Baptists not Protestant?

[Pax]

Jesus Christ, the Messiah and Savior of a lost and dying world first started the church when he called his disciples. He told Simon,

[apothanein kerdos]

Cathlolic by name or belief? By name, all are "Catholic." By belief though..almost none of them are, especially Augustine.

[Pax]

Cathlolic by name or belief? By name, all are "Catholic." By belief though..almost none of them are, especially Augustine.

Sorry AK, but St. Augustine is considered a "Doctor of the Church." A Doctor of the Church is an official honor that is bestowed by the Pope in recognition of the outstanding contribution a person has made to the understanding and development of Christian doctrine. There are 33 total recognized by the Catholic Church. If you really want to study Church history read what the early Church fathers, or Doctors of the Church had to write. Ironic thing is that all of these men and later women, there are 3 women Doctors of the Church, were Catholic.

[Kabowd]

Cathlolic by name or belief? By name, all are "Catholic." By belief though..almost none of them are, especially Augustine.

Sorry AK, but St. Augustine is considered a "Doctor of the Church." A Doctor of the Church is an official honor that is bestowed by the Pope in recognition of the outstanding contribution a person has made to the understanding and development of Christian doctrine. There are 33 total recognized by the Catholic Church. If you really want to study Church history read what the early Church fathers, or Doctors of the Church had to write. Ironic thing is that all of these men and later women, there are 3 women Doctors of the Church, were Catholic.

AK is a church history major

[apothanein kerdos]

Cathlolic by name or belief? By name, all are "Catholic." By belief though..almost none of them are, especially Augustine.

Sorry AK, but St. Augustine is considered a "Doctor of the Church." A Doctor of the Church is an official honor that is bestowed by the Pope in recognition of the outstanding contribution a person has made to the understanding and development of Christian doctrine. There are 33 total recognized by the Catholic Church. If you really want to study Church history read what the early Church fathers, or Doctors of the Church had to write. Ironic thing is that all of these men and later women, there are 3 women Doctors of the Church, were Catholic.

I've read most of the early church fathers. Like I said, all of them are Catholic by name. However, when we study their beliefs, they are decidedly the antithesis of the modern Church dogma. Augustine is simply the perfect example. I can point to others. Again, you point to titles, not beliefs. This is not adequate in such a discussion.

[Pax]

Cathlolic by name or belief? By name, all are "Catholic." By belief though..almost none of them are, especially Augustine.

Sorry AK, but St. Augustine is considered a "Doctor of the Church." A Doctor of the Church is an official honor that is bestowed by the Pope in recognition of the outstanding contribution a person has made to the understanding and development of Christian doctrine. There are 33 total recognized by the Catholic Church. If you really want to study Church history read what the early Church fathers, or Doctors of the Church had to write. Ironic thing is that all of these men and later women, there are 3 women Doctors of the Church, were Catholic.

I've read most of the early church fathers. Like I said, all of them are Catholic by name. However, when we study their beliefs, they are decidedly the antithesis of the modern Church dogma. Augustine is simply the perfect example. I can point to others. Again, you point to titles, not beliefs. This is not adequate in such a discussion.

O.K. AK, fill me in on what is antithesis about St. Augustine's teachings compared to the modern Catholic Church? Also I might add that you are being taught about the Catholic Church and her dogma at a non-Catholic institution? I wouldn't put to much credit in that. Go to the source if you want to learn about what the Catholic Church teaches. Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, read Vatican Documents, etc.

[nebula]

Can we please get away from another fight over who or what is the real Church.

The OP is asking about the Baptist Church, and why they are not considered by many (most?) to not be a Protestant denomination.

So, can we go back to discussing the history of the Baptist Church without all this mismash of Roman Catholicism vs other denominations?

[apothanein kerdos]

Can we please get away from another fight over who or what is the real Church.

The OP is asking about the Baptist Church, and why they are not considered by many (most?) to not be a Protestant denomination.

So, can we go back to discussing the history of the Baptist Church without all this mismash of Roman Catholicism vs other denominations?

Because it ultimately comes down to the RCC vs. everyone else. In order to find Baptist doctrine we must trace it back to a starting point.

As per Pax's request:

His most prominent belief is in divine predestination...that ultimately we have no choice in our salvation.

As for being educated outside a Catholic institution....when you study the direct source it doesn't matter. That is the only criticism I get from Catholics. Never, "No, historically this is wrong and here is why." Always, "Well, you're not Catholic!" So?

[hebrews_beauty]

*not to sound argumentative* As with what biker said, what about Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons(if you consider such to be "Christian" as society does)?

Orthodoxy is Christian, and so is Roman Catholicism; they profess to the same basic, essential beliefs that Protestants hold (the deity of Christ, etc). JW's and Mormons on the other hand are not Christian because they don't hold to the same basic, essential Christian beliefs (distort or reject Trinity, etc.)

[Fiosh]

Can we please get away from another fight over who or what is the real Church.

The OP is asking about the Baptist Church, and why they are not considered by many (most?) to not be a Protestant denomination.

So, can we go back to discussing the history of the Baptist Church without all this mismash of Roman Catholicism vs other denominations?

Because it ultimately comes down to the RCC vs. everyone else. In order to find Baptist doctrine we must trace it back to a starting point.

As per Pax's request:

His most prominent belief is in divine predestination...that ultimately we have no choice in our salvation.

As for being educated outside a Catholic institution....when you study the direct source it doesn't matter. That is the only criticism I get from Catholics. Never, "No, historically this is wrong and here is why." Always, "Well, you're not Catholic!" So?

"But if someone already regenerate and justified should, of his own free will, relapse into his evil life, certainly that man cannot say: "I have not received"; because he lost the grace from God and by his own free choice went to evil".

(St. Augustine - " Admonition and Grace" A.D. 426) [bold mine]

Note: St. Augustine died in 430 A.D.