Christians, Politics, and Voting

[Orion]

2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Proverbs 29:2 (KJV) When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn. 1 Timothy 2:1-2 (KJV) I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

God established human government after the flood as recorded in Genesis 9:6, giving authority to judge criminal matters and punish offenders[1][2]. This institution of government is considered one of three established by God, alongside the home and the church[2]. The articles suggest that any form of government is preferable to anarchy, and that God has appointed all existing authorities, even if He doesn't approve of all their actions[1]. The mandate for human government includes the authority for capital punishment, which is seen as a means to ensure justice and recognize the sacredness of human life[3]. While government has limitations, it is presented as necessary due to the evil in human hearts, serving to restrain potential lawbreakers through the fear of punishment[4]. The articles emphasize that Christians are obligated to be subject to human government, as explained in Romans 13, regardless of the specific form of government[1][2][4].

[1] MacDonald, William. 1995. Believer’s Bible Commentary: Old and New Testaments. Edited by Arthur Farstad. Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
[2] Wiersbe, Warren W. 1996. The Bible Exposition Commentary. Vol. 1. Wheaton, IL: Victor Books.
[3] Morris, Henry M. 1976. The Genesis Record: A Scientific and Devotional Commentary on the Book of Beginnings. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books.
[4] Wiersbe, Warren W. 1998. Be Basic. “Be” Commentary Series. Colorado Springs, CO: Chariot Victor Pub.

To be brief, there is a government, a structure, and a divine council with participants in heaven. In the millennial reign of Christ, there will be a perfect government. Jesus is the head, and King David also has a throne and rule. Based on how well we manage the resources God gave us for kingdom use, we, too, may be given cities or areas of responsibility to govern.

2 Thessalonians 2:6-8 (KJV) And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The Holy Spirit indwells each believer, collectively called the ekklēsia. Acts 11:26 (KJV) And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. We can say the church is God's representative government here on earth, to influence (participation) our leaders. No matter what form of government.

Kindly consider that all the kings and rulers and authorities mentioned in the Bible were ordained by God, but that democracy, which literally means 'rule of the people', is an invention of man.  Why did the people want a human ruler other than God?  Because they rejected God. (1 Samuel 8:7).

The USA is a constitutional republic, a representative democracy, if you will.  If democracy is something ordained by God, why don't we have a perfect or pure democracy, which is to say: why doesn't the majority of the people rule in all matters of governance? I know why: because a pure democracy would result in tyranny of the majority.  Hence we in the US have something less than a pure democracy.  But has God ordained a constitutional republic? 

The majority, even in our constitutional republic, is often wrong to one degree or aspect or another.  Which is easily underdtood when we see that Yeshua compared the majority to those on broad way to destruction.  

[tatwo]

Greetings @Orion...

I enjoyed your OP and much has been said here at “Worthy” about these matters in the last 6 months give or take a few months. The thing that we can count on is...that as time progresses after a political election all the “voters” can begin to see the early signs “the fruit” of their vote? They can measure what they are partakers of or “complicit” in as you mentioned here in this forum.

For example here we are 25 weeks from the last Presidential election and 15 weeks from the inauguration and all the voters can see what they are getting here...to some degree. Many as it would seem are surprised...and all it takes is one look at our nation...through your favorite news outlet to access truth you cannot get anywhere else...to get a “feel” for how Americans are responding today.

The degree that each individual measure’s the impact upon them...is up to them...but...regardless of how you see it...you won’t see anything even remotely resembling the Royal Priesthood of the invisible spiritual Kingdom of God on earth being brought forth by any government in any nation...and I never expected anything different.

I believe that @timf has a very good post in this forum where he wrote...emphasis mine...

“I suspect that we are told to pray for those n authority rather than seek to be in authority is that there is an intrinsic and basic incompatibility between Christ and the world.

He followed it up with an appropriate Scripture as well.

Joh_15:19  If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.”

I will comment further and probably start a new forum entitled “A Simple Scriptural Response to a Spiritual Question”

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

On 4/26/2025 at 1:35 PM, Orion said:

The Bible doesn't say anything about whether Christians' should be involved in politics, i.e., voting, or running to hold political offices, or campaigning for others' who aspire political office, or campaigning for particular politically driven issues, etc.

No...not in those words...however...like so many things in the Scriptures...it’s there in principal...and those with “eyes” can see it. The politics that are employed in the governments of the nations are based in a “worldly wisdom and reality” and have nothing to do with how the spiritual Kingdom of God is governed or administrated.

This is largely due to the fact that they worldly governments are founded upon the...“worldly wisdom of the rulers of this age” who by the way “are passing away”...this is a “wisdom which is foolishness before God.”

All that really needs to be said here is a quote from Brother James in his epistle...“This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic. For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing.”

That pretty much sums up any worldly government on the earth today...surely all would agree with that? James also reminds us...“if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth.”

So James states patently that those “believers” who partake in demonically inspired activities...are “arrogant and lie against the Truth.”  I’ll just leave this here.

Tatwo...:)

[Dennis1209]

On 5/1/2025 at 9:31 AM, Orion said:

Kindly consider that all the kings and rulers and authorities mentioned in the Bible were ordained by God, but that democracy, which literally means 'rule of the people', is an invention of man.  Why did the people want a human ruler other than God?  Because they rejected God. (1 Samuel 8:7).

The USA is a constitutional republic, a representative democracy, if you will.  If democracy is something ordained by God, why don't we have a perfect or pure democracy, which is to say: why doesn't the majority of the people rule in all matters of governance? I know why: because a pure democracy would result in tyranny of the majority.  Hence we in the US have something less than a pure democracy.  But has God ordained a constitutional republic? 

The majority, even in our constitutional republic, is often wrong to one degree or aspect or another.  Which is easily underdtood when we see that Yeshua compared the majority to those on broad way to destruction.  

I did not go into details or specifics of types of government, but I agree with your assessment. But to boil it down, there are only three types of government: heavenly, demonic, and human. Even some high-ranking politicians admit there is a shadow government (the swamp-a government within government), the one Trump is trying to drain. However, their thoughts of who the shadow government is do not align with Biblical principles (i.e., Princes of Persia and Greece, powers in high places, princes and powers of the air, etc.).

Human government can be subdivided into different categories (fascism, socialism, communism, democracy, monarchy, etc.). An unmentioned point is that all of these are still government, and chaos is under semi-control, but that was not an item of my post.

As you highlighted, most politicians like to call our form of government a democracy, and it is not. I know I am preaching to the choir, but democracy is mob rule. What people want and demand legally at a given moment without due process.

--Benjamin Franklin's response to Elizabeth Willing Powel's question: "Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?"

"A republic, if you can keep it."

Franklin was instrumental in shaping the grand experiment of the Constitutional Republic, a form of government never before seen. Globalists and traitors are hell-bent on destroying this type of government and the representative America.

God appoints whom He will at any time to carry out His plans and purposes. Watch, therefore, has become transparently obvious that we are at the tail end of the age of Grace.

I cannot prove it, but I highly suspect the Lord appointed Trump for this specific time in history to carry out His plan and will; there are just too many unlikely coincidences associated with the Don (improbable first election, assassination plots and attempts, impeachments, moving our Embassy from Tel Aviv to the eternal Capital, Trump's strong support for Israel, a Temple coin minted of him and King Cyrus, reverting Happy Holidays to Merry Christmas, on and on).

Perhaps the Lord has given America a type of Nineveh moment, a remedial judgment of roughly half of America turned over to a debased mind, supporting decadence, abortion, homosexuality, gender identity/pronouns, and abominations, to name a few.

EDIT: Naturally, I do not know the Lord's mind. The preceding are my thoughts and observations based on history and Biblical principles.

[Orion]

2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Perhaps the Lord has given America a type of Nineveh moment

I've given that some thought, also.  Though I don't view DJT as a prophet a la Jonah, I have done a cursory look of his history along with some of his quotes, some from thirty or more years ago.  And what I've learned is that he is consistent in that he has not changed his love of or his perspective on the USA. 

Time is definitely short. And the awesome Day of the Lord is approaching.  We could be in the generation that witnesses the end.  Maranatha. 

[Dennis1209]

13 hours ago, Orion said:

I've given that some thought, also.  Though I don't view DJT as a prophet a la Jonah, I have done a cursory look of his history along with some of his quotes, some from thirty or more years ago.  And what I've learned is that he is consistent in that he has not changed his love of or his perspective on the USA. 

Time is definitely short. And the awesome Day of the Lord is approaching.  We could be in the generation that witnesses the end.  Maranatha. 

No, DJT is not a prophet. I have lived through 14 presidential administrations, and DJT is the most unique and interesting. Watching old interviews when he was a young man, the questions presented to him about running for President and his responses border on prophetic thought. It is as if he knew he was destined to become President one day. Throw in the myriad of other unlikely circumstances and events, and I wonder about the astronomical odds. I do not believe in coincidences.

In his second term, I believe he put together the best administration America has ever seen, which is related to America's best interests. I have some problems with him, though, namely his five I wills, mostly taking sole credit for his accomplishments. He does not give credit where the credit is due, the Lord. Not invoking "Lord willing" with his plans and ambitions for MAGA shows extreme arrogance, self-will, and pride.

One particularly concerning aspect is creating a spiritual-religious advisory office and appointing Paula White, a grave-soaking adherent with other non-Biblical practices. Of all the prominent Christians he could have selected, why her? Realizing his mortality of becoming another statistic of presidential assassinations, I have yet to hear him invoke the name of Jesus Christ; perhaps I missed it.

Looking at DJT's numerous political party switches and his past political contributions to liberals like Kamala Harris and others, I view his quest for access, favors, and political power as the only explanation. Or it could be the radical shift to the left of the Democratic Party and staunch support for abortion. I do not know.

Whether President Trump is aware of it or not, I know that the Lord is using him (as with King Cyrus and many others) to fulfill His prophetic plans and purposes.

The following has not been rescinded: Genesis 12:3 (KJV) And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

DJT is an unwavering supporter of the nation of Israel. His creation of the Abraham Accords was ingenious and unprecedented in history. I suspect these accords will play a part in God's prophetic plan. However, he continues the long succession of land for peace. Not only does that plan defy common sense and logic that it would never work, but taking land God gave and promised Israel is a curse, and God will not deal kindly with those pushing and demanding it.

We live in exciting and extraordinary prophetic times, witnessing God's plan come together. Israel is God's chosen people and the apple of His eye, the prophetic time clock we should pay attention to. Over a dozen major prophetic prophecies occurred from the Balfour Declaration through the 1967 Israeli Six-Day War. I believe this generation is on the cusp of seeing the fulfillment of all things.

[Orion]

50 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Throw in the myriad of other unlikely circumstances and events, and I wonder about the astronomical odds. I do not believe in coincidences

God definitely has a plan, much like when He told Samuel to anoint Saul. 

 

51 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

In his second term, I believe he put together the best administration America has ever seen, which is related to America's best interests

Yes, agreed. He learned much from his first term. 

 

52 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

I have some problems with him, though, namely his five I wills, mostly taking sole credit for his accomplishments. He does not give credit where the credit is due, the Lord. Not invoking "Lord willing" with his plans and ambitions for MAGA shows extreme arrogance, self-will, and pride

Not only that, he thinks if he's good enough, or does more good than bad, he'll get into the kingdom. 

 

56 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

One particularly concerning aspect is creating a spiritual-religious advisory office and appointing Paula White, a grave-soaking adherent with other non-Biblical practices. Of all the prominent Christians he could have selected, why her?

It shows me the (1) DJT is biblically illiterate, and (2) by selecting Paula White he is catering to followers of the Christian entertainment industry, most of whom are also biblically illiterate. 

 

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

I have yet to hear him invoke the name of Jesus Christ; perhaps I missed it.

Only once hsvr I seen him do so, but it was scripted and read via teleprompter. He may have had other instances that I'm not aware of, but I am convinced that, because DJT is an entertainer and knows how to influence people, he invokes God in his speeches for influence value.  Plus he understands that mainstream media is antagonistic toward Christ, so invoking God and Christ in scripted speeches could be his way of getting under the MSM's skin, so to speak. 

 

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

Looking at DJT's numerous political party switches and his past political contributions to liberals like Kamala Harris and others, I view his quest for access, favors, and political power as the only explanation. Or it could be the radical shift to the left of the Democratic Party and staunch support for abortion. I do not know.

I think you hit the nail on the head: it's likely a combination of both.  

 

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

Whether President Trump is aware of it or not, I know that the Lord is using him

Amen. God has a plan for us all, including DJT. This term has been the most interesting to watch, mostly because we get to see evil actors in all levels of government show their evil faces fir all to see: from former presidents, former executive branch appointees, former and current senators and reps, governors, federal and state judges, and RINO pundits like Bill Kristol, Karl Rove, Michael Steele, and so many others.  It's had definitely been an eye opener. 

 

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

The following has not been rescinded: Genesis 12:3 (KJV) And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Amen. 

 

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

However, he continues the long succession of land for peace. Not only does that plan defy common sense and logic that it would never work, but taking land God gave and promised Israel is a curse, and God will not deal kindly with those pushing and demanding it.

As scripture declares.  I had an awful feeling when Jared Kushner's plan included the dividing of the land.  Perhaps God had a hand in ensuring that proposal was not implemented.  

 

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

I believe this generation is on the cusp of seeing the fulfillment of all things.

Perhaps you are right.  We know we are close. How close?  All I can say is, Your will be done, Lord God Almighty.  Amen 

[Ray12614]

DJT is definately NOT an prophet or Christian leader of any kind.

I think he is more of an Cyrus in Isaiah 45. Paraphrasing  . . . Cyrus will be used by God to do some things in spite of him 'not knowing' God.

So . . . the question needs to be thoughtfully considered is: . . . IF Kamala had been elected . . . where would we (the USA) be right now . . . . ? Then tell us how 50 million Christian votes did not matter . . . . 

[Orion]

40 minutes ago, Ray12614 said:

DJT is definately NOT an prophet or Christian leader of any kind.

I think he is more of an Cyrus in Isaiah 45. Paraphrasing  . . . Cyrus will be used by God to do some things in spite of him 'not knowing' God.

So . . . the question needs to be thoughtfully considered is: . . . IF Kamala had been elected . . . where would we (the USA) be right now . . . . ? Then tell us how 50 million Christian votes did not matter . . . . 

If Harris and Walz had been elected, would you be any less in Christ than you are under DJT and JDV?  Before you answer, think about your brothers and sisters in Christ in China, North Korea, Nigeria, and elsewhere that brutal persecutions take place against Christians, but more and more come to faith in Christ as a result.  

We that are in Christ are sealed unto the day of redemption by the Holy Spirit.  Accordingly, we are presently citizens of heaven; the world has no hold on us.  Therefore, think of and do heavenly things rather than worldly. 

Yeshua said we should be about our Father's business while we are in the world; the Father's business is His kingdom, and He is increasinging His Kingdom by and through His word, and we His servants are to do according to His will.  Peace

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, Ray12614 said:

DJT is definately NOT an prophet or Christian leader of any kind.

I think he is more of an Cyrus in Isaiah 45. Paraphrasing  . . . Cyrus will be used by God to do some things in spite of him 'not knowing' God.

So . . . the question needs to be thoughtfully considered is: . . . IF Kamala had been elected . . . where would we (the USA) be right now . . . . ? Then tell us how 50 million Christian votes did not matter . . . . 

To sum up, DJT is the most unique and curious President America has ever had. Only he and the Lord know his heart, but he seems more focused on doing good works and wanting sole credit. Do not get me wrong; I am all for MAGA and Trump's ambitions, but it seems he is relying solely on himself and not invoking God willingly.