Before Marriage

[LadyRaven]

Awesome post, LadyRaven!

While I DO agree that finding a good husband/wife is very largely dependant on "other factors," I DON'T think that we can eliminate sexual attraction entirely (admittedly, I'm not sure you meant that we need to eliminate it entirely, so really, this is more of a footnote). As you said earlier in the post "...marriage is God's answer to the sexual urges and desires natural to being human..." not to mention the need for procreation (not that I'll be one to argue that you MUST raise kids as a Christian couple or you're living in sin...I've always found that kinda silly) and sexual intimacy (distinct from the drive to have sex).

Also, I want to caution all you ladies out there against becoming a wallflower because "good girls don't" or whatever...I'm not saying that you should completely ignore the advice given here and go and make out like mad. What I AM saying is that guys are nervous too, and if you expect them to chase after you when you completely avoid eye contact and never give him signs that you're interested, think again. Guy logic would not immediately tell them "oh, she's just avoiding closeness because she's a good girl. She still secretly wants me to ask her out." What it WOULD probably tell them is "oh man, she doesn't even want to be around me...I guess I don't have a shot." Heck, when you find that special guy, and you think there could be something there, go get him! Flirt with him (not shamelessly...be appropriate while still sending the right signals), let him know you're interested in a relationship! Ruth made it pretty obvious to Boaz what she wanted (check out chapter 3! If that's not an obvious signal, I don't know what is), but they still kept it decent.

I don't believe in flirting at all for either sex. I don't believe you should speak in a manner which would not be appropriate in the case where you are speaking to another woman (or man's) spouse. Because if this person ISN"T the one, they ARE someone else's. I'm not saying that you should cower in the corner and protect yourself against guy germs, but flirting is not appropriate. If you are friends with the person and know him well both of you are less likely to feel the need to behave in such an unbecoming way.

I guess I would say I'm kinda fuzzy on your definition of "flirting"...I mean, I don't personally think that every kind of flirting has to do with "speak[ing] in a manner that would not be appropriate." To me, flirting is simply using body language and talk to express your interest in a person. You don't need to pull a Joey Tribbiani with the leer and "How you doin'"...it's more of a sense of playfulness than serious hitting on someone (and I agree, hitting on someone IS inappropriate).

Well...I don't have a definition per se for it, though obviously using double entandre or pinching a guy's butt would definately qualify. I switched my focus years ago from "dont do this" to "do this" so I don't have a list of speak not, handle not. However, if I were interested in a man and did not know that he was interested in me...for anything at all to happen we would have had to have been friends for quite a while. And during that time I would treat that man with the deference and respect I would treat my best friends husband. Because...as I said...in the future this man could end up being some other woman's husband. Fornication/adultery is immorality with someone who does not biblically belong to you. We tend not to see that singles don't belong to us and in the end might belong to another down the line.

Now, that being said...with the appropriate clearance, I have asked my best friend's husband out to a public place for coffee if the situation was appropriate, and so...I might do this with a man I was interested in.

[jackie d]

Rule of thumb...if you cannot bring yourself to do whatever in front of the pastor and congrigation at church...its shouldn't be done in private either...

so does this mean after I am married I would be willing to do certain things in front of the pastor and congregation that I would not have been willing to do before I am married?

The answer is simple. God judges the thoughts and attitudes of a persons heart. If a man looks upon a woman with lust he has already fornicated with her in his heart.

[Iryssa]

Awesome post, LadyRaven!

While I DO agree that finding a good husband/wife is very largely dependant on "other factors," I DON'T think that we can eliminate sexual attraction entirely (admittedly, I'm not sure you meant that we need to eliminate it entirely, so really, this is more of a footnote). As you said earlier in the post "...marriage is God's answer to the sexual urges and desires natural to being human..." not to mention the need for procreation (not that I'll be one to argue that you MUST raise kids as a Christian couple or you're living in sin...I've always found that kinda silly) and sexual intimacy (distinct from the drive to have sex).

Also, I want to caution all you ladies out there against becoming a wallflower because "good girls don't" or whatever...I'm not saying that you should completely ignore the advice given here and go and make out like mad. What I AM saying is that guys are nervous too, and if you expect them to chase after you when you completely avoid eye contact and never give him signs that you're interested, think again. Guy logic would not immediately tell them "oh, she's just avoiding closeness because she's a good girl. She still secretly wants me to ask her out." What it WOULD probably tell them is "oh man, she doesn't even want to be around me...I guess I don't have a shot." Heck, when you find that special guy, and you think there could be something there, go get him! Flirt with him (not shamelessly...be appropriate while still sending the right signals), let him know you're interested in a relationship! Ruth made it pretty obvious to Boaz what she wanted (check out chapter 3! If that's not an obvious signal, I don't know what is), but they still kept it decent.

I don't believe in flirting at all for either sex. I don't believe you should speak in a manner which would not be appropriate in the case where you are speaking to another woman (or man's) spouse. Because if this person ISN"T the one, they ARE someone else's. I'm not saying that you should cower in the corner and protect yourself against guy germs, but flirting is not appropriate. If you are friends with the person and know him well both of you are less likely to feel the need to behave in such an unbecoming way.

I guess I would say I'm kinda fuzzy on your definition of "flirting"...I mean, I don't personally think that every kind of flirting has to do with "speak[ing] in a manner that would not be appropriate." To me, flirting is simply using body language and talk to express your interest in a person. You don't need to pull a Joey Tribbiani with the leer and "How you doin'"...it's more of a sense of playfulness than serious hitting on someone (and I agree, hitting on someone IS inappropriate).

Well...I don't have a definition per se for it, though obviously using double entandre or pinching a guy's butt would definately qualify. I switched my focus years ago from "dont do this" to "do this" so I don't have a list of speak not, handle not. However, if I were interested in a man and did not know that he was interested in me...for anything at all to happen we would have had to have been friends for quite a while. And during that time I would treat that man with the deference and respect I would treat my best friends husband. Because...as I said...in the future this man could end up being some other woman's husband. Fornication/adultery is immorality with someone who does not biblically belong to you. We tend not to see that singles don't belong to us and in the end might belong to another down the line.

Now, that being said...with the appropriate clearance, I have asked my best friend's husband out to a public place for coffee if the situation was appropriate, and so...I might do this with a man I was interested in.

Ew, yeah, I definitely agree that butt pinching and the old double entendre talk qualifies as inappropriate. *grin* I didn't mean that at all when I was talking about flirting (sorry...shoulda been more specific, I guess). I was thinking more in the area of holding eye contact with a charming smile, a little eyelash batting, innocent things like that

[LadyRaven]

Ew, yeah, I definitely agree that butt pinching and the old double entendre talk qualifies as inappropriate. *grin* I didn't mean that at all when I was talking about flirting (sorry...shoulda been more specific, I guess). I was thinking more in the area of holding eye contact with a charming smile, a little eyelash batting, innocent things like that

LOL. I'm not going to lay down laws for anyone herre cause well, I'm not God and have no right to bind where God hasn't. Esp since I think that many predating behaviours are to remain until an engagement/marriage is enacted...for the reasons stated in my original thing I wrote. I'm sure not everyone applies the scriptures I quoted the same ways as I do either. The scriptures are of course God's word and we're to heed it. My beliefs as to what they mean, however, are mine.

[mrs]

Crystal,you are a special young lady and I am proud of you!I pray that the lessons you've learned from this relationship will keep you from harm in the future.

[kittylover0991]

Crystal,you are a special young lady and I am proud of you!I pray that the lessons you've learned from this relationship will keep you from harm in the future.

Thanks Hannah,

I can't thank you enough for your help and encouragement from before this relationship all the way up until now... it has meant more than the world to me and I just can't thank you enough..

However, instead of complaining about this, which I could easily do, I'd rather show those that are younger than me about what has happened to me(although small in comparison to most).. and how just small little things make a big difference... Thank you so much

Crystal

[IslandRose]

Rule of thumb...if you cannot bring yourself to do whatever in front of the pastor and congrigation at church...its shouldn't be done in private either...

I do not exactly agree with your point. I do not know many married couples who would have sex in front of the pastor or Congregation. Yet, sex is perfectly permissible within the covenant of marriage.

Yes, but the question was, What is permissible BEFORE marriage.

[kittylover0991]

I really can't say I know about holding hands... or about hugging.. but... even just kissing... well.. okay, I don't know there much either... It's been a strong conviction of mine not to kiss before marraige.. but I think in this case, I knew I was with the wrong guy, so that might have affected it greatly. I guess one just needs to pray about it, maybe even seek advice

[Shy Christian]

No man over the age of 35 who has had sex before (and they all have) is willing to date a woman more than a few times without french kissing, and they usually want more than that!

[LadyRaven]

No man over the age of 35 who has had sex before (and they all have) is willing to date a woman more than a few times without french kissing, and they usually want more than that!

And that is truly sad. I'd rather be single than have to compromise my purity. I've walked the sinful road in relationship before and you get what you ask for. If you're a gal and you give in to someone who doesn't respect the standards of purity, how can you expect to be respected in anything later on. And if you're a man and you find a girl willing to...well... what makes you think she will be moral later on when it is important to you?

The best predictor of future behaviour is the past unless someone has had a major life change.

You treat everyone as if they are someone else's spouse until you discover that this is the one for you. Would kissing someone else's spouse be appropriate? To some it would, but I don't go around kissing what doesn't belong to me, I don't have that right.