Was Joseph greedy?

[irishbeast]

On 2/13/2025 at 4:40 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

It's very interesting that you mentioned that Joseph was in charge of the Potiphers house and he did not have a wife and he refused to commit adultery with Potiphers wife which resulted in him being false accused and found himself in the dungeons together with the other wicked prisoners and him being innocent. The innocent one made his bed with the wicked. And he was raised up from there and distributed to all the people who came to him the bread of life. 

. And out of the dungeons he was raised up to be sitted on the Throne of Pharaoh while Pharaoh was still alive and He Pharaoh gave him ruler over all and He also gave him an inheritance for him and his Family. That where he was his family can be with him also. Joseph lived in Goshen and his family went to lived with him there also.

Pharaoh gave them this place for their inheritance so they can be together. He said that this is the best place in Egypt and it is your. 

Think about that. 

Your insights into Joseph are interesting, but I noticed a key omission—one that shifts the entire understanding of his story. You emphasised Joseph’s authority, yet Joseph himself never sought to elevate his own status. Instead, he made it clear that all interpretation, wisdom, and power came from God alone:

"It is not in me; God will give Pharaoh a favourable answer." (Genesis 41:16)

This is crucial because Joseph’s greatness wasn’t in his rulership—it was in his servanthood. He didn’t see himself as the architect of his own success but as an instrument in God’s plan. This leads me to a few questions:

You spoke of Joseph’s rise, but what about Genesis 50:20? "You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good." Does this not show that humility and submission to God, rather than authority, was the true hallmark of his character?

In focusing on Joseph’s position of power, how do you reconcile this with Jesus' teaching in Matthew 20:26: "Whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant"?

If Joseph’s wisdom was marked by his reliance on God rather than his own understanding, how does this align with Proverbs 3:5: "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding"?

I’m genuinely interested to hear your thoughts, particularly on how you balance the theme of servanthood over authority in biblical leadership as its a topic I find interesting. 

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, irishbeast said:

Your insights into Joseph are interesting, but I noticed a key omission—one that shifts the entire understanding of his story. You emphasised Joseph’s authority, yet Joseph himself never sought to elevate his own status. Instead, he made it clear that all interpretation, wisdom, and power came from God alone:

"It is not in me; God will give Pharaoh a favourable answer." (Genesis 41:16)

This is crucial because Joseph’s greatness wasn’t in his rulership—it was in his servanthood. He didn’t see himself as the architect of his own success but as an instrument in God’s plan. This leads me to a few questions:

You spoke of Joseph’s rise, but what about Genesis 50:20? "You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good." Does this not show that humility and submission to God, rather than authority, was the true hallmark of his character?

In focusing on Joseph’s position of power, how do you reconcile this with Jesus' teaching in Matthew 20:26: "Whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant"?

If Joseph’s wisdom was marked by his reliance on God rather than his own understanding, how does this align with Proverbs 3:5: "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding"?

I’m genuinely interested to hear your thoughts, particularly on how you balance the theme of servanthood over authority in biblical leadership as its a topic I find interesting. 

God had plans and He put them in motion without anyone knowing about them. He had to fulfill his promises to Abraham that his descendants will multiply and come out of EEgypt a strong people a great Nation. God had plans to greatly multiple them in the good land of Egypt the land of Goshen. During that time they were not ingaged in wars. No one died in wars those 400 hunder years. And no one died in their bid for their freedom as God did it all by himself. That's amazing and their clothes and their shoes did not worn out and they had perfect health from just eating Nanna and had healthy teeth. And good muscle just from the Heavenly superfood. Forty years eating manna. Growing in the dessert they never showed fish and wheat farms. 

And God had a plan about Moses and He plan to give them the Law and the Levitical Priesthood and Aaron. He wanted them to forsake the Idols and sanctified them selves and having forgiveness of sins so he could be with them as in the cloud during the day and in the fire during the night and quide them in their journey through the dessert. 

No one knew his plans as Joseph said after the fact that it was God's plan all along. 

That time God did not want anyone else and he had reduced the family of Jacob to about seventy people and from them he would make his Nation the Nation of Israel. 

In a way Joseph served the needs of Pharaoh and his people and God kept them alive empowering Joseph with the wisdom he gave him and the interpretation of his dream of the seven fat and the seven starving cows. 

I am interested in everything you asked me but one thing at a time. And I am posting from a telephone. Glad to discuss things with you. 

In Toronto is 10:30. It should be about four hours later. Sorry if it's late.

Edited February 17 by Your closest friendnt

[irishbeast]

6 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

God had plans and He put them in motion without anyone knowing about them. He had to fulfill his promises to Abraham that his descendants will multiply and come out of EEgypt a strong people a great Nation. God had plans to greatly multiple them in the good land of Egypt the land of Goshen. During that time they were not ingaged in wars. No one died in wars those 400 hunder years. And no one died in their bid for their freedom as God did it all by himself. That's amazing and their clothes and their shoes did not worn out and they had perfect health from just eating Nanna and had healthy teeth. And good muscle just from the Heavenly superfood. Forty years eating manna. Growing in the dessert they never showed fish and wheat farms. 

And God had a plan about Moses and He plan to give them the Law and the Levitical Priesthood and Aaron. He wanted them to forsake the Idols and sanctified them selves and having forgiveness of sins so he could be with them as in the cloud during the day and in the fire during the night and quide them in their journey through the dessert. 

No one knew his plans as Joseph said after the fact that it was God's plan all along. 

That time God did not want anyone else and he had reduced the family of Jacob to about seventy people and from them he would make his Nation the Nation of Israel. 

In a way Joseph served the needs of Pharaoh and his people and God kept them alive empowering Joseph with the wisdom he gave him and the interpretation of his dream of the seven fat and the seven starving cows. 

I am interested in everything you asked me but one thing at a time. And I am posting from a telephone. Glad to discuss things with you. 

In Toronto is 10:30. It should be about four hours later. Sorry if it's late.

I am a chronic insomniac, but enough about my personal life!

You've raise several points, but let’s stay focused on the original issue firstly to keep on track—the role of Joseph and whether his story is about power or servanthood.

You said, “No one knew His plans as Joseph said after the fact that it was God's plan all along.” But this is only half true. Yes, Joseph acknowledged God's plan in hindsight (Genesis 50:20), but long before that, God revealed parts of his plan through dreams both to Joseph (Genesis 37:5-11) and later to Pharaoh (Genesis 41:1-32). Joseph did not blindly serve Pharaoh; he was used by God as an instrument of provision and reconciliation.

This leads back to my original question, which you haven’t addressed. If Joseph’s role was ultimately about God's sovereignty rather than his own power, why did he say in Genesis 50:20, "You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good, to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives"? Doesn’t this indicate that his true significance was in fulfilling God’s purpose rather than in wielding authority?

You also mentioned the Israelites in Egypt, but there’s a contradiction in what you’ve said.

You claim “no one died in wars” during those 400 years in Egypt, but the Bible records that Pharaoh ordered the slaughter of Israelite babies (Exodus 1:15-22). That is, in fact, a form of war against them is it not?

You also said God “did it all by Himself” when freeing them, but then mention Moses, the Law, the Levitical priesthood, and sanctification. So which is it? If God acted entirely alone, why did He raise up Moses as a deliverer?

If God wanted Israel to be separate, why did He place Joseph in Egypt to begin with, rather than keeping Jacob’s family in Canaan? How does this fit with God's broader plan for nations and His use of exile and restoration?

You also mentioned the provision of manna in the wilderness, but that period came after their deliverance from Egypt, not during Joseph’s time. This is another reason why I asked earlier how you balance the theme of servanthood over authority. Joseph was given power, yes, but he never claimed it—it was always God who orchestrated events.

I know you said one thing at a time, so no need to answer all of these at once or indeed at all as I know these posts can be time consuming.

 

 

Edited February 17 by irishbeast

[kwikphilly]

9 hours ago, irishbeast said:

Your insights into Joseph are interesting, but I noticed a key omission—one that shifts the entire understanding of his story. You emphasised Joseph’s authority, yet Joseph himself never sought to elevate his own status. Instead, he made it clear that all interpretation, wisdom, and power came from God alone:

"It is not in me; God will give Pharaoh a favourable answer." (Genesis 41:16)

This is crucial because Joseph’s greatness wasn’t in his rulership—it was in his servanthood. He didn’t see himself as the architect of his own success but as an instrument in God’s plan. This leads me to a few questions:

You spoke of Joseph’s rise, but what about Genesis 50:20? "You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good." Does this not show that humility and submission to God, rather than authority, was the true hallmark of his character?

In focusing on Joseph’s position of power, how do you reconcile this with Jesus' teaching in Matthew 20:26: "Whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant"?

If Joseph’s wisdom was marked by his reliance on God rather than his own understanding, how does this align with Proverbs 3:5: "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding"?

I’m genuinely interested to hear your thoughts, particularly on how you balance the theme of servanthood over authority in biblical leadership as its a topic I find interesting. 

Excellent !

All we see in Joseph is humility,servitude and in EVERYTHING he does he gives God the Glory!

I Believe God Could not have Chosen a more Humble,Faithful servant to serve in the ultimate Position Joseph did,in Pharoahs commission

And my my my- I've asked myself what I'd do seeing the brothers who ,out of jealousy & hatred,betrayed me & sold me to the Midianite traders-I can only Hope to be so Gracious

With love in Christ,Kwik

[warrior12]

2 hours ago, irishbeast said:

You claim “no one died in wars” during those 400 years in Egypt, but the Bible records that Pharaoh ordered the slaughter of Israelite babies (Exodus 1:15-22). That is, in fact, a form of war against them is it not?

what is the difference between war and persecution ?  

[enoob57]

41 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Excellent !

All we see in Joseph is humility,servitude and in EVERYTHING he does he gives God the Glory!

I Believe God Could not have Chosen a more Humble,Faithful servant to serve in the ultimate Position Joseph did,in Pharoahs commission

And my my my- I've asked myself what I'd do seeing the brothers who ,out of jealousy & hatred,betrayed me & sold me to the Midianite traders-I can only Hope to be so Gracious

With love in Christ,Kwik

Excellent point! I also see that God in further refining that character commitment Joseph had made within himself so that He was ready for the daunting task that was ahead and eventually by God's extreme blessings removed all previous hurt that might have crippled Joseph ... seeing the fulfillment of this verse always in the lives of God's children

Romans 8:28 (KJV)

[28] And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

[kwikphilly]

9 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

Excellent point! I also see that God in further refining that character commitment Joseph had made within himself so that He was ready for the daunting task that was ahead and eventually by God's extreme blessings removed all previous hurt that might have crippled Joseph ... seeing the fulfillment of this verse always in the lives of God's children

Romans 8:28 (KJV)

[28] And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

 

Amen! Joseph is a great Inspiration for those who have suffered betrayals,abuse,abandonment and find themselves in what seems to be in terribly difficult positions with no end in sight.....Josephs stood firm on solid ground,He Trusted God and Believed through it all

And ordinary person who did extraordinary things and is still ,to this day ,an extraordinary example of what God is Able to do when we Trust God simply because we Love Him- His Will will be Done through us for our Good & His Glory

Amen!

[irishbeast]

3 hours ago, warrior12 said:

what is the difference between war and persecution ?  

Fair question

War is an organised, large scale conflict between opposing forces, typically involving armies, strategies and direct combat. It’s usually fought over land, power, resources, or ideology to cite a few examples

Persecution is targeted opposition against a specific group of people, often driven by political, religious, or social motivations. It doesn’t require an opposing army or a battlefield. It’s about the systematic mistreatment of a group of people. 

War is two way (although not always fairly balanced), persecution is one way to put it very simply!

Hope that helps

[warrior12]

32 minutes ago, irishbeast said:

Fair question

War is an organised, large scale conflict between opposing forces, typically involving armies, strategies and direct combat. It’s usually fought over land, power, resources, or ideology to cite a few examples

Persecution is targeted opposition against a specific group of people, often driven by political, religious, or social motivations. It doesn’t require an opposing army or a battlefield. It’s about the systematic mistreatment of a group of people. 

War is two way (although not always fairly balanced), persecution is one way to put it very simply!

Hope that helps

Thank you for the well defined terms.

The Isralites were in bondage and in slavery when Pharoah undertook his culling. Yes, I used the word "culling" because they were treated like animals.

So then, this was not war, because there was no opposition to Pharoah. surely you must have read these verses.

Exodus 1

¹² But the more [the Egyptians] oppressed them, the more they multiplied and expanded, so that [the Egyptians] were vexed and alarmed because of the Israelites.

¹³ And the Egyptians reduced the Israelites to severe slavery.

¹⁴ They made their lives bitter with hard service in mortar, brick, and all kinds of work in the field. All their service was with harshness and severity.

 

Edited February 17 by warrior12

[irishbeast]

6 hours ago, warrior12 said:

Thank you for the well defined terms.

The Isralites were in bondage and in slavery when Pharoah undertook his culling. Yes, I used the word "culling" because they were treated like animals.

So then, this was not war, because there was no opposition to Pharoah. surely you must have read these verses.

Exodus 1

¹² But the more [the Egyptians] oppressed them, the more they multiplied and expanded, so that [the Egyptians] were vexed and alarmed because of the Israelites.

¹³ And the Egyptians reduced the Israelites to severe slavery.

¹⁴ They made their lives bitter with hard service in mortar, brick, and all kinds of work in the field. All their service was with harshness and severity.

 

Sorry if this is a bit brief and had to look up a few of references which is good to jog the memory!

Fair point on the lack of opposition, but does war require a military resistance? Pharaoh saw the Israelites as a threat (Exodus 1:9-10) and launched a campaign of forced labour and infanticide. History considers genocides and ethnic cleansing as acts of war, even when the victims can’t fight back. Something I struggle to wrap my head around at times to be fair but I get it although it may seem a little backward

Also, if war needs two sides fighting, how would you classify God’s plagues against Egypt (Exodus 7-12)? Was that not a divine war against Pharaoh? Maybe war is too strong. The old brain is failing me this evening - long day!

Curious to hear your thoughts.