Enough is enough.

[Alive]

I am not certain that I see just what the point is here any longer.

Israel, such as it is is an entirely secular nation, so they cannot be reasonably held to abide by the teachings of Christ. They are one of many nations in this fallen world and they happen to be surrounded by those who wish to eliminate them--man, woman and child. Hamas has committed unthinkable atrocities while using their own citizens as shields. Does this need repeating?

So I ask, do those judging Israel, so judge Hamas with as much enthusiasm.

From an earthly point of view--which is what is relevant here--I see no moral equivalence. Israel does not want all of their enemies wiped off the earth as does Iran and its proxies. Israel drops leaflets and warns the innocent. This is remarkable in this war's context.

Do you also condemn Hamas?

I pray that we refrain from any undue condemnation. Its easy from the comfort of our sofa...we do not wear their shoes.

[Anne2]

3 hours ago, tatwo said:

It is interesting that your response to me...Tatwo...“I do think Israel is for this purpose in this world. It is why they were partly blinded” concerning my response to Michael37...in part...about his slightly rhetorical characterization of Ausie 52’s OP. It utterly neglected to address any of the context or subject matter I included to Michale37 and this forum...and in response to Ausie 52’s OP. Which incidentally is the focus point of the forum.

As a Christian looking at this situation. Why these things maybe happening.

 

3 hours ago, tatwo said:

Ausie 52 simply stated his/her displeasure with what modern Israel is now doing in Gaza, specifically the suffering and dying as listed. Then stated that he/she believes that Israel needs to be held accountable for what he/she called “this ethnic cleansing of Gaza.”

I appealed to natural law. Maybe some don't  accept that?

3 hours ago, tatwo said:

Since you did this in this way...you clearly believe that your response to me...fit within the scope of what I presented and the forum itself...and took Ausie 52 as asking for some historical, biblical, personal reasoning why it is or might be “OK” for Israel to do what it is doing.  

Because it is Moses law they are under still.

 

3 hours ago, tatwo said:

But rather...it generally turns into what might be a “believer against believer” battle between those who are vehemently in support of Israel and those openly questioning the same. Tell me why...in the grand scheme of things...some of you being so knowledgeable of God’s mind concerning Israel and of their importance and obedience to Him...would anyone even need to defend them..."if God is for them who can be against them?"  

For me anyway, it is about natural law. Men naturally knowing/ having a sense of right and wrong on a basic human level. The views on this according the law of nature. Which leads to not defencing what Israel does based upon strictly religious views. "Ethnic cleansing" is the goal of Hamas, both now and future, because they have said so.

But yet, the suffering of Palestinians is blurring that threat, appealing to natural law in the secular world for their side. To defend Israel based solely on religious view points can go against natural law in the minds of the secular world. When Israel has not done right, acknowledge it.

Therefore to focus on what has happened to Israel that started this, and the threat of attempted genocide through Hamas if they are not eliminated.

If Israel had been allowed to go into Gaza and finish this a long time ago maybe things would be different. They were held back in many ways to draw this out. It IMO is a strategy to appeal to pity, and anger against Israel.

Israel is still within it's law concerning the wicked...as non believers in the new covenant. As is most of the world looking upon all this

De 7:16  And thou shalt consume all the people which the LORD thy God shall deliver thee; thine eye shall have no pity upon them: neither shalt thou serve their gods; for that will be a snare unto thee.
De 13:8  Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
 

Hamas has been very vocal they will be a snare to them. Genocide intentions will continue as it is their stated goal.

 

Edited Thursday at 05:11 PM by Anne2

[tatwo]

Greetings...let it be understood, I..."Tatwo"...am not...for or against...one nation or any others in murderous conflict...this is purely worldly behavior incited by the ruler of the world...in every case. The goal is the destruction of the image of God...period.

As a citizen of the heavenly Kingdom of God...I expect the nations of this world to behave in this manner. It will only increase as we move forward in this epoch.

Where I must draw the line is when I "see" those who call themselves "Christ" speaking that this outright slaughter...in "any theater" of battle...which as I said must happen...is the doings of the Lord Yahshua Christ. 

In my drawing the line...I am called to merely remind you of the principals of God as set forth in the scriptures...and that it is the "love of God" that puts the "mighty" in the almighty! Humans destroying each other in the name of the Lord is a satanic lie...all one has to do to understand the love of God for humans is...take a good hard long look at the life of the Lord Yahshua Christ...He is the perfect model of His Fathers love to us.

In the light and understanding of a child of God’s relationship and responsibility to the King of kings...to be continually formed in His Image and likeness...thereby becoming a mature “son of God” as Paul so diligently labors to reveal to the Body of Christ...I see a huge disconnect in the “institutional church”...especially in this “nationalistic, Zionistic” mentality.

For instance...Romans 1:21-28 Paul an apostle of the Lord Yahshua Christ...brought forth and handpicked by the same...gives us a reasonable perspective of the wickedness, ungodliness and unrighteousness of “men” who suppress the truth in unrighteousness. Yes in part...it is in these verses that we are alerted to the lust and impurities that are inherent in the depraved minds of those who are both practicing these degrading passions of same gender relationships and behaviors...and those who agree with and accept these sins...but that’s not all that is listed in those passages.

Paul goes on to say...“And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper...” Please note this is not merely a reference to homoerotic activity...no...he continues on. It gets worse...much worse...he says if people want to continue to engage in the godless, unrighteous behavior of lustful human passions...God gives them over to a “depraved mind”...He lets them do as they please.

A depraved mind is defined as...“unapproved, rejected, worthless, cast away, reprobate, morally bankrupt.” God allows men to sink to this level of degeneracy including both those who do such things and those who accept and perhaps “consume” such things in their attitude. Which is what Paul is saying when he wrote...“to do those things which are not proper”...a depraved human mind does, thinks about, agrees with and allows things which are not proper...according to lust and unrighteousness. This is not limited to sexual impropriety...no...he continues on...lets read...

Verse 29-31... “being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful...”

It is these that have become “morally debauched” which are characterized as being filled with “all unrighteousness” that are described variously among other words...“full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice, inventors of evil, unloving, unmerciful...” so one should be able to see that it is not merely the sensual deviant that is being addressed here...though that is being addressed.

Is there anyone who might read this...that does not understand what words like “envy, murder, strife, greed, and deceit” actually mean? I doubt it...we all know what each of them mean and in detail I should think. Anyways, clearly Paul is teaching the characteristics of those who are identified as being those of a “depraved mind”...so that we can discern them, their actions and behavior’s and respond in a loving and godly way if required...of which...would not include accepting these folks and their actions as righteous...that would be the sign of one's spiritual indigence and depravity.

Brother Paul does not stop there however...if we skip down to verse 32 we find...“and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.”

“and although they know the ordinance of God“...meaning that these are they who supposedly “claim to be or were” once the People of God...which is precisely why Paul tags them with “knowing God’s way.” Speaking of those who are of a “depraved mind”...right...reprobate?

So he continues on to include...“that those who practice such things are worthy of death” the depraved who engage in...“envy, murder, strife, greed, and deceit”...and the like...Paul says they are worthy of death...meaning the separation from God that produces a mindset that is based upon lust and unrighteousness...it becomes a vicious cycle that will infect others...which is why Paul is nailing it down so thoroughly here...but he is not finished.

The grade is going to get considerably steeper here...first he calls out...“they not only do the same”... speaking of people who claim “Christ” and...who commit similar licentiousness and dissipation which includes among other things...“envy, murder, strife, greed, and deceit”...and other humanly debased activities. These are they who are guilty of unrighteousness and evil...right...those whose minds are fermented in lust and wickedness? Again...Paul is not yet done...

Paul finishes Romans 1 out like this... “but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.”  Here he implicates “those who approve”...of...“those who practice”...the thoughts, words and actions on this list of behaviors of which...all...are God hating and evil.

Murder, envy, strife, deceit...to name a few...are the earmarks of the lawlessness...and to do in like manner...is antichrist...and to approve of people who do these things are considered to be those who are...“professing to be wise, they became fools”...it is not wise to listen to fools who so clearly reveal themselves to you through these attitudes and behaviors.

This reality is immutable...the judgment has been set...without a hard and immediate course correction and repentance...the mind of the human soul is trapped in a depravation that God will allow...due to lust and pride.

I'll finish with a short word from Brother John from his 1^st epistle in chapter 3 and verse 15...“Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.”  

So...hating a spiritual Brother is murder...and patently taking the life of another human is murder. This is done by people who do not have the eternal life of the Lord Yahshua Christ in them...they are none of His...and ultimately...there will be no acceptable justification for murder. Proceed as you so desire...your decisions and choices are your judgment from here forward.

Tatwo...:)

[Alive]

3 minutes ago, tatwo said:

Humans destroying each other in the name of the Lord is a satanic lie

Is Israel or Hamas destroying in the Nature of the Lord…in His Name?

[Anne2]

4 hours ago, Alive said:

I am not certain that I see just what the point is here any longer.

Israel, such as it is is an entirely secular nation, so they cannot be reasonably held to abide by the teachings of Christ. They are one of many nations in this fallen world and they happen to be surrounded by those who wish to eliminate them--man, woman and child. Hamas has committed unthinkable atrocities while using their own citizens as shields. Does this need repeating?

So I ask, do those judging Israel, so judge Hamas with as much enthusiasm.

From an earthly point of view--which is what is relevant here--I see no moral equivalence. Israel does not want all of their enemies wiped off the earth as does Iran and its proxies. Israel drops leaflets and warns the innocent. This is remarkable in this war's context.

Do you also condemn Hamas?

I pray that we refrain from any undue condemnation. Its easy from the comfort of our sofa...we do not wear their shoes.

The thing is, they desire to have us in their shoes. They cry death to America. We are the great Satan. This is why Netanyahu said, when they finish with us, they looking to come after you. That is their intent. Israel destroyed the facility for nukes in Iran, a threat to western civilization.. They are all over in Europe. They are also all over the USA..This is not the first time, genocide of Jew's was Nazi Germany's goal as well. They also were an expansionist regime. Isreal religiously speaking protects us and benefits us, more than we might think. 

Edited Thursday at 07:01 PM by Anne2

[tatwo]

1 minute ago, Alive said:

Is Israel or Hamas destroying in the Nature of the Lord…in His Name?

Greetings Alive...

Well I said..."Humans destroying each other in the name of the Lord is a satanic lie..." I stand upon that word...unless you or anyone can reveal the error in my "thinking"...that is only...if you would ever desire to attempt.

It will do no good to take me back to defunct covenant...that was utterly "fulfilled" in everyway buy none other than...the "Lamb of God"...were talking eternal here...remember? 

The living and Spirit Body of Christ on the earth and in the heavens today...has continually brought forth the administration of "Royal Priests." Melchisedek...the eternal priesthood is what I am referencing here. We don't destroy humans...any of them...and though our flesh may be destroyed...the glorious work the Holy Spirit has done in our "spirits and souls" will yield without fail the the judgment of this creation as guilty.

Your question as I read it here..."Is Israel or Hamas destroying in the Nature of the Lord…in His Name?"...just the connotation of human life being destroyed...be it Israel comprised of its military [IDF and agencies] and civilian population...or Gaza comprised of its military [Hamas and its agencies] and its civilian population...leads me to believe that none of this is being done either in the "nature...or the name" of the Lord Yahshua Christ...emphatically no.

Please be sure Brother Alive that I have studied the ways of the Lord as recorded in the scriptures in great detail...I have never seen an occasion where He would ever take up a sword...as they say...and kill another human being.

In fact He had all the power and the right to do that...rather than to be taken into custody and crucified...yet He did not...interestingly...neither did His disciples. To me that is a powerful example of what He wants me do in my life...which is to learn of Him and do what He did and what I see Him doing and here Him saying.

Additionally He is the foremost Teacher in the New Testament who taught without question...that those of His Body will learn to lay down their own life before they will take another's life.

To think any differently reveals a huge lack of understanding in terms of what it means to be "in Christ" and therefore what it means to have "eternal life" and be "eternal in spirit" as you read this.

Tatwo...:)

 

 

[tatwo]

2 hours ago, Anne2 said:

5 hours ago, tatwo said:

Ausie 52 simply stated his/her displeasure with what modern Israel is now doing in Gaza, specifically the suffering and dying as listed. Then stated that he/she believes that Israel needs to be held accountable for what he/she called “this ethnic cleansing of Gaza.”

I appealed to natural law. Maybe some don't  accept that?

Forgive me Sister...I am not exactly sure what you mean myself?

Tatwo...:)

[Anne2]

6 minutes ago, tatwo said:

Forgive me Sister...I am not exactly sure what you mean myself?

Tatwo...:)

by natural law?

A principal in Judaism, as well as historically in Christianity.

Rom 2:11  For there is no respect of persons with God.
12  For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13  (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14  For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15  Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) {their

Edited Thursday at 07:18 PM by Anne2

[tatwo]

2 hours ago, Anne2 said:

5 hours ago, tatwo said:

Since you did this in this way...you clearly believe that your response to me...fit within the scope of what I presented and the forum itself...and took Ausie 52 as asking for some historical, biblical, personal reasoning why it is or might be “OK” for Israel to do what it is doing.  

Because it is Moses law they are under still.

Well...umm...Moses Law and the Prophets was utterly fulfilled...hence "Old Covenant" and then quickly followed up by the advent of an entirely different "New Covenant" altogether. So...it would appear to me that...anyone who may be as you indicate..."still under Moses law"...would then be amongst the most patently deceived people there could be...right?

The Body of Christ is the New Covenant in power and action Anne2...this has nothing to do with an ethnic national Levitical priesthood of the men of Levi...they had their place I am not suggesting otherwise.

The Body of Christ is what comprises the "Royal Priesthood" of the New Covenant...and it is comprised of "the spirits of the made righteous made perfect."

Anne2...Christ is a spiritual man...He is alive...He is eternal...on earth He is robed in glory while bearing the flesh of men.

Tatwo...:)

[Alive]

27 minutes ago, tatwo said:

Greetings Alive...

Well I said..."Humans destroying each other in the name of the Lord is a satanic lie..." I stand upon that word...unless you or anyone can reveal the error in my "thinking"...that is only...if you would ever desire to attempt.

It will do no good to take me back to defunct covenant...that was utterly "fulfilled" in everyway buy none other than...the "Lamb of God"...were talking eternal here...remember? 

The living and Spirit Body of Christ on the earth and in the heavens today...has continually brought forth the administration of "Royal Priests." Melchisedek...the eternal priesthood is what I am referencing here. We don't destroy humans...any of them...and though our flesh may be destroyed...the glorious work the Holy Spirit has done in our "spirits and souls" will yield without fail the the judgment of this creation as guilty.

Your question as I read it here..."Is Israel or Hamas destroying in the Nature of the Lord…in His Name?"...just the connotation of human life being destroyed...be it Israel comprised of its military [IDF and agencies] and civilian population...or Gaza comprised of its military [Hamas and its agencies] and its civilian population...leads me to believe that none of this is being done either in the "nature...or the name" of the Lord Yahshua Christ...emphatically no.

Please be sure Brother Alive that I have studied the ways of the Lord as recorded in the scriptures in great detail...I have never seen an occasion where He would ever take up a sword...as they say...and kill another human being.

In fact He had all the power and the right to do that...rather than to be taken into custody and crucified...yet He did not...interestingly...neither did His disciples. To me that is a powerful example of what He wants me do in my life...which is to learn of Him and do what He did and what I see Him doing and here Him saying.

Additionally He is the foremost Teacher in the New Testament who taught without question...that those of His Body will learn to lay down their own life before they will take another's life.

To think any differently reveals a huge lack of understanding in terms of what it means to be "in Christ" and therefore what it means to have "eternal life" and be "eternal in spirit" as you read this.

Tatwo...:)

 

 

This is a disjointed discussion. The above doesn’t address my question.

So be it. God bless you.