WHO IS CHRIST?

[Retrobyter]

3 hours ago, Frits said:

When the Hebrew Tanakh was translated by Jewish linguists into the Greek language, the Septuagint (or Septuaginta, also referred to as LXX), the Name of God in Exodus 6:3 ( יהוה ) was translated with κυριος (Gr. Kurios).

Shalom, @Frits.

I know! And that's been a problem ever since! Their AVERSION to using the Name of God gave rise to the confusion! That confusion was COPIED into English. So, now we have both "Lord" and "LORD," and both "God" and "GOD" in the KJV, and we have "Lord" and "Lord" used for both in many of the modern English translations! At least, the KJV kept the Name present in either "LORD" or "GOD" (such as in Ezekiel). But His Name is "יְהוָה" and that name should NOT be forgotten out of misuse or abuse! David used the Name quite freely, especially in the psalms!

HE is the One who led the children of Israel out of Egypt, not Mosheh ("Moses")! HE was the One who made the Covenants with Noach ("Noah"),  'AVraahaam ("Abraham"), Yitschaq ("Isaac"), Ya`aqoV ("Jacob"), and David (pronounced Dah-VEED'). "The Word was WITH that God and WAS that God," but also "the Word was made flesh" and was named "יֵשׁוּעַ" or "Yeeshuwa`" or "Jeshua," today written "Jesus" from the Greek transliteration of "Ἰησοῦς" or "Ieesous." This name means "He shall save/deliver/rescue" in Hebrew.

Matthew 1:20-21 (KJV)

20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying,

"Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name 'JESUS': for 'he shall save' his people from their sins."

It's important to realize that, as with any version, translation, or paraphrase of God's Word made by human men, the Septuagint is likewise a fallible copy of the infallible Word of God.

3 hours ago, Frits said:

It is very special that in the New Testament of the Bible our God is nowhere indicated with JHWH, Yaweh, Jehovah, or יהוה.

Same problem. Again, Greek got in the way. There are passages quoted from the Tanakh (the Old Testament) in the B'riyt Chadashah (New Testament) where His Name appears, but it was given the word "kurios" instead. That is NOT a good thing! Furthermore, it CONFUSES the Persons of God the Father and the Son of God Yeeshuwa`, who is also His Anointed One. There's a REASON why the Trinity is said to consist of three Persons! It's NOT RIGHT to say that God the Father IS EQUAL TO the Son of God (or vice versa)!

3 hours ago, Frits said:

That is because Christ is God and He, according to the LXX, is always indicated with Kurios. And we know the Name of CHRIST the KURIOS: JESUS! 

His name is יֵשׁוּעַ, or transliterated for pronunciation, Yeeshuwa` ("Yay-SHOO-(g)ah"), and He SHALL BE King - haMelekh - the Lord - ha'Adown - when He returns.

The Christ - The Messiah OF God - is NOT God! He USED TO BE God! Now, He is a man, having become flesh, although He is still the Person who was the Word. "He was made a little lower than the angels," and He is now "the Mediator between God and man! "Yeeshuwa` was born of God through a CREATIVE ACT! It's called the "incarnation," but God was NOT "put into flesh"; He "WAS MADE flesh!"; therefore, "incarnation" is really the WRONG WORD; it doesn't describe Him accurately!

1 Timothy 2:5-6 (KJV)

5 For [there is] one God, AND one mediator between God and men, THE MAN Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

For proof that they are TWO, SEPARATE PERSONS, simply go back to the prophecy of His crucifixion in Isaiah 53:

Isaiah 53:5-11 (KJV)

5 But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

[Note: TWO, SEPARATE PERSONS INVOLVED IN THE CRUCIFIXION!]

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it pleased the LORD (YHWH God the Father) to bruise him (Yeeshuwa` the Messiah, the Son of God); HE hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul (His air-breathing creature), [and] SHALL BE SATISFIED: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

One was the BRUISED; One was the BRUISER! One was the One IN GRIEF; One was the One PUTTING THE OTHER TO GRIEF!

Don't confuse the two!

[Anne2]

21 hours ago, farouk said:

Part of the wonder of the Epistle to the Hebrews is that it can  be instructive to those from both a Jewish and Gentile background alike.

Something to consider. The book of Hebrews focus is the priesthood. The very beginning this book speaks of purging our sins, as Jesus our high priest.

Heb 1:3  Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Should we read this book in a Levitical (background) context? If we are, what difference does it make? One I think of is the idea of covenants in Hebrews 8 old,vs new . 

The covenant with LEVI,

12  For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13  In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. {ordinances: or, ceremonies }
2  For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

Of which speak of the tabernacle, it's ministry, and ordinances concerning it....

Ma 2:1 And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you.
2  If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart.
3  Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it. {corrupt: or, reprove } {spread: Heb. scatter } {one … : or, it shall take you away to it }
4  And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

Priests lips the Angel/messenger of the Lord
6  The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.
7  For the priest’s lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.
8  But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

The covenant of their fathers......Levi yet in Abrahams loins

Mal 2:10  Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
 

Heb 7:5  And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
6  But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises. {descent: or, pedigree }
7  And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
8  And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
9  And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
10  For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

 

There just may be other finding/findings in Hebrews if read through the context of the covenant made with Levi......

Perhaps this

Sins of ignorance..Error

Le 4:3  If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering.

Heb 9:6  Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
7  But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
 

Num 18:1 And the LORD said unto Aaron, Thou and thy sons and thy father’s house with thee shall bear the iniquity of the sanctuary: and thou and thy sons with thee shall bear the iniquity of your priesthood.

Nu 35:25  And the congregation shall deliver the slayer out of the hand of the revenger of blood, and the congregation shall restore him to the city of his refuge, whither he was fled: and he shall abide in it unto the death of the high priest, which was anointed with the holy oil.
Nu 35:28  Because he should have remained in the city of his refuge until the death of the high priest: but after the death of the high priest the slayer shall return into the land of his possession.

Mal 3:3  And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

Joh 11:49  And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50  Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51  And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52  And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
53  Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

Just for consideration to look at....

Edited April 17 by Anne2

[Whosoever]

Christ in Hebrew is defined as "Anointed one".  In the OT one who is anointed as David was, becomes a King, or a Prophet, or a Deliverer.  Ha Mashiah.  In Greek he is referred to as the Christos.  Jesus became anointed by the Holy Spirit upon being baptized by John.  It was then he became the Christ and was empowered by the Holy Spirit to begin His ministry to gather His sheep and deliver whosoever believeth from sin.  

The bible also refer's to the Holy Spirit as the spirit of Christ.  Romans 8:9

[Frits]

On 4/17/2025 at 7:28 AM, Retrobyter said:

It's important to realize that, as with any version, translation, or paraphrase of God's Word made by human men, the Septuagint is likewise a fallible copy of the infallible Word of God.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Septuagint (LXX), which was written by seventy sincere Jewish linguists. These pious Jewish people have translated the Tenach into Greek in all honesty.

To indicate the Most High God in Greek, KURIOS has been rightly chosen. (Gr. κυριος)

[Frits]

On 4/17/2025 at 7:28 AM, Retrobyter said:

It's NOT RIGHT to say that God the Father IS EQUAL TO the Son of God

You base yourself on the Trinity and say that God exists in three Persons. But then you say: "It's NOT RIGHT to say that God the Father IS EQUAL TO the Son of God"

With that you contradict yourself, your explanation is not correct!

[Frits]

On 4/17/2025 at 7:28 AM, Retrobyter said:

The Christ - The Messiah OF God - is NOT God!

I have given you ten Bible texts that literally say that the Lord Jesus Christ is God. You have not been able to refute one of them, but you are already stuck at the first Bible text. You will not be able to refute the other nine Bible texts either, but you may try.

[Frits]

On 4/17/2025 at 7:28 AM, Retrobyter said:

He USED TO BE God! Now, He is a man, having become flesh, although He is still the Person who was the Word.

Here too you contradict yourself. For the true God is always the same, both in heaven and on earth. The truth is unchangeable, He is always the same, from before all times and to all eternity!

'For I am the LORD, I change not' (Mal.3:6)

[Frits]

On 4/17/2025 at 7:28 AM, Retrobyter said:

Yeeshuwa` was born of God through a CREATIVE ACT!

You claim all kinds of nonsense that is not in the Bible! For Adam was "a CREATIVE ACT", but the Lord Jesus Christ is God, the Creator. (read Col.1:16)

Please, at least name one Bible text where it says that the Lord Jesus Christ was CREATED, or else admit that you are mistaken.

[Frits]

On 4/17/2025 at 7:28 AM, Retrobyter said:

It's called the "incarnation," but God was NOT "put into flesh"; He "WAS MADE flesh!"; therefore, "incarnation" is really the WRONG WORD

I read this sentence, and I read it again. Then I read what the apostle John wrote in 1 John 4:3. And then I don't have to say anything.

1Jn 4:3 KJV 

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

[Frits]

On 4/17/2025 at 7:28 AM, Retrobyter said:

For proof that they are TWO, SEPARATE PERSONS

To your desire to divide God, I place the words spoken by the Lord Jesus Christ:

'I and my Father are ONE.'

(John 10:30)