WATCH

[The Light]

8 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Before A of D but after the beginning of the Final Week?

Yes. 

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

Yes. 

Closer and closer all the time.

Bravo!

[The Light]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Closer and closer all the time.

Bravo!

I still understand there is a pretribulation rapture. I just understand the tribulation is not 7 years long.

[Dave Watchman]

On 2/15/2025 at 2:34 PM, The Light said:

We are told to WATCH by the Lord. I have run across a three-part video, that I would imagine that many of you have seen. Scripture after scripture is claimed to indicate that Jesus returns in 2030.

Have any of you seen these videos and do you think they are correct? 

Here is part one............Messiah 2030

I am going to do a timeline based on the hypothetical assumption that Jesus returns in 2030. This 2030 date is actually the date that the millennial kingdom is set up. 

I did see these videos. They worked hard on them. They did a good job. I agree in theory with the strategy behind them, but I still think it's happening sooner. I agree 2030 is exactly 2000 years since the Cross. I can be certain Jesus died in 30AD, it's easy to count the Passover that year. 30AD is the only year that fits the Biblical chronology.

I saw you guys were talking about a 7 year tribulation. I don't think we have a 7 year tribulation, but I still read there being a final 7 year span, a final heptad count triggered in various years. Tribulation may be a misleading word for the final heptad. It's for this reason, this count of sevens, which makes me think it's not going all the way to 2030.

On 2/15/2025 at 2:34 PM, The Light said:

So what should we see if the millennial kingdom is set up in 2030?

So this is the thing. It's two different things, the timing of the prophetic time period, and what is the actual event of the prophecy that goes with the time period? If I'm right about the timing, shouldn't we be seeing a bunch of things happening already? Like the Two Witnesses, Mark of the Beast, people getting beheaded, rebuilt temple, Antichrist coming back to life from a mortal head wound and all the earthquakes, and asteroids, and a third of the earth burnt up, and everything else from the Hal Lindsey style end time model? If all that stuff is still coming, we must have more time remaining. Right?

There's another guy using my method, which is actually Isaac Newton's method, but he thinks it's 2 years latter than me. He's using a different starting point, based on another measurement. But he's doing the same thing I did already a few years ago. Which is to question what else could those events be in the above paragraph, if they have turned out not to be what we thought they should be? If the events in the above paragraph were exactly literal, like in the Late Great Planet Earth, it would violate Jesus being able to come back as a thief in the night. We wouldn't need to watch so hard like Jesus was saying, we could just sit back and see it on CNN. Then everyone would know we are already in one of the days of the Son of Man.

It's just that I think it's happening anytime now. So I don't want to jinx it. Or to upset the other guys on the forum by saying something different is about to happen, than what they think. I think it's going to go along fairly normal like it is right now. Nothin much seems to be going on. Some thought the Israel war might be Gog Magog. I think we might be going through the bottom part of Luke 17 and nobody is going to know until the two women are working at the mill and one gets taken and one gets left. People are going to say what's going on, what is happening?

Then they'll say: "do you know what this is?, it's the Second Coming of Christ! 

And all the tribes of the earth will mourn.

[The Light]

2 hours ago, Dave Watchman said:

I did see these videos. They worked hard on them. They did a good job. I agree in theory with the strategy behind them, but I still think it's happening sooner. I agree 2030 is exactly 2000 years since the Cross. I can be certain Jesus died in 30AD, it's easy to count the Passover that year. 30AD is the only year that fits the Biblical chronology.

I thought the videos were a little boring and yet if you want to know the truth it's best to watch.

Yes, Christ died in 30AD

2 hours ago, Dave Watchman said:

I saw you guys were talking about a 7 year tribulation. I don't think we have a 7 year tribulation, but I still read there being a final 7 year span, a final heptad count triggered in various years. Tribulation may be a misleading word for the final heptad. It's for this reason, this count of sevens, which makes me think it's not going all the way to 2030.

I agree that there is not a 7 year tribulation, and I agree the last period is 7 years long. That last seven years will begin when there is a covenant with many for 7 years.

As I pointed out there was 7 year covenant with many made by the UN with the nations of the world in September of 2023. This covenant has NOT been confirmed by the Antichrist so we don't know for sure that it is the covenant spoken of in Daniel 9. It does line up perfectly with the 2030 timeline mentioned in the first post, so we should be watching.

2 hours ago, Dave Watchman said:

So this is the thing. It's two different things, the timing of the prophetic time period, and what is the actual event of the prophecy that goes with the time period? If I'm right about the timing, shouldn't we be seeing a bunch of things happening already? Like the Two Witnesses, Mark of the Beast, people getting beheaded, rebuilt temple, Antichrist coming back to life from a mortal head wound and all the earthquakes, and asteroids, and a third of the earth burnt up, and everything else from the Hal Lindsey style end time model? If all that stuff is still coming, we must have more time remaining. Right?

What we have seen is Israel was attacked on October 7,2023. We have seen things such as Covid and high inflation that could be an inkling of what is to come. However, the seals are still not opened. That event is likely to happen just after the Church is raptured which would have to be soon if this timeline is correct.

2 hours ago, Dave Watchman said:

There's another guy using my method, which is actually Isaac Newton's method, but he thinks it's 2 years latter than me. He's using a different starting point, based on another measurement. But he's doing the same thing I did already a few years ago. Which is to question what else could those events be in the above paragraph, if they have turned out not to be what we thought they should be? If the events in the above paragraph were exactly literal, like in the Late Great Planet Earth, it would violate Jesus being able to come back as a thief in the night. We wouldn't need to watch so hard like Jesus was saying, we could just sit back and see it on CNN. Then everyone would know we are already in one of the days of the Son of Man.

The 7 seals are not opened. I don't think they will be opened until the Church is in heaven. That is why we see the kings and priests in heaven in Revelation 5, before the seals are opened in Revelation 6.

2 hours ago, Dave Watchman said:

It's just that I think it's happening anytime now. So I don't want to jinx it. Or to upset the other guys on the forum by saying something different is about to happen, than what they think. I think it's going to go along fairly normal like it is right now. Nothin much seems to be going on.

Jesus could come soon........like real soon. The Church would be in heaven. Then the two witnesses could show up and the seals could be opened

2 hours ago, Dave Watchman said:

Some thought the Israel war might be Gog Magog.

Gog Magog does not happen until after the 1000 years.

Revelation 20

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

2 hours ago, Dave Watchman said:

 

I think we might be going through the bottom part of Luke 17 and nobody is going to know until the two women are working at the mill and one gets taken and one gets left. People are going to say what's going on, what is happening?

Then they'll say: "do you know what this is?, it's the Second Coming of Christ! 

And all the tribes of the earth will mourn.

When the Church is raptured it will not be the second coming of Christ as the world will not see Him. The world will band together under the UN and proclaim the aliens have come. The second coming will not occur until ALL eyes see the coming of the Lord. This will occur at the 6th seal when Jesus comes for the second harvest seen here.

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The second coming occurs at the 6th seal immediately after the tribulation and BEFORE the 7th seal, Day of the Lord, wrath of God.

What the video is calling the second coming, is really the second advent which occurs after Armageddon when Jesus returns to the earth with the armies of heaven. He sets His feet on the Mount of Olives.

Edited February 23 by The Light

[WilliamL]

On 2/16/2025 at 6:01 PM, The Light said:

If I might inquire, what prophecies are yet to be fulfilled before the rapture? 

Daniel 11:40 - 12:1, Matthew 24:3-29, and Rev. 6:1-14 will all take place in the same period of time before "the Parousia of the Son of Man." (Matt. 24:27)

[WilliamL]

On 2/18/2025 at 9:20 PM, The Light said:

Before the AOD occurs, the Church will already be raptured which will give rise to all the above events. The great tribulation is about the Jews.

Nope on both statements.

Christ's Parousia will take place "after the tribulation of those days." Matt. 24:29

That Parousia takes place at the time of the resurrection of the dead and the subsequent rapture of the elect. 1 Thes. 4:14, 1 Cor. 15:23ff.

And that Parousia brings to an end the Son of Perdition. 2 Thes. 2:8

[The Light]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

Daniel 11:40 - 12:1, Matthew 24:3-29, and Rev. 6:1-14 will all take place in the same period of time before "the Parousia of the Son of Man." (Matt. 24:27)

None of these things need to occur before the rapture of the Church.

The rapture of the Church will be a secret rapture. No one will see the Lord Himself when He comes.

As for the Parousia, that will occur at the 6th seal when all eyes will see the coming of the Lord. He will remain in the clouds and send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. All will return to heaven for the marriage supper of the lamb.

[The Light]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

 

Christ's Parousia will take place "after the tribulation of those days." Matt. 24:29

Right. The second coming will occur immediately after the tribulation of those days. Then the 7th seal wrath of God........one year Day of the Lord will begin.

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

That Parousia takes place at the time of the resurrection of the dead and the subsequent rapture of the elect. 1 Thes. 4:14, 1 Cor. 15:23ff.

When Jesus comes for the harvest at the 6th seal, all eyes will see His coming. He remains in the clouds as He sends His elect to gather the elect from heaven and earth. 

At that time MANY of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Daniel 12

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

As for 1 Thes 4:14 and 1 Cor 15:23 these are not the same events.

1 Thes 4:14 is the Lord returning with the dead in Christ who have risen first for the alive that remain. This is when the Lord Himself comes.

1 Thes 4

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

The verse 1 Corinthians 15 shows that every man in his order. There is first fruits and afterward they that are Christs at His coming.

1 Cor 15

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Now let's put things in context.

The Lord Himself will come. They that are Christs at His coming will be raptured. He comes first for the dead in Christ. He will return for the alive that remain as the alive will not precede the dead. This is the barley and wheat harvest.

After the fullness of the Gentiles comes in part of Israel will have its eyes opened. Then we have 144,000 first fruits from the 12 tribes of Israel. Then the Lord comes immediately after the tribulation of those days at the 6th seal and they that are Christs at His coming are raptured. This is both dead and alive and are mostly the people of Daniel. This is also the gathering from heaven and earth which occurs before the Day of the Lord.

 

 

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

And that Parousia brings to an end the Son of Perdition. 2 Thes. 2:8

No. The Parousia discussed earlier occurs at the 6th seal, BEFORE the Day of the Lord.

2 Thessalonians 2

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

The son of perdition is destroyed after Armageddon which occurs in the seventh seal.

[WilliamL]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

The rapture of the Church will be a secret rapture. No one will see the Lord Himself when He comes.

Rev. 1:7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

1 hour ago, The Light said:

As for the Parousia, that will occur at the 6th seal when all eyes will see the coming of the Lord.

Agreed.

1 hour ago, The Light said:

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Christ's Parousia will take place "after the tribulation of those days." Matt. 24:29

Right. The second coming will occur immediately after the tribulation of those days.

The Parousia IS the so-called "second coming," which actual term is never used in the NT.

1 hour ago, The Light said:

The Lord Himself will come. They that are Christs at His coming will be raptured. He comes first for the dead in Christ. He will return for the alive that remain as the alive will not precede the dead. This is the barley and wheat harvest.

The elect are the firstfruits/firstborn only, not the harvests spoken of in Rev. 14. The firstfruits are taken to the (heavenly) Tabernacle of God; the harvest is gathered to earthly "barns," per Matt. 13.

1 hour ago, The Light said:

2 Thessalonians 2

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

The son of perdition is destroyed after Armageddon which occurs in the seventh seal.

No, the Son of Perdition will meet his demise at the Parousia, long before Armageddon. The Son of Perdition IS NOT the Beast.

2 Thes. 2:7 NKJV For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one [= verse 3's Son of Perdition] will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming [Greek, Parousia].

Edited February 23 by WilliamL