Unravelling Revelation

[AdHoc]

17 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

I was born in 1947 and am 77 today. So would you like to do your maths again.

`those who were 20 in 1948 would be 75 today.`

No excuse. That was a boo-boo ... But wait .... maybe I can blame my wife - LOL

[Deborah_]

Revelation 19:11-20:10

We now know (if we’ve been paying attention) that world history is an ongoing conflict between good and evil. But how and when will it end? It will end when the rightful King comes to claim His Kingdom (Revelation 19:11-21). This all-conquering King is none other than Jesus; yet it is Jesus as we have never seen Him before!. There’s blood on His robe - but the battle hasn’t yet begun, so it must be His own blood (shed in sacrifice). He’s accompanied by an escort, a veritable army - yet they are unarmed, and are probably not angels, but saints (I Thessalonians 4:14). Truth is His only weapon (see Isaiah 49:2) - but it will strike terror into the hearts of sinners, and all resistance will crumble before Him. The outcome of this final great battle, the battle of Armageddon, is a foregone conclusion, and yet the followers of the Beast will refuse to surrender; like the inhabitants of Canaan (see Joshua 11:1-6), they believe that together they have the power to resist Christ’s “invasion”, and so they will fight to the bitter end. But the battle ends with the capture and execution of Satan’s agents, the two beasts - and this time the Beast will never come back! As for their vast army, it ends up as nothing more than bird food!

The next section (Revelation 20:1-10) concerns what happens to the devil and the saints. When Jesus was raised from the dead, Satan was bound and his activities were seriously curtailed (Matthew 12:29). This is what enables the Church to evangelise the nations. But it’s not all over yet, because Satan hasn’t been rendered totally powerless. Like an imprisoned Mafia boss, he’s alive and kicking, and still at work through his agents (especially the two beasts), disrupting and hindering the progress of the Gospel. But because he’s under restraint, evil is prevented from completely taking over the world. Meanwhile, those who have suffered and died for their faith in Jesus are not lost. “The one who believes in Me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives bny believing in Me will never die.” (John 11:25,26) We still have to undergo physical death; but although our bodies will decompose, our spirits will go on living with Christ! Unbelievers, however, have nothing to look forward to after death; they won’t be resurrected until the final judgement. And what awaits them after that is the ‘second death’ (from which there will be no return).

But one day (a day determined by God) Satan will re-emerge to wreak havoc on the earth one last time. At his instigation, the whole world will rise up in a sustained and co-ordinated campaign against God and His people. But despite its ferocity and intensity, this final rebellion will be short-lived. The people of God (who represent Him on earth) will come under attack, and the enemy will seem on the point of obliterating us - but they’re the ones who will be destroyed, when God intervenes. And that will mark the end of Satan’s ambitions; he will suffer the punishment that he deserves. Along with the two beasts, he will suffer eternal conscious torment in Hell.

(NB In keeping with a generally symbolic interpretation of Revelation, the millennium is also assumed to be symbolic. I'm aware that other views are strongly held by many people, and all of them have their pros and cons.)

[Revelation Man]

On 2/28/2025 at 9:24 AM, AdHoc said:

On this we can agree. But as if the pot wasn't cooking enough, here is one more.

The Bible uses the word "generation" in its true sense - that which is generated. The nearest it comes to giving the duration of time until the next offspring is perhaps the four generations of Israel that were in Egypt (Gen.15:13). But since David wrote the Psalms, and man's years are three score and ten, this cannot be used.

Added to this if 2o years is the age used of responsibility and used as a reference age then those who were 20 in 1948 would be 75 today. Many would have passed on a nd so "this generation" as t pertains to age is an invalid argument.

I agree, Jesus was speaking in different terms than most people assume when using generation, but in the parable of the fig tree everyone misses his point when he starts the parable with the word LIKEWISE. We have to therefore understand what he meant by LIKEWISE, and thus we have to go back a couple of verses to tie it all together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation [starts] of those days[which lasts 1260 days] shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

So, we can not understand THE TIMING of The Generation Jesus is speaking about until we figure out what LIKEWISE is referring to. 

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

So, what are THESE THINGS Jesus is referring unto when he says LIKEWISE? Well, verses 4-29 tell us a story of false christs, earthquakes, famine, pestilence, false prophets, the AoD, a Fleeing Israel in a time of troubles, THE Anti-Christ & False Prophet, and finally in verse 29 THE Sun & Moon event that sees their lights go dim by 1/3 (Rev. 8, Trumps 1-4 cause this). 

So, when you see ALL THESE THINGS ends with the Sun & Moon going dark/dimming, AND THEN.............Jesus returns in verses 30 and 31. So, it is self explanatory, all THESE THINGS can only be seen by the last Generation of Jews living during the 70th week of TROUBLES (Jacob's Troubles) when they see this, an Asteroid Impact that causes the Sun & Moon to go dark/dim by 1/3 because 1/3 of the world is ablaze. 

THAT GENERATION is the Generation of Jews living during the 70th week who are living when the 1260 middle of the 70th week, DOTL event happens, so of course they will see Jesus' return, not those who die, but THAT GENERATION, will indeed see Jesus' return 1260 days after this last event(THESE THINGS) happen.

Edited March 2 by Revelation Man

[DeighAnn]

On 2/26/2025 at 8:47 AM, abcdef said:

How many souls were saved from the OT covenant and prior to that? (Millions? Billions?)

Not that many, not that many had been born.  Prior to Christ being raised, there were few because being guilty of one sin or thousands didn't matter under the law as far as being raised up at the death of the flesh and blood house/tent. 

  

On 2/26/2025 at 8:47 AM, abcdef said:

Where are those souls right now? In heaven with Jesus, they resurrected with Jesus in 33 AD. They are the 144000 children of Israel and the multitude of gentiles in Rev 7.

Rev 4:1-2, is not a resur/rapt, John only is taken through the door, literally. 

Some of the children of Israel were faithful and some were not.

Agreed.  The captivity held 'under the law' along with 

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 


 

 

On 2/26/2025 at 8:47 AM, abcdef said:

Some of the children of Israel were faithful and some were not.

Don't they fall under the gifts and calling of God?

 

[Locust]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

1260 days

has already happen

so what's next?

[Locust]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

So, when you see ALL THESE THINGS ends with the Sun & Moon going dark/dimming, AND THE.............Jesus returns in verses 30 and 31. So, it is self explanatory, all THESE THINGS can only be seen by the last Generation of Jews living during the 70th week of TROUBLES (Jacob's Troubles) when they see this, an Asteroid Impact that causes the Sun & Moon to go dark/dim by 1/3 because 1/3 of the world is ablaze. 

what about ''and the stars shall fall from heaven,''  

which stars are so close to earth that they will fall to earth    ? have you considered you are reading a hyperbole?

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, Locust said:

has already happen

so what's next?

Will not happen until the middle of the 70th week, thus 3.5 years AFTER the Pre Trib. Rapture.

2 hours ago, Locust said:

what about ''and the stars shall fall from heaven,''  

which stars are so close to earth that they will fall to earth    ? have you considered you are reading a hyperbole?

The same word used for Stars = Aster, which the word Asteroid derives from, of course no Star has ever hit the earth, maybe fragments of Planets have, but stars are pretty Gas balls, but they thought a space rock coming in on fire was a STAR, of course they would, so everything is relevant to that moments understandings of those people living at that time. 

The Asteroid is the Mountain cast into the Sea in Rev. 8. Its not a star. Also, Angels are called stars, so when  it speaks of Untimely Figs being cast down to earth, I assume that is Satan and His demons being cast down to earth at the 1260 middle of the week events (DOTL)

Edited March 1 by Revelation Man

[DeighAnn]

On 2/26/2025 at 8:47 AM, abcdef said:

The 1/2 hour of silence and the 7 trumpets are about unbelieving Israel after 70 AD.

Parallel passages to Rev 6, would be Matt 24, Lk:21, Mk 13, and Ezek 5.

"For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth." Amos 9:9 KJV
 

8Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD.

9For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

10All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.

The Restoration of Israel

11In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

12That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.

13Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.

14And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.

15And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.




 

On 2/26/2025 at 8:47 AM, abcdef said:

Rom 9:14-27.

I don't know how that addresses the question.  

On 2/26/2025 at 8:47 AM, abcdef said:

"We have no king but Caesar", Jn 19:15.

The descendants of the 10 tribes that were scattered centuries previously were most likely absorbed into the gentile nations and did not even know about their ancestors being descendants of Jacob.

They would not be conscious 0f the Law, the Prophets, and pervious covenants.

They ceased to be a people when they were scattered and their descendants lost their knowledge of God. 

Since they didn't know about Jesus, then how could they reject Him?

The children of Israel at that time and place, the authorities, and symbolically  Jerusalem, all rejected Jesus and the new covenant at the time of His life on earth.

Those scattered centuries before who were not present at that time did not play a role in the rejection and should not be considered as a group in the rejection calculation, in my opinion.

"For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth." Amos 9:9 KJV


Would seem they would have to become Christians....

 

 

On 2/26/2025 at 8:47 AM, abcdef said:

I'm not sure what you are saying. Jews are not from the tribe of Judah?

Not those Jews.  Jews can be inhabitants of Jerusalem, not of the bloodline at all.  


 

[Locust]

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Will not happen until the middle of the 70th week, thus 3.5 years AFTER the Pre Trib. Rapture.

The same word used for Stars = Aster, which the word Asteroid derives from, of course no Star has ever hit the earth, maybe fragments of Planets have, but stars are pretty Gas balls, but they thought a space rock coming in on fire was a STAR, of course they would, so everything is relevant to that moments understandings of those people living at that time. 

The Asteroid is the Mountain cast into the Sea in Rev. 8. Its not a star. Also, Angels are called stars, so when  it speaks of Untimely Figs being cast down to earth, I assume that is Satan and His demons being cast down to earth at the 1260 middle of the week events (DOTL)

what if I were to tell you stars give guidance?? for a star to fall means it has lost its ability the show people the way. stars are leaders of mankind both religious leaders and political leaders, that have lost there position of authority

[Revelation Man]

9 minutes ago, Locust said:

what if I were to tell you stars give guidance?? for a star to fall means it has lost its ability the show people the way. stars are leaders of mankind both religious leaders and political leaders, that have lost there position of authority

Do you even listen? I just stated the word used for star is the Greek word Aster, and that is also the word used for asteroid. Stars are gas and thus are not going to become asteroids in most cases.