him build the ark, who then perished and are now awaiting judgement in Hades. "preached unto the spirits [who are now] in prison;" Like I said two dif. views and we'll find out for sure some day. The division of soul and spirit is difficult, which at times I think that only the living Lord Jesus can do (Hebrews 4:12) and I find impossible. Oh well. I keep trying. Blessings.

Yes. The subject of 1st Peter is the Holy Spirit. The subject of  1st Peter 18-20 is the Holy Spirit preaching through Noah in the days of "spirits" disobedience who now languish in prison. Just take away the verse numbers and it should be clear

" ... but quickened by the Spirit by which (Spirit) also he went and preached unto the spirits (now) in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, ... ."

Cc @Dennis1209

[LaMonte]

Hell is a prison of everlasting chains from which there is no hope of release (Jude 6). It is a furnace of conscious torment where the fire never goes out (Matt. 13.49-50). It is a place of severe misery where the worm does not die (Mark 9.47-48).

This is why I must share the gospel; I really like a Quote from C.T. Studd:

"Some want to live within the sound of Church or Chapel bell; I want to run a rescue shop, Within a yard of HELL."

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

[Cyoder]

I can't wrap my mind around how a just and forgiving God can sentence you to literally burning alive for eternity.  So, your average soccer mom that doesn't believe is going to burn for eternity?  How is that just in any possible way?  I don't know if any human who has ever lived deserves that kind of torture.  God controls and knows everything.  This wouldn't bother him?  Knowing the unending suffering of his creation.  Think about that.  God would know, every second of eternity that billions of people are burning in fire.  I can't imagine anything more terrible.  It doesn't seem logical to me.  Being denied eternal life would seem much more humane than eternal torture. 

[enoob57]

8 hours ago, Cyoder said:

I can't wrap my mind around how a just and forgiving God can sentence you to literally burning alive for eternity.

all of mankind is born into darkness and lies - here is a good treatise on this What is spiritual darkness? | GotQuestions.org
So, the problem is we have to come to repentance of all that we are (darkness and lie) and receive the truth of Christ (God's Word) and call out to Him to save us from our separation from God Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit... When we do this God The Holy Spirit comes into us and regenerate the dead spirit within us and we become, once again, children of God... 

We who have done this are renewing our minds according to God's Word and understand that God could not keep evil with Himself... for it contains nothing of Him in itself... However, God so loved the world this
John 3:16 (KJV)

[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

[19] And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

[20] For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

[21] But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

The only people in hell is those who hate God and want nothing to do with Him...

8 hours ago, Cyoder said:

So, your average soccer mom that doesn't believe is going to burn for eternity?

yes, your soccer mom even! Light cannot be darkness and darkness cannot be light it is written
1 John 1:5 (KJV)

[5] This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Thus, eternity with God will only be that of God's righteousness, holiness, with all who love such... and evil and sin will be kept where God has made a place for such 'HELL'...
 

8 hours ago, Cyoder said:

How is that just in any possible way? 

Understand where you are right now- you are setting in judgment of God~ wow just wow

8 hours ago, Cyoder said:

I don't know if any human who has ever lived deserves that kind of torture.  God controls and knows everything.  This wouldn't bother him?

You need to understand the cross and why God put His Son through that! For all that is in hell are those who didn't think it was anything to consider...

8 hours ago, Cyoder said:

Knowing the unending suffering of his creation.  Think about that.  God would know, every second of eternity that billions of people are burning in fire.  I can't imagine anything more terrible.  It doesn't seem logical to me.  Being denied eternal life would seem much more humane than eternal torture. 

God would also know what He, Himself, went through to prevent it... we, His children, know and that is why we repented in our hearts for it was because of our sin God did what He did on the cross...

[Cyoder]

6 hours ago, enoob57 said:

all of mankind is born into darkness and lies - here is a good treatise on this What is spiritual darkness? | GotQuestions.org
So, the problem is we have to come to repentance of all that we are (darkness and lie) and receive the truth of Christ (God's Word) and call out to Him to save us from our separation from God Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit... When we do this God The Holy Spirit comes into us and regenerate the dead spirit within us and we become, once again, children of God... 

We who have done this are renewing our minds according to God's Word and understand that God could not keep evil with Himself... for it contains nothing of Him in itself... However, God so loved the world this
John 3:16 (KJV)

[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

[19] And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

[20] For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

[21] But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

The only people in hell is those who hate God and want nothing to do with Him...

yes, your soccer mom even! Light cannot be darkness and darkness cannot be light it is written
1 John 1:5 (KJV)

[5] This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Thus, eternity with God will only be that of God's righteousness, holiness, with all who love such... and evil and sin will be kept where God has made a place for such 'HELL'...
 

Understand where you are right now- you are setting in judgment of God~ wow just wow

You need to understand the cross and why God put His Son through that! For all that is in hell are those who didn't think it was anything to consider...

God would also know what He, Himself, went through to prevent it... we, His children, know and that is why we repented in our hearts for it was because of our sin God did what He did on the cross...

I'm not judging God, I'm more questioning my understanding.  I'm thinking logically about the punishment suiting the crime.  Average soccer mom life does not equal being burned alive for eternity.  Who would think it was just to burn someone alive if they shoplifted some gum?  A sadistic psychopath maybe.  I just can't understand this.  Are all non believers punished the same?  So, Hitler and soccer mom both get equal treatment?  Or even better, let's say that hypothetically, Hitler goes to heaven because he repented at the end and believed in God, but the soccer mom didn't and burns for eternity?  Logically, is that justice?  I can't remember the scripture, but I remember reading that basically all will be judged and that everyone will know that their punishment is just.  I believe God is just and it doesn't matter if I understand all of this or agree with it now.  When the day comes, I know God's judgement will be true and he will give me the understanding then. I pray I have the faith to be saved.  I struggle with knowing if I'm saved or not.  I believe as much as I can, I pray.  I hope it's enough.

Am I looking at this whole thing the wrong way? Is it more like if we reject God, we can't be with him and hell is the only place left?  

[enoob57]

1 hour ago, Cyoder said:

I pray I have the faith to be saved.  I struggle with knowing if I'm saved or not. 

My friend Look what Jesus went through to provide you salvation... the whole of it is not difficult as long as you believe the witness of God's Own Word and in that belief, you have repented of your sin and called out to Him to enter you and save you... it is that simple and has nothing to do with enough faith

Matthew 13:31 (KJV)

[31] Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:

[32] Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

The least of faith even that of a mustard seed must go through the process of the Gospel

Revelation 3:20 (KJV)

[20] Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Romans 10:13 (KJV)

[13] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

This hear my voice is the preaching of the Gospel of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus and you opening your heart to this truth and call out to Him. He will enter you and you will sup with Him and He with you- equals an intimate personal relationship with The Lord Jesus

1 hour ago, Cyoder said:

I believe as much as I can, I pray.  I hope it's enough.

A great many people confuse the reality of conversion between flesh verses s/Spirit... you expect your senses, sight, smell, taste, touch, hearing to verify the reality of God but God has not redeemed your body of flesh but will place within your body new s/Spiritual life ... In this new s/Spiritual placement you will begin to war with your body of flesh and it's desires verses s/Spiritual realties you unite with in God's Word. It will be as this in your day to day s/Spiritual walk
Galatians 5:16 (KJV)

[16] This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

[17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

[18] But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

[20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

[21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

[22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

[23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

[24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

[25] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

As you take in the food and water of God's Word you grow in s/Spirit and in obedience you will grow deeper into The Blessed world of s/Spiritual life

John 14:21 (KJV)

[21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

You see belief is an interesting thing... you are attuned to flesh realities such as, let's say, you're on a very steep cliff like mountain trail, steep cliffs on both sides in fact and the trail is very narrow and treacherous and it's night and the flashlight goes out** how will you respond** ?  That is what true belief in something is... now you have only God's Word that warns you s/Spiritually but gives the body no sense of that reality **how do you respond** ?

1 hour ago, Cyoder said:

Am I looking at this whole thing the wrong way? Is it more like if we reject God, we can't be with him and hell is the only place left?  

You have correctly understood God and the situation He is in with judgment... this is why God says this
2 Peter 3:9 (KJV)

[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

You see this is true about God
1 John 4:8 (KJV)

[8] He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1 John 4:16 (KJV)

[16] And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

And as you have questions about hell and judgment in fairness- it is because you do not understand it is love to separate that which 'IS' of God from that which has no part with Him... Look at this world and the results of evil within it... how could God ever deliver His heaven with this sin and evil present? What you see or some claim it is God's intention toward this torture but what is true- God has done the absolute all to prevent that torture of His wrath to occur in each and every individual ever existing...