Death Penalty

[heavenlyfavoured]

Again, forgive him, and let him live. In Prison.

If America is a "Christian" nation, we must adhere to Christian principles.

Execution is from 1st Covenant.

Hi,

God bless you "Avidan" I second this!!!

Luke 7:47

"Therefore I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven- for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little."

No offence but yall have 2 understand really what this means.

Edited December 2, 2005 by heavenlyfavoured

[apothanein kerdos]

Again, forgive him, and let him live. In Prison.

If America is a "Christian" nation, we must adhere to Christian principles.

Execution is from 1st Covenant.

To me that is weak theology. Anytime a principle or truth is brought from the Old Testament that disagrees with the position someone holds it's always, "Oh, that's the old covenant." That doesn't cut it at all in most cases. For one, does this mean God changed His mind? At one point in time He wanted criminals to die but now He doesn't? This leads to the inevitable conclusion that you believe God is quite unstable. Either killing criminals is wrong, or it is right. Secondly, the passage I gave was from Geneiss, prior to any Jews, covenants with them, or dealings with eternal salvation. God was telling Noah how mankind was to act. Unless at the death of Christ mankind ceased to exist and we are merely figments of an imagination, I would surely hope it would still apply.

Then if he still should b sentenced 2 death, then we should all b sentenced 2 death with him "for all have fallen short of his Glory".

Should we all likewise spend life in prison for falling short of the glory of God? Why is you agree he can be punished, but death is too much? This makes no sense. Up to the point he is punished you do not believe we have to share in it. However once death occurs you automatically think we too need to die. This doesn't make any logical sense. Could you elaborate?

God bless you "Avidan" I second this!!!

Luke 7:47

"Therefore I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven- for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little."

No offence but yall have 2 understand really what this means.

You fail to acknowledge what both Shiloh and I have brought up, and that is, that forgiveness does not necessitate lack of consequence. Yes we can be forgiven but this does not promise that there are no consequences for our actions. If a man contracts HIV via using a dirty needle, accepts Christ post-contraction, does he automatically lose the HIV disease? Of course not, it is a consequence that, whether he is saved or not, shall stay. Does this mean God doesn't know how to forgive because He allows the consequence to continue?

We all die, so I fail to see the big deal in delivering justice through a person's death. Why deny the inevitable? Again, is God not soveriegn?

[Smalcald]

But the US is not a Christian nation, neither in our laws nor in our corporal actions as a people, unless it is some sort of strange Christianity we have not heard of, but has invented!

But anyway the government has the power and right to take life in defense of its own people, both in war and against criminals. It is a nasty business, and this may be one of the reasons we are told basically that the Kingdom of God is not this world, this is not our home nor should we seek to be in control of this world.

I however am against the death penalty, it is cruel and inhuman punishment and we don't know how to apply it in a consistent way and it does not deter crime, so why do it? The only reason left would be pure revenge, to make someone suffer who has made us suffer, I don't think this is okay for Christians to do, however I don't judge the families of the people that Tookey killed for feeling that way.

But life without parole is actually a better sentence, it is horrible sentence, but it also gives the person a chance at redemption, but it also gives them a chance to really feel pain and guilt for the entire life. So that seems much better to me as a tool for keeping us safe.

But the government does have the right to take life, actually if we only killed convicted criminals it would be a step up for us.

[Guest shiloh357]

I do not believe Williams knows YAHSHUA.

He is among the most feared inmates in San Quentin. Although restricted to death row, he weilds a big hammer.

My take is forgive him.

Scripture over rides Gov"t. My humble opinion.

So then, it's righteous to forgive a man who murdered four people? We should just tell him, "Okay, we all forgive you for taking the lives of four people and ruining the lives of his family and friends. Here's a few bucks to get you back on your feet. Have a great life."

What about justice?

Hi,

Did u read what i just posted 45 minutes b4 or did u just over look it.

I suggested that death penalty is 2 high, mayb sentensing a long period of time would do. And by the way if u dont feel sorry 4 this guy that he'll go 2 hell 4 his sins b4 repenting, then mayb u need a heart of compasion because if our Lord had compation, if u claim 2 b a believer and His follower, then may i ask, where is ur compasion?

Well to begin with, my response was to Avidan.

Secondly, no, I do not feel sorry for him. Why should I feel sorrow and compassion for a man who murdered four people in cold blood? Why should I feel sorry for a man who co-founded the strongest, most brutal, and most criminal organization that the county of Los Angeles has ever known? To me that's like asking if I feel sorrow or compassion for Hitler.

Hi,

No offence but r u really born again. If u r then u would forgive ur brother everytime he sins.

U know u seem to have forgotten that Christ died for us while we were still sinners. If Christ did not die for your sins, do you know that you would b just as guilty in Gods eyes as this man?????

I know you were not responding to me directly, but then this is an open forum, if you need to only post to a particular person pliz use pm, no offense. I still love u like my brother in Christ and am actually going right now to church, i am very glad to give my piece of mind on this topic. We r all one body in christ. We all need each other,and we should all have a teachable heart.

Correct me where am wrong.

1. Forgiveness is not the absence of consequence. The Bible teaches that there are consequences for sin. Nowhere does God promise to remove the consequences of our sin even though he forgives us. i.e., God does not promise prisoners that they will be set free, even if they get saved.

2. You mentioned Jesus dying for your sins.... That is good point, really. Jesus died for your sins. You were under the sentence of death, according to God's law. Now, Jesus did not remove the death sentence, He bore the death Himself. SOMEONE was going to die for your sins. Death was enevitable, because God's justice had to be satisfied. So someone was going to die. It should have been you. You deserved to die for your sins, and God would have been within His Rights to treat you with utter contempt, and destroy you. Instead, God showed you His mercy by sending His Son to die in your place. Instead God, in His mercy took all of His hatred, and contempt for sin, and aimed it squarely at Jesus. He layed all of His Judgement upon Jesus, and Jesus bore the death you deserved. So not even God is opposed to the death penalty, but used it Himself.

Hi,

So Jesus who died 4 ur sins and mine, must have also died 4 his sins 2 OR ?

Yes, but you are missing the point. Jesus died for His sins, but that does not mean that he should get out of prison or not pay for his crimes. He is still bound to pay his debt to society. He still has to pay for his crimes in this world. Furthermore, it is has not even been made clear to me that this man is even a Christian, so even if Jesus did die for his sins, he will die and go to hell if he has not receieved Christ.

Even though he is forgiven, he must appropriate that forgiveness by trusting Jesus as his Savior.

Like I said, one can be forgiven but still have to face the consequences of breaking the law. The government is duty bound to seek justice on behalf of his victims. He is not to be treated as victim, and it is his victims we should be remembering in all of this.

[nebula]

Is my being new here change the fact that i might b making sence?

No, you are not making sense - in both argument and your typing style.

This isn't Chat - please[/] type normally. The "i" "2" "4" "b" and such are to read.

As for your arguments -

I am still waiting for an answer as to how life in prison is sufficient justice for cold-blooded murder.

And why should the government cancel the debt of a man who has not repented of his crime?

[RustyAngeL]

My take is forgive him.

Scripture over rides Gov"t. My humble opinion.

Forgive and what?

Forgive means let go, right?

So, for him to be forgiven, he should be let loose from prison, correct?

Is that what you want?

How is crime to be punished if the government forgives crimes and lets the criminal go?

************

Now, for my take on what forgiveness is - look at how the Lord dealt with David's sin.

Recall, the Lord sent Nathan the prophet to confront David. Through Nathan's word, David realized his transgression for what it was - and David repented.

And yes, the Lord did forgive David, "You shall not die."

BUT, he was still punished for his sin - his son died and "the sword never left his house."

Forgiveness does not negate punishment.

And sin unrepented shouldn't be "brushed off" so easily.

The man in question is a threat not only to society, but apparently to his fellow prisoners.

Why do you think the Lord ordered the death penalty in the Law in the first place?

It is not up to the law to administer grace but justice.

[Gerioke]

Who created hell and why was it created?

Go ahead and forgive the man, hen le him pay his deb. How many overcrowded prisons do you want on he face of this earth? Do you think life in prison is more humane than a swift death?

Ok. My poins have been made.

[Giaour]

Remember the theif on the cross?He said that he deserved to be there but Jesus did not.

If Jesus was against the death penalty, he would have set the thieves free.

Paul said to the courts that if he had done anything worth of death, he would surely accept it.

Christians have the right to enforce the death penalty but it is up to each person to decide for themselves if they want to show mercy or not.

[jamie]

My take is forgive him.

Scripture over rides Gov"t. My humble opinion.

Why should I forgive him of anything, what has he done to me or you? Unless you're his victim or a family member, you really aren't qualified to make that accessment.

This is between, him, God, his victims, and the judicial system. And ultimately Gods judicial system.

[Guest shiloh357]

My take is forgive him.

Scripture over rides Gov"t. My humble opinion.

Why should I forgive him of anything, what has he done to me or you? Unless you're his victim or a family member, you really aren't qualified to make that accessment.

This is between, him, God, his victims, and the judicial system. And ultimately Gods judicial system.

this is a good point. Only those who were his victims or the victims' families have the right to forgive him. I cannot forgive someone of a wrong not committed against me.