The only rich man that Christ said received salvation

[unworthyservant]

58 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Question: Did Zacchaeus seek Jesus, or did Jesus seek Zacchaeus?

I read it as Zacchaeus sought Jesus. Obviously Zacchaeus sought out Jesus because he had heard his teachings and as the account says,"he sought to see Jesus, who he was". So, he had obviously heard of Christ's teaching and wanted to see Him and who it was that was teaching the things he had heard. 

 

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

 

 

[WilliamL]

On 4/27/2025 at 7:04 PM, unworthyservant said:

At any rate, Zacchaeus was the only rich man to actually act on what Christ taught

I would also put Joseph of Arimathea in that category.

On 4/27/2025 at 7:04 PM, unworthyservant said:

If he never gave him a handout, why was Lazarus still hanging out, begging at the rich mans gate. One would think if the rich man never gave him anything he would have found greener pastures.

Because the guests of the rich man, who went in and out of that gate, were undoubtedly more kind than he.

[unworthyservant]

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

I would also put Joseph of Arimathea in that category.

That's why I corrected my grammar in the previous post to say :the only rich man that's recorded in the Gospels that Christ ever said received salvation.

 

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Because the guests of the rich man, who went in and out of that gate, were undoubtedly more kind than he.

Good theory but the bible doesn't say that. The only reason given in the Gospel account is that he was rich. It doesn't say whether he ever gave Lazarus anything or not.

[AdHoc]

13 minutes ago, unworthyservant said:

That's why I corrected my grammar in the previous post to say :the only rich man that's recorded in the Gospels that Christ ever said received salvation.

 

Good theory but the bible doesn't say that. The only reason given in the Gospel account is that he was rich. It doesn't say whether he ever gave Lazarus anything or not.

Maybe the actual scripture can shed some light. The "and" at the beginning of verse 11 joins what was before. The word "added" enlarges the explanation.

8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold. 9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham. 10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. 11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. 12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return Lk 19:8–12.

The Law required a fourfold retribution besides the restoration of the stolen goods (Ex,22:1). Added to this, Jesus was nigh to Jerusalem - the center of the Jewish religion. Again, our Lord called Zacchaeus "son of Abraham" not "son of God". Therefore, it is for keeping the Law that salvation came. So which salvation is to be had by works of Law? Which works save a man?

The answer is works, especially those of the Law cannot save a man in the traditional usage of the Bible word "saved". But scripture does not leave us with this dilemma. We have a parallel. In Matthew 19 a rich man approached our Lord with the question; "what shall I DO to HAVE Eternal Life. Jesus' answer, paraphrased, is, "You have recognized and confessed me as being divine therefore you HAVE eternal Life. But you lack something".

That something was how to ENTER Life. And our Lord Jesus then proposes keeping the Law. The critical piece of information is that our Lord Jesus used ENTERING Life interchangeably with ENTERING the KINGDOM. And the disciples, in turn, interchanged ENTERING the Kingdom with being SAVED (Matt.19:25). That is, HAVING eternal life is contingent on FAITH, but man is not saved for the sake of salvation. He is saved to be a king over God's Kingdom. This the the theme of Matthew 19 and by "and" and "added" in Luke 19:10-11 above makes it the theme that Zacchaeus faced as well. The term "son of Abraham" means that he will be a partaker of the Covenant made with "Abraham AND his SEED".

Contemporary Christian doctrine says; "believe in Jesus and go to heaven". But Matthew 19 say you are born again by FAITH to ENTER the Kingdom of Heaven by WORKS. But the lesson of Matthew 19, and Luke 19 is that you must be  born again AND have commensurate WORKS to ENTER the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God is defined in Daniel 2. It is when Jesus returns and defeats the gentiles MILITARILY (Dan.2:35). This Kingdom then fills the whole earth. The sons of Abraham inherit THE EARTH (Rom.4:13). Again, John 3:3 says that you must be born again to SEE the Kingdom - which John 1 says is by FAITH, but John 3:5 says that you only ENTER the Kingdom by adding a WORK - Baptism.

A picture is worth a thousand words: Was Moses a "son of Abraham"? Yes. His birth was in order. But was his inheritance secure? Obviously not. He could go up Mt. Nebo and SEE the Kingdom of Israel, but because of WORKS he could not ENTER it. This truth is a dire warning and is a recurring them. See 1st Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:21 and Ephesians 5:5. This is the "gospel of the kingdom". A man must be a believer to be saved from your sins and have eternal life, but to be a co-king with Jesus in His Kngdom must be earned by living a life of obedience.

Zacchaeus lived at a time when God's dealings with men was by Law. He sought Jesus - the King. I judge that Zacchaeus being in a tree was indicative that he was entitled, as a son of Abraham to inherit the Kingdom of the King of the Jews. A Tree in parable is a king and his kingdom (Judges 9, Dan.4, Ezek.31). The "salvation" that Zachaeus and his House experienced was that they were fit for the Kingdom - not that they had been freed from the threat of the Lake of Fire.

[unworthyservant]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

The Law required a fourfold retribution besides the restoration of the stolen goods (Ex,22:1). Added to this, Jesus was nigh to Jerusalem - the center of the Jewish religion. Again, our Lord called Zacchaeus "son of Abraham" not "son of God". Therefore, it is for keeping the Law that salvation came. So which salvation is to be had by works of Law? Which works save a man?

I never said that any works "save a man". Zacchaeus had obviously heard the teachings of Christ. He went beyond Mosaic Law retribution and first gave half of all his worldly goods to the poor as Christ taught. He had obviously repented based on the teachings of Christ and acted on that repentance and in faith had taken the action of giving half to the poor. He then made Mosaic Law retribution.

"

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

The answer is works, especially those of the Law cannot save a man in the traditional usage of the Bible word "saved". But scripture does not leave us with this dilemma. We have a parallel. In Matthew 19 a rich man approached our Lord with the question; "what shall I DO to HAVE Eternal Life. Jesus' answer, paraphrased, is, "You have recognized and confessed me as being divine therefore you HAVE eternal Life. But you lack something".

I don't like to paraphrase the words of Christ as it oft times can misconstrue the real words that are recorded in the gospels. So, let's look at what Matthew 19:16-22 actually says in the KJV; "16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 2But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions."

So, it all starts when the young man asked Christ, "What good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?" Christ answered "if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments". When the young man asked which commandments, Christ replied with 6 Old Testament commandments. Christ never said anything about because you have recognized me as divine you already have eternal life as your paraphrase indicates. Otherwise why would the young man go away sorrowful if he already had what he sought, eternal life?

The young man answered Christ with the statement that he had indeed kept the commandments "from my youth". Christ, knowing the young man had riches said, "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me". Christ spoke of being perfect, a commandment he gave in another instance where in Matthew 5:48 He said; "48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect". I've heard all the arguments of why perfect isn't a good translation but Christ explained exactly what he meant when He said "even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect". Now, I believe most folks would agree that our Father in Heaven is perfect in every way, so we know what Christ meant. Now, did Christ actually intimate that this was an achievable goal? He didn't say but He sure gave us a high bar to strive for. In the case of the young man he added one thing to the admonition to keep the commandments. He told him to sell all that he had and give the money to the poor. Christ knew the young man had riches and wanted to see (or knew and wanted to demonstrate) if he was willing to give his all to show his faith in Christ. The early Christian's knew this as we see in the story of Pentecost in Acts 2;44-45 where we read; "44And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need". So we are told "all who believed" that day "sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need" So, they heard the Gospel and acted on it in faith.

Then note that Christ said after He told the young man to sell his goods and give the money to the poor, "and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me". Two things stand out here. First Christ said very clearly that only if he had faith enough to give up his worldly goods could the young man "have treasure in Heaven" or in other words have eternal life. Only then did the young man go away sorrowful. Secondly, he said then "come and follow me". he didn't tell the young man he could follow Him just because he had kept the commandments or had recognized Christ as divine, but only after he had the faith to give away his riches.

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

Contemporary Christian doctrine says; "believe in Jesus and go to heaven". But Matthew 19 say you are born again by FAITH to ENTER the Kingdom of Heaven by WORKS. But the lesson of Matthew 19, and Luke 19 is that you must be  born again AND have commensurate WORKS to ENTER the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God is defined in Daniel 2. It is when Jesus returns and defeats the gentiles MILITARILY (Dan.2:35). This Kingdom then fills the whole earth. The sons of Abraham inherit THE EARTH (Rom.4:13). Again, John 3:3 says that you must be born again to SEE the Kingdom - which John 1 says is by FAITH, but John 3:5 says that you only ENTER the Kingdom by adding a WORK - Baptism.

If we pick and choose certain verses and put them together, you can make an argument for many things. I prefer to take the teachings of Christ in their totality. I'm not going to get into the weeds with each individual verse out of context but suffice it to say that Christ taught, faith, repentance, baptism and works.

[AdHoc]

12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

King James Version (WORDsearch Edition) (WORDsearch, n.d.), 2 Th 3:12.

10 hours ago, unworthyservant said:

I never said that any works "save a man". Zacchaeus had obviously heard the teachings of Christ. He went beyond Mosaic Law retribution and first gave half of all his worldly goods to the poor as Christ taught. He had obviously repented based on the teachings of Christ and acted on that repentance and in faith had taken the action of giving half to the poor. He then made Mosaic Law retribution.

"

I don't like to paraphrase the words of Christ as it oft times can misconstrue the real words that are recorded in the gospels. So, let's look at what Matthew 19:16-22 actually says in the KJV; "16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 2But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions."

So, it all starts when the young man asked Christ, "What good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?" Christ answered "if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments". When the young man asked which commandments, Christ replied with 6 Old Testament commandments. Christ never said anything about because you have recognized me as divine you already have eternal life as your paraphrase indicates. Otherwise why would the young man go away sorrowful if he already had what he sought, eternal life?

The young man answered Christ with the statement that he had indeed kept the commandments "from my youth". Christ, knowing the young man had riches said, "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me". Christ spoke of being perfect, a commandment he gave in another instance where in Matthew 5:48 He said; "48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect". I've heard all the arguments of why perfect isn't a good translation but Christ explained exactly what he meant when He said "even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect". Now, I believe most folks would agree that our Father in Heaven is perfect in every way, so we know what Christ meant. Now, did Christ actually intimate that this was an achievable goal? He didn't say but He sure gave us a high bar to strive for. In the case of the young man he added one thing to the admonition to keep the commandments. He told him to sell all that he had and give the money to the poor. Christ knew the young man had riches and wanted to see (or knew and wanted to demonstrate) if he was willing to give his all to show his faith in Christ. The early Christian's knew this as we see in the story of Pentecost in Acts 2;44-45 where we read; "44And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need". So we are told "all who believed" that day "sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need" So, they heard the Gospel and acted on it in faith.

Then note that Christ said after He told the young man to sell his goods and give the money to the poor, "and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me". Two things stand out here. First Christ said very clearly that only if he had faith enough to give up his worldly goods could the young man "have treasure in Heaven" or in other words have eternal life. Only then did the young man go away sorrowful. Secondly, he said then "come and follow me". he didn't tell the young man he could follow Him just because he had kept the commandments or had recognized Christ as divine, but only after he had the faith to give away his riches.

If we pick and choose certain verses and put them together, you can make an argument for many things. I prefer to take the teachings of Christ in their totality. I'm not going to get into the weeds with each individual verse out of context but suffice it to say that Christ taught, faith, repentance, baptism and works.

Thank you for your reply. I've read through it twice. If I've understood correctly you have objected to two things;
1. I paraphrased Jesus' answer about having eternal life
2. I picked and chose verses and then strung them together to make an argument.

I'll grant you that paraphrasing carries dangers and will avoid doing it as far as possible. But it was interesting that you did it in your commentary about being perfect. The meaning you gave is that men must be as perfect as God. But the Greek word rendered "perfect" means "of full age" or "mature". And you only quote one single select verse from Matthew 5. I would say that you make rules for others that you don't conform to yourself.

Then, on examination of your exegesis the following is observed.
1. You make no comment on the salient point. The young man asked how he could HAVE eternal life, bt ur Lord Jesus answerd how he might ENTER life.
2. You mad no comment of the statement by our Lord Jesus that ENTERING LIFE was had by keeping the Law.
3. You made no statement as to the fact that keeping the Law guarantees wealth. he man's wealth was God keping His side of the Covenant of Sinai (Lev 26 and Deut.28)

That means that our Lord Jesus demanded he give away what God gave to fulfill His promises. Not worth a comment? And you say that the gospel on which the Church at Jerusalem acted in faith was to sell all and distribute among the saints as needed. I ask you then to show this gospel of socialism. What say you then of 2nd Thessalonians 3:12 where we are commanded to work and eat our own bread? Was the socialism of Jerusalem successful? Or did it land in the death of two believers?

Finally, you do not clearly say why salvation, and what "salvation", came to Zacchaeus' House. The Lord asked the rich man who kept the law for ALL his possession, but Zacchaeus and his house are saved by just amending a broken Law and for HALF his goods. has the Lord got double standards - one for Law-keepers and one for Law-breakers? And then, please  explain hw works of Law et you eternal life?

[WilliamL]

On 4/29/2025 at 3:33 PM, unworthyservant said:

On 4/29/2025 at 1:02 PM, WilliamL said:

Because the guests of the rich man, who went in and out of that gate, were undoubtedly more kind than he.

Good theory but the bible doesn't say that. The only reason given in the Gospel account is that he was rich. It doesn't say whether he ever gave Lazarus anything or not.

The Bible doesn't deny that either. (That others who went in and out of the rich man's gate were undoubtedly more generous than he; which would be a reason why Lazarus continued to stay there.)

Your 2nd and 3rd sentences above are non sequitur to what I wrote.