Homosexuality- how bad is it...

[ray]

Do you know me? Could you would love me? I have read many articles regarding this subject of homosexuality on this board and so far they all boil down to the same two arguments and ending up lets agree to disagree? This has been the most civil post I have seen in the years I have been here.

We truly don't know any one of here but sometimes over years we develop friendships but we don't what sins each of us keeps locked in our closets.

Do you know me? some of you do. Could you would you love me if you knew my deepest burden I had to carry for 8 long miserable years of my life. I'm a Christian. I believer in God and that is where my identity lies today. For the past 5 years or so I have been attending a Christian 12-step program called "Celebrate Recovery" Since I have started working this program I have given my homosexual lifestyle back into the control of God because I could not live this life of trying to serve two masters any more. Now I'm about ready to celebrate victory over this addiction and gaining freedom over this for 4 years in April of 2006.

Any time I share my testimony I have to wonder well this group of individuals love me or hate me. I have had both. however, I'm blessed to have some Christian friends who help support me as it is a daily battle even after 4 years. This time I have been rightly plugged into the power of Christ Love and know that according John 1:9 He "Jesus" has made me pure again.

Thanks

God Bless

ray

[Smalcald]

God bless you Ray.

Your testimony is worth a thousand times anything I could say on the topic.

[Guest EyDaIm 1]

Well, to the contrary, our Lord calls us to love the sinner (including the homosexual) but to condemn the sin (including that of homosexuality). Unless one is biblically convinced that homosexuality is a grievous sin before the Lord, one easily falls into the lot of minimizing the abominable nature of homosexual sodomy. Be sure you know the perverted nature of the sin -only sinners need to be saved - then proceed to offer new life in Christ Jesus. Res ipsa loquitor!

You do have a point there. God does condemn sins. But I don't think the best way to bring people to Christ is by showing them the perverted nature of the sin and then offer a new life in Christ. I think, in my expierience, that it should be the other way around...although there is no one-and-only-one-way to bring people to Christ.

I think we know we need Christ without nessicarily understanding how bad sin really is. In my expierience, at least, I've noticed that people are more likely to want God because of that feeling that they have. That need for a God that was built into us so long ago. We all know on some level that we need something more and we can show the unsaved that fullness.

After they accept and know God then their eyes will be opened to the sin. They will see for themselves that they are living against God. Then, because they have expierenced and loved God, they will want to change.

I don't think, gays at least, will see any other reason to change. By the world standards homosexuality is ok, whereas murder is not, that's why it's easier to show people the evil of murder vs. the wrongness of homosexuality. That's why I think we need God's help on that front. We need God to show them how wrong it is.

[apothanein kerdos]

Do you know me? Could you would love me? I have read many articles regarding this subject of homosexuality on this board and so far they all boil down to the same two arguments and ending up lets agree to disagree? This has been the most civil post I have seen in the years I have been here.

We truly don't know any one of here but sometimes over years we develop friendships but we don't what sins each of us keeps locked in our closets.

Do you know me? some of you do. Could you would you love me if you knew my deepest burden I had to carry for 8 long miserable years of my life. I'm a Christian. I believer in God and that is where my identity lies today. For the past 5 years or so I have been attending a Christian 12-step program called "Celebrate Recovery" Since I have started working this program I have given my homosexual lifestyle back into the control of God because I could not live this life of trying to serve two masters any more. Now I'm about ready to celebrate victory over this addiction and gaining freedom over this for 4 years in April of 2006.

Any time I share my testimony I have to wonder well this group of individuals love me or hate me. I have had both. however, I'm blessed to have some Christian friends who help support me as it is a daily battle even after 4 years. This time I have been rightly plugged into the power of Christ Love and know that according John 1:9 He "Jesus" has made me pure again.

Thanks

God Bless

ray

Exactly. The problem is you've probably faced A LOT of stigma because you are a recovering/former homosexual. For some reason people in the church are uncomfortable around that.

To me, I say praise God for saving you and redeeming you. You are a sinner saved from the entrapments of your life....just like the rest of us.

[deadman1204]

I'm very happy at your success to give up your former lifestyle Ray.

Admittedly it does seem that amongst Christians there is a "special" dislike of homosexuality. Many seem to go to far and seem bigotted. Maybe its because they feel safe condemning a sin they never have to worry about themselves. There is overproportional amount of anger against homosexuality versus all other sins combined.

[Smalcald]

"Maybe its because they feel safe condemning a sin they never have to worry about themselves."

Bingo

[deadman1204]

not to discuss a quote from my post, but looking at that statement gives the opportunity to open another whole can of worms lol.

[DaniJ87]

This is tough issue for me. I certainly don't condone approaching homosexuals with condemnation. However, I'm not sure I'm convinced that homosexuality is a sin in the first place. One's sexual orientation is not something a person can really choose. Whether or not someone acts on their orientation is a choice, but beyond that...I don't know. It's a tough issue, and my views on it are still developing.

Your views don't need to develop any further than the following verses:

1 Corinthians 6:

9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Leviticus 18:22

Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

I guess I should have gone with my gut and written the sidenote in my post as "please don't quote verses because I already know them"

The truth is, sexual orientation isn't really something a person can choose. I must take this into consideration as I read those verses.

[ray]

to choose or not to choose that is the question? how simple can I make this. I have a choice to eat out for dinner or stay home. I have choice to whom my friends will be. Hang with the "A" students and your most likely to get "A's". Hang with students who are failing you to are likely to fail. I have the choice between a chocolate bar vs. piece of fruit.

God created me to glorify Him. When did I choose to stop glorifying God? God also created me (us both male and female) in his own image. God intended for to procreate and make more children so that he would have more people to glorify Him. God gave us the right to choose good from bad. He said unto Adam and Eve you may eat from all the trees in my garden except the one in the middle. He gave them a choice just like he gave us choices. what was consequence of eating from the fruit of the tree in the middle? Death. Did they die right away? no. They were also told leave his garden as a part of their punishment for making a bad choice.

The Bible tells us that we all sin and fall short of the glory of God. Why do we sin? because we make choices some good and some bad. The bible also tells us that are flesh is weak and when it is weak we make bad choices. King David had a choice to gaze and gaze or walk away. David choose to gaze. We have to make some hard choices and when the desires of flesh are so weak that we fall into the trap like King David. We gaze upon the wine and beer, we become glutons and over eat, we choose have sex with the opposite sex and commit adultery, or we choose to have sex with same sex.

Yes, the temptation will always be there and it will be a daily struggle be it homosexuality, depression, lonlilness, obesity, work-alholism, and the list can go on. The fact is no matter what the reasearch indicates it all boils down to a choice. how you got to that choice is another issue.

Yeah, thou I walk through valley of shadow of death I will fear no evil. The evil is lurking in every shadow in that valley. It is my choice to walk through it and come out of the valley where there is eternal light from the Lord.

The path is wide in pretty that leads to destruction. The path is narrow and hard that leads to salvation. So few many people take that narrow path or struggle to get back on it if they wondered off it. Either way its your choice. What choice will you make? The struggle of where ones sexual orientation may be hard but it is still a choice. Will you give them grace and help them walk through the their battle or will you through book of law at them and continue to judge them?

[st. Worm]

" Why do we sin? because we make choices some good and some bad."

May I offer another perspective on why we sin. We sin because we are sinners. We are Adam's offspring and tainted, conceived in inequity and dead in spirit. Yes, that condition leads us to sin in act and deed, but sin is more than just the sinful acts we choose to commit.

The homosexual sins in thought, word and deed just as we all do. His sin, like all sins, needs repentance and confession. Unfortunately many churches not do not consider it a sin any longer and say because they are born that way that homosexuals are not really sinning. That excuse falls apart quickly when we accept the idea that we are ALL born as sinners. To be born with the inclination to sin, homosexual or not, does not excuse the sin in the eyes of God. As Melanthon said, the Law always accuses. Its requirements are without end. Trying to convince the homosexual to just deal with his sinful sexual acts really does nothing and that is what many well meaning Christians do unfortunately.

When we seek to evangelize the homosexual we must lovingly confront him with God's Law and the fact he is a sinner even apart from his homosexuality, the Law that kills and puts to death, and then tell him the Good News of Christ. Without the condemnation of the Law the Gospel is of little value. If we don't understand our sin, how can we understand our need for a Savior?