Salvation, Faith, Baptism

[kittylover0991]

Thank you all for your welcomes! I am glad i joined this board!

As far as the Baptism goes I was saved a long time ago (well not that long! 6 months or so) anyway I don't believe Baptizm saves you, Baptism is something you do to bury your old life and come up new. I was Baptized as an infant too, yet never raised anywhere near a church. Never even started reading the Bible til I was 44 years old!

I also believe that infants are born without sin therefore they need not be foregiven! It's when we get old enough to sin (whatever that age may be) that we make the the choice to live our lives in a Godly mannor. It is a conscience choice to change. My children have attended a Baptist Church since they were very small (my next door neighbor took them) and at their church you don't get Baptized until you are old enough to make the decision to follow God on your own (about 12 yr old).

So I guess what I am saying is, it does not matter if we are Baptized, although the Bible strongly suggests, if we repent, ask for forgiveness, and accept the Lord as our Savior we will, in fact, be saved.

LoL, once again, welcome to the board. You are mostly right. But susan, if I were you, I would go talk to you pastor about being born sinners The bible says that we are born sinners because of Adam and Eve. It is when we know right from wrong that we sin willingly I think your pastor or someone at your church could explain it a little better. I am a member of a Baptist church and have been saved for about seven years. They really didn't teach much about babies being sinners when I was late grade school, but while going up through high school, I have heard a few messages on it It is a great topic

Once again, congradulations Will be praying for you As a little encouragement, trying reading the bible through for the year 2006. It really isnt' that bad, just takes a few minutes in the morning, at night, or anytime throughout the day I can tell you that I just finished this mornign reading through and it has a blessing The best thing a new Christian or even Christian for that matter can do everyday is read his word Just give it a try Trust me Will be praying for you. Isn't it just great to have a relationship with God?

[Guest shiloh357]

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

Now read the rest of that chapter friend. We did not retain that knowledge and therefore are dead men walking as it says. The passage is an argument against us all who fail to know God apart from the gospel and Christ. Paul is actually condemning you, me and the entire human race. You may wish to get a better commentary or something.

No that is not what it says. It says that these people (the unrepentant, the children of disobedience) chose not to retain that knowlege and gave themselves over to a reprobate mind. It does not say they could not know, and it does say that they were without excuse because God IS knowable through the world he has created, but they chose to ignore it. So your premise fails, buddy.

You have no grounds to judge Nebula's experience as being invalid, especially since you base it on an erroneous handling of Scripture.

[nebula]

Hi, Susan!

I appologize for being so caught up in debate that I didn't take the time to welcome you here to Worthy!

I also believe that infants are born without sin therefore they need not be foregiven! It's when we get old enough to sin (whatever that age may be) that we make the the choice to live our lives in a Godly mannor. It is a conscience choice to change. My children have attended a Baptist Church since they were very small (my next door neighbor took them) and at their church you don't get Baptized until you are old enough to make the decision to follow God on your own (about 12 yr old).

So I guess what I am saying is, it does not matter if we are Baptized, although the Bible strongly suggests, if we repent, ask for forgiveness, and accept the Lord as our Savior we will, in fact, be saved.

Well, I refrain from taking a stand regarding the "salvation status" of infants, since this isn't actually something you can look up directly in the Bible. All we can do is speculate, really.

But to forbid baptism until 12? I think if a child can provide evidence that they have made the decision to follow Jesus, have repented, etc., I woldn't barr them. I say that because I did so at an early age - and I meant it, and knew that I meant it!

But maybe I'm a rarity?

I agree with what you are saying, though about baptism, except for the "it does not matter." I believe it does matter - not for salvation though! But for obedience, and for it kind-of "sealing" your decision, if you will. (But maybe what you meant when you wrote this was not how it came across to me. )

Anyway, Welcome to worthy! And I hope your time here is a blessing to you.

[MrSealedEternal]

"If I am thinking clearly about what you mean by "household" baptism.. how is it known that there were even babies in the house.."

Precisely. And how is it known that there were not infants in these households? Perhaps these were the only two households in the area that contained no infants (lol!). I think to assume there were no infants present or that these were the only households given these instructions requires a whole lot more assumption than what you are asking of me.

Either way, it is an assumption, so far as I can see.

God Bless,

Mrs. SE

[st. Worm]

"No that is not what it says. It says that these people (the unrepentant, the children of disobedience) chose not to retain that knowlege and gave themselves over to a reprobate mind. It does not say they could not know, and it does say that they were without excuse because God IS knowable through the world he has created, but they chose to ignore it. So your premise fails, buddy."

Well buddy, if you think Romans 1 is not talking about you and me and everyone else you need to reconsider. The whole point of Romans is to discuss the effects of the Fall, sin and the solution which is the Gospel. I guess you are in select company not to be a sinner. Congratulations! I am truly unworthy to discuss with you.

[st. Worm]

'I also believe that infants are born without sin therefore they need not be foregiven!'

Seriously, Pelagianism was declared to be a heresy long ago. You might want to read up on it. Romans 5:12 and Davids confession that he was conceived in sin sort of disprove your assertion that sin does not infect all of us.

Further if infants were born without sin (which the Catholics believed about Mary) then the best thing we can do is kill them before they sin so they will go straight to Heaven.

Sin does not just equal acts. Sinners is what we are because we are Adam's offspring.

[st. Worm]

From Mrs.SE

"Either way, it is an assumption, so far as I can see."

Mrs. SE, I assume you mean it is an assumption that infants were not baptized. The preponderance of the evidence seems to indicate that infants were baptized at the start of the church.

[st. Worm]

"anyway I don't believe Baptizm saves you, "

So you are saying Peter was wrong in his epistle where he mentioned the baptism that now saves you? 6 months ago you became a Christian? Well I really hate to debate this topic with such experienced teacher!

Seriously, blessings to you and may God continue to extend his grace to you.

[Guest shiloh357]

"No that is not what it says. It says that these people (the unrepentant, the children of disobedience) chose not to retain that knowlege and gave themselves over to a reprobate mind. It does not say they could not know, and it does say that they were without excuse because God IS knowable through the world he has created, but they chose to ignore it. So your premise fails, buddy."

Well buddy, if you think Romans 1 is not talking about you and me and everyone else you need to reconsider. The whole point of Romans is to discuss the effects of the Fall, sin and the solution which is the Gospel. I guess you are in select company not to be a sinner. Congratulations! I am truly unworthy to discuss with you.

Well, if you bother to read the text, it is talking about the entirely unrepentant. It is talking about a certain type of people, not the mindset of the entire human race. You are the one who needs to read your Bible and reconsider. Not all sinners fit the description of Romans chapter one. Better luck next time.

[st. Worm]

"Well, if you bother to read the text, it is talking about the entirely unrepentant. It is talking about a certain type of people, not the mindset of the entire human race. You are the one who needs to read your Bible and reconsider. Not all sinners fit the description of Romans chapter one. Better luck next time."

You should consider reading the entire letter. Paul says we know of God and we are naturally very religious yet that knowledge does not give us the ability to honor God. Paul is clearly talking about humanity. Not even the worst Bible commentary would agree with what you are saying.