Yes, Jesus meant TODAY in his message to the thief on the cross

[Frits]

5 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Dear brother, the writer of Ecclesiastics could be mentally retarded and ALL he said would be true. The writer was inspired. His words are "God breathed". Once you deviate from an absolute belief in the truth of this, you make mistakes.

I think the Lord Jesus Christ knows better than the writer of Ecclesiastics, and all the other writers of the Tanakh, even Moses. (John 1:17)

Furthermore, it is generally accepted that Solomon is the author of Ecclesiastics, do you agree? At first he loved the Lord (1 Kings 3:3), but do you know what happened to Solomon and what Scripture says about this man?

1Ko 11:5-6 KJV 
5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. 
6 And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.

[Frits]

6 hours ago, AdHoc said:

The truth that Jesus followed an established pattern is true for ALL men.

No. The fixed pattern that applies to all people, did NOT apply to the Lord Jesus Christ, because He alone entered Hades without OWN sin guilt. Our Redeemer took our sins upon Himself, and that is why He had to die!

When He had paid everything and accomplished everything (John 17:4, John 19:30), He, by commanding His Spirit into the hands of His Father (Luke 23:46), took His Royal authority back upon Himself.

Jesus Christ died according to the flesh, but He was made alive according to the spirit (1Pe. 3:18), in the hands of His Father. And only then, as the Great Conqueror, did the Eternal Living Kurios Jesus Christ enter the realm of the dead! (read Ps. 24:7-10) His Holy Spirit was therefore with Him in the realm of the dead, according to Acts 2:27.

[Frits]

7 hours ago, AdHoc said:

He is not recorded as being loveless. He is recorded as calling Abraham "father" which makes him a Jew.

There are many Jews in our time who are loveless, you can see that daily on your TV. But also in the time of the Lord Jesus Christ there were many loveless Jews in Israel!

That is precisely why, because of their lovelessness, the Lord Jesus Christ preached to His people, they had to turn to Him, love Him and their neighbors!

(Deut.6:5)

[Frits]

7 hours ago, AdHoc said:

If so, the he broke the Law with Lazarus (Deut.15:7).

Yes he has, but the first commandment from Matt.27:37-39.

[Frits]

7 hours ago, AdHoc said:

All men, including Jesus, are only judged after they are RISEN.

You are in error, for the Lord Jesus Christ is not judged, but He Himself sits on His great white throne and judges! (2 Tim.4:1, Rev.20:11)

[Frits]

7 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Your next mistake is Luke 16:22 does not say GOOD people are carried to Abraham's Bosom.

Abraham is a good man. He is alive and the Bible calls him a friend of God.

Jac 2:23 KJV 

And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

[Frits]

7 hours ago, AdHoc said:

You see brother, the man who starts a rumor that scripture is not accurate starts to make mistakes. I'm sure you are fervent brother who loves the Word, but if you change anything in scripture you are on the way to disaster.

You see, brother, I have not changed anything in the Holy Scripture.

Have a nice day!

[Retrobyter]

4 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

@Retrobyter

Jesus Christ was risen from the place of the dead. He had to descend to that place and at his resurrection he had to ascend to the earth and then continued his ascension to the Heavenly Father. 

Shalom, @Your closest friendnt.

Sorry, bro', but Yeeshuwa` the Messiah was risen from the "place of the dead" called a tomb in a cemetery! He did NOT descend to some "Hell." That is a FICTIONAL MISREADING OF SCRIPTURE! 

First, the word translated as "hell" in the OT is שְׁאוֹל or "sh'owl," and the word means "asked about." It's the place where children were brought, and they "asked about" their deceased loved one, giving the parents an opportunity to tell the loved one's story.

Second, this idea is a fictional misreading of ...

Ephesians 4:7-10 (KJV)

7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 8 Wherefore he saith, "When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men." (Psalm 68:18) 9 (Now that "he ascended," what is it but that "he also descended" first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that "descended" is the same also that "ascended up far above all heavens," that he might fill all things.)

But this contains a QUOTE from the Tanakh (the "Old Testament"). So, to understand it in its context, one must go back to the source:

Psalm 68:1-35 (KJV)

1 [[To the chief Musician, A Psalm [or] Song of (for) David.]]

Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him.
2 As smoke is driven away, [so] drive [them] away:
as wax melteth before the fire, [so] let the wicked perish at the presence of God.

3 But let the righteous be glad;
let them rejoice before God: yea, let them exceedingly rejoice.
4 Sing unto God, sing praises to his name:
extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him.

5 A father of the fatherless,
and a judge of (for) the widows,
[is] God in his holy habitation.
6 God setteth the solitary (orphans) in families:
he bringeth out those which are bound with chains (slaves):
but the rebellious dwell in a dry [land].

7 O God, when thou wentest forth before thy people,
when thou didst march through the wilderness; Selah:

8 The earth shook, the heavens also dropped at the presence of God: [even] Sinai itself [was moved] at the presence of God, the God of Israel.

9 Thou, O God, didst send a plentiful rain, whereby thou didst confirm thine inheritance, when it was weary (tired and thirsty).
10 Thy congregation hath dwelt therein:
thou, O God, hast prepared of thy goodness for the poor.

11 The Lord gave the word (Hebrew: אֹמֶר = "utterance, speech, word, saying, promise, command"): great [was] the company of those that published [it].

12 Kings of armies did flee apace: and she that tarried at home divided the spoil. 13 Though ye have lien (lain) among the pots (stalls), [yet shall ye be as] the wings of a dove covered with silver, and her feathers with yellow gold.

(A dove flying away with treasure! We read that God said in Exodus 3:19-22 (KJV) -
19 "And I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not by a mighty hand. 20 And I will stretch out my hand, and smite Egypt with all my wonders which I will do in the midst thereof: and after that he will let you go. 21 And I will give this people favour in the sight of the Egyptians: and it shall come to pass, that, when ye go, ye shall not go empty: 22 But every woman shall borrow of her neighbour, and of her that sojourneth in her house, jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment: and ye shall put [them] upon your sons, and upon your daughters; and ye shall spoil the Egyptians." And, that happened in Exodus 12:35-36 (KJV) - 35 And the children of Israel did according to the word of Moses; and they borrowed of the Egyptians jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment: 36 And the LORD gave the people favour in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they lent unto them [such things as they required]. And they spoiled the Egyptians.)

14 When the Almighty scattered kings in it, it was [white] as snow in Salmon. 15 The hill of God [is as] the hill of Bashan; an high hill [as] the hill of Bashan. 16 Why leap ye, ye high hills? [this is] the hill [which] God desireth to dwell in; yea, the LORD will dwell [in it] for ever.

17 The chariots of God [are] twenty thousand, [even] thousands of angels:
the Lord [is] among them, [as in] Sinai, in the holy [place]. 18 THOU HAST ASCENDED ON HIGH, THOU HAST LED CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE: THOU HAST RECEIVED GIFTS FOR MEN; 
yea, [for] the rebellious also,
that the LORD God might dwell [among them].

19 Blessed [be] the Lord, [who] daily loadeth us [with benefits, even] the God of our salvation. Selah.

20 [He that is] our God [is] the God of salvation (deliverance; rescue); and unto GOD the Lord [belong] the issues (the exoduses) from death.

21 But God shall wound the head of his enemies, [and] the hairy scalp of such an one as goeth on still in his trespasses.

22 The Lord said, "I will bring again from Bashan, I will bring [my people] again from the depths of the sea: 23 That thy foot may be dipped in the blood of [thine] enemies, [and] the tongue of thy dogs in the same."

24 They have seen thy goings, O God; [even] the goings (a procession or march, a caravan) of my God, my King, in the sanctuary (the holy place).

25 The singers went before,
the players on instruments [followed] after;
among [them were] the damsels playing with timbrels.

26 Bless ye God ('Eel) in the congregations, [even] the Lord ('Adonaay), from the fountain of Israel.
27 There [is] little Benjamin [with] their ruler,
the princes of Judah [and] their council,
the princes of Zebulun,
[and] the princes of Naphtali.

28 Thy God hath commanded thy strength:
strengthen, O God, that which thou hast wrought for us.

29 Because of thy temple at Jerusalem shall kings bring presents unto thee.
30 Rebuke the company of spearmen, the multitude of the bulls, with the calves of the people, [till every one] submit himself with pieces of silver: scatter thou the people [that] delight in war.
31 Princes shall come out of Egypt;
Ethiopia shall soon stretch out her hands unto God.
32 Sing unto God, ye kingdoms of the earth; O sing praises unto the Lord; Selah:

33 To him that rideth upon the heavens of heavens, [which were] of old; lo, he doth send out his voice, [and that] a mighty voice.
34 Ascribe ye strength unto God: his excellency [is] over Israel,
and his strength [is] in the clouds.

35 O God, [thou art] terrible out of thy holy places (Hebrew: מִמִּקְדָּשֶׁיךָ = "from-thy-holies"):
the God of Israel [is] he that giveth strength and power unto [his] people.

Blessed [be] God!

This song begins with the RESCUE FROM EGYPT AND THE EXODUS! THEY were the "captivity led captive" through the wilderness!

God first DESCENDED (or CONdescended) to the earth (which is lower than the heavens or the skies) when He rescued Israel from Egypt, and He did it again when Yeeshuwa` was created in the womb of a virgin!

I'm not saying this to someone who doesn't know the Scriptures; it's just that not everyone makes the CONNECTION unless it is fresh in one's mind. This is WHY I quote so much Scripture! (It will help if one takes the time to read the post.)

[Your closest friendnt]

8 hours ago, JohnD said:

Luke 23:43 Jesus said to the thief on the cross who believed in him "today you will be with me in paradise." 

The only passages in scripture the word paradise appear in are:

Luke 23:43

2 Corinthians 12:4

Revelation 2:7

Each one refers to Heaven where God is.

Jesus in his body laid in the tomb (heart of the earth) three days and three nights (Matthew 12:39-40) but his 

Spirit (which is eternal and cannot die) descended to sheol to announce the victory to all sides there (1 Peter 3:18-19)

then took the inhabitants of Abraham's Bosom to heaven that self same day (Ephesians 4:8-10) in that three hour 

time span from his death on the cross at 3 PM till sunset 14 Nisan 32 CE.

Since the cross all who die in Christ go directly to heaven in spirit (2 Corinthians 5:8).

The thief on the cross who died after Jesus died was the first Christian believer to go directly to heaven in death.

Later, when Jesus was raised from the dead and said in John 20:17 that he had not yet ascended to the Father, he was referring

to his resurrected form. He had not ascended to the Father in his resurrected form yet. But in his disembodied Spirit, he had been

in heaven for almost every hour of the three days and and three nights his body laid lifeless in the tomb.

I cannot accept what you posted in the way you posted.

In the way you are reasoning you have put the cart before the horse. 

You are not asking questions to lead the audience on his own quest to search and find out, to get closer to what Jesus had in mind when he spoke these things and Jesus spoke  those words for the thief to understand him and find his peace. 

Jesus stay within the perimeters of the thief's comprehension.

Within the context in Luke 23:43 it was the thief who did not join the others and said about Jesus complimentary things that described his AS A RIGHTEOUS MAN and having the favor of God. Like in the same way the born blind man was thinking when he said about Jesus "that he healed him, God listen to him, God is listen to righteous people. In this way he justified Jesus as a RIGHTEOUS MAN and not a sinner. In the same way the thief on the cross said things that Justified Jesus as a righteous man and more than that when he said to him: 42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”

He did not see Jesus punishment from God but rather honor by God. 

And Jesus replied within his Knowledge and the knowledge of the bystanders which included his disciples and the women who believed in him and followed him. Jesus reply to him Luke 23:43 “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise". Included a message to his disciples and the women who were stand by and were waiting for God to intervene and saved him, Jesus one more time he told them that He will die. That He will soon die Today. Because he said that today He will be number with the righteous jews or Israelites people after his death in the Bossom or Paradise of Abraham to where Father Abraham gathered his righteous children after their death. Jesus declared that he will surely die because he will be number with the righteous children of Abraham. Jesus told the thief first that he will be the first to die and he will be found together with the righteous children of Abraham and he will also joint him to the righteous people of God in the Bossom of Abraham because He forgave his sins as it was the custom of Jesus to forgive and healed the people because Jesus healed also sinners and forgave their sins.  He made them whole established them in righteousness so they will not be afraid.  

Jesus told the thief that he will die a righteous person, which includes that he forgave his sins and that time the thief died in the old testament and in the Covenant of Sinai. This is why Jesus told him that he will be found together with the righteous children of Abraham in the Bossom of Abraham or the Paradise of Abraham. Jesus told him that he forgave his sins.

Did the thief understand or relate to that? He must because the peace of God must have rested upon him as a witness that his sins were forgiven. 

When Jesus said it happened that same day.

They both died and they both were found in the Bossom of Abraham because in the eyes  and the Judgement of God were found to be righteous. 

Jesus used this opportunity to tell his disciples that not only that he will soon die but also that He will be going to Abraham and all his righteous children who were with him.  

From the testimony of Jesus we know that at his death He descended to Abraham and his children as He had declared earlier that Abraham knows of that day, and he rejoiced. 

[AdHoc]

14 hours ago, Frits said:

No. The fixed pattern that applies to all people, did NOT apply to the Lord Jesus Christ, because He alone entered Hades without OWN sin guilt. Our Redeemer took our sins upon Himself, and that is why He had to die!

When He had paid everything and accomplished everything (John 17:4, John 19:30), He, by commanding His Spirit into the hands of His Father (Luke 23:46), took His Royal authority back upon Himself.

Jesus Christ died according to the flesh, but He was made alive according to the spirit (1Pe. 3:18), in the hands of His Father. And only then, as the Great Conqueror, did the Eternal Living Kurios Jesus Christ enter the realm of the dead! (read Ps. 24:7-10) His Holy Spirit was therefore with Him in the realm of the dead, according to Acts 2:27.

 

14 hours ago, Frits said:

There are many Jews in our time who are loveless, you can see that daily on your TV. But also in the time of the Lord Jesus Christ there were many loveless Jews in Israel!

That is precisely why, because of their lovelessness, the Lord Jesus Christ preached to His people, they had to turn to Him, love Him and their neighbors!

(Deut.6:5)

 

14 hours ago, Frits said:

Yes he has, but the first commandment from Matt.27:37-39.

 

13 hours ago, Frits said:

You are in error, for the Lord Jesus Christ is not judged, but He Himself sits on His great white throne and judges! (2 Tim.4:1, Rev.20:11)

 

13 hours ago, Frits said:

Abraham is a good man. He is alive and the Bible calls him a friend of God.

Jac 2:23 KJV 

And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

 

13 hours ago, Frits said:

You see, brother, I have not changed anything in the Holy Scripture.

Have a nice day!

May the reader judge if you addressed my points or not.

But I will answer your belief that Jesus was not judged. What then is this? 

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. (Eph.1:20–23).

And further, you again deny the veracity of scripture for Hebrews 9:27 says: 

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 SO CHRIST ...!!! (Heb 9:27–28a).

The word "SO" means "IN LIKE MANNER"