Apostasy, have you seen it?

[Christ's Free Servant]

What was the issue? Why do you think leadership did not confront it?

I could write a book...

It began in 1977 when I first began to really understand God's word; when it first became alive to me and God began speaking to my heart in a very personal way. God led us to go to Ft Wayne Bible College in IN where we immediately got involved in the C&MA church, because that was our denomination at the time. The pastor's wife began a "Bible study" for women, but it was more like an encounter group. This one week she asked all the ladies in the group to tell all the other ladies in the group what their first impressions were of the other women and then to tell their present impressions. Well, I was not one of those bubbly kind of personalities that everyone just fell in love with, though I was loving and kind, but people often misunderstood me at a first glance. The women, one by one told of their negative first impressions of me and then their present impressions improved a little, but I had to sit there and listen to them verbalize in front of everyone else their negative first impressions and it hurt like crazy. Afterwards I ran out of there crying.

I called the pastor's wife to lovingly confront her with my concerns and she said she did not see anything wrong with what they were doing. I read to her from Ephesians about how we are to say things that build one another up not tear one another down, but she ignored me. Then, my husband and I went to talk with the pastor about it. We explained that this was supposed to be a Bible study, but that what was taking place in there was not edifying God nor the body of Christ. He defended what his wife was doing and said she planned to continue. They were not the least bit concerned about hurting me or anyone else. This was not a Bible study. It was some book that was by some author and it was being passed off as though it was a Bible study and the women in the group were just doing what the book and the pastor's wife told them to do without questioning it.

I have seen this type of thing a hundred times over since then, not that specific incidence, but the following of man in the church w/o regard to what the Bible teaches and people blindly following because the class is being taught by a clergy or the wife of a clergy or the book is written by some famous author. The biggest one right now is the Purpose Driven movement. People study this as though it is the word of God and they follow its teachings as though it is the word of God and they don't bother to examine it to see if it is founded in the word of God. It has enough truth to sell people, but there are subtle lies underneath that get people hooked because they don't bother to look beyond what they are being taught. I have seen this so many times, even in my teaching of the word I have had women tell me that their pastor said thus and thus, so it didn't matter if the word said something different. People are followers of man instead of followers of God. That is what is scary!

I have a hundred more stories, but they all pretty much have the same central theme - man following man and man's rules instead of man following God and God's rules.

[David from New Bern]

Christ's free servant... Thanx for the details and the insight from your experiences. I'm sure glad that you presevered beyond this horrible incident. I hope you have properly dealt with this issue in the area of forgiving this wrong you have suffered. I too see people following the best seller's list and assuming they can trust the content as being biblical. When someone get's saved in our church, I'm almost tempted to tell them to turn off Christian TV and if you go to the Christian bookstore, I want to go with you.

[Catsmeow]

Sue, when I read about your experience and thought about the myriad of television preachers today, this verse came to mind:

1 Thess 5:21-23 Test everything. Hold on to the good. Avoid every kind of evil.

When we do as the Berean church did and hold everything against the light of the truth of scripture, we are doing the right and noble thing.

John 17:17 Sanctify them by thy truth; thy word is truth.

His Word is truth and when you confronted these people with God's Word, it offended them because they dwelt in darkness and the darkness did not comprehend your admonitions.

How can they? They're like the blind leading the blind and they and those who follow them fall into a ditch.

Sue, one more verse comes to my mind as well:

2 Thes 2:10-12 . They perish because they refuse to love the truth (i.e. God's Word) and so be saved. Therefore, God shall send them a powerful delusion that they should believe the lie and that all should be condemned who've delighted in wickedness.

[BellaRose]

Has anybody ever witnessed a church or church leader or concerned brother or sister in the Lord confronting an apostate? I am trying to get a feel for any offense of the church's part or believer part to be proactive to protect the sheep or to pursue a lost sheep. Is this happening with any frequency?

I wrote this poem months ago. I wept as i wrote it.....I also had a righteous anger.

I have never written anything like this before, or ever again. But I have experienced this kind of Ferocious Faith and i know many have left the church and are now lost sheep who have been driven out by the wolves.The sad thing is, that in some cases, the wolves have been the ones behind the pulpits. Thankfully God has kept me. My heart is to help the The Great Shepherd find the lost,and wounded sheep out there. It pains my heart to see people leave God because of so called Christians who misrepresent who God is.

By this all men will know that you are MY disciples if you have LOVE for one another

My cry in this poem is for the lost sheep.

Ferocious Faith

By K. A. Graaf

I am on my knees; to my God I cry,

My spirit rises up, angry with those

who are sent into the flock to divide.

Wolves dressed up as sheep,

devouring the weak and abused,

Their ferocious faith; twisting and distorting the truth,

Before the wounded sheep even get the chance to be healed.

These religious Pharisees are right behind them

ready to bite at their heels,

Outwardly they look like sheep,

looking all righteous and spiritual,

But underneath they are ferocious wolves

waiting to steal, destroy and kill.

Hiding behind their deceptive masks

they offer the sheep their helping hand,

Smiling with counterfeit compassion,

pretending to understand.

The wounded reach out to them

believing that there is a high calling on their life,

Not knowing that trusting them is going cost them a terrible price.

Very subtle, they sow fear and distort the love of God

and the gift of grace,

Making these wounded sheep believe

they are unworthy; unaccepted and stained,

[Christ's Free Servant]

Christ's free servant... Thanx for the details and the insight from your experiences. I'm sure glad that you presevered beyond this horrible incident. I hope you have properly dealt with this issue in the area of forgiving this wrong you have suffered. I too see people following the best seller's list and assuming they can trust the content as being biblical. When someone get's saved in our church, I'm almost tempted to tell them to turn off Christian TV and if you go to the Christian bookstore, I want to go with you.

David,

Thank you for your words of encouragement. Yes, I have properly dealt with this issue in the area of forgiveness. There have been hundreds more such experiences in my life prior to and since then that God has allowed to make me who I am, and all has been forgiven. God was shaping my character during the process of all the injustices of my life, and I am glad he has made me who I am. I don't regret those experiences, because they have been for my strengthening and so that I can encourage and strengthen my brothers who are going through similar trials (II Corin. 1). God told me early on in my life that he was calling me to be a voice for him, similar to the voice of Jeremiah in saying what he wants me to say to whomever he wants me to say it, and he told Jeremiah that he was not to fear man or God would terrify him before them. Well, I learned that the hard way. God did terrify me before many men, and in the process I learned not to fear man. So, it was for my good that these things happened to me.

Yes, I see far too many Christians reading books or watching Christian TV or believing everything their pastor tells them and far too few Christians reading their Bibles. I can remember that even 30 years ago when I said I was going to have a Bible study people would ask me what I was going to study, so I would tell them a book in the Bible or a Bible topic and their response would be, "no, I mean what book are you going to use for your study," as though the Bible by itself was not good enough. I recently was involved in a ladies' Bible study that as long as we studied a "book" by some author, people would come to the study, but as soon as we said we were going to study the Bible, attendance fell off. People are followers of men, but God wants us to be his followers. Because people listen to men as though they are gods, people will be easily deceived. I see this happening with far too much frequency in the church today. Even people in the pastorate seem to spend far too much time reading the opinions of man on church planting and church growth instead of just inquiring of the Lord as to how He wants to grow his church.

[Christ's Free Servant]

Bella Rose,

I feel the pain in your poem. I understand from personal experience. I do believe God is going to judge the shepherds of the sheep who have ruled over them harshly and even those who have been complacent, neglectful and who have tolerated sin in their congregations and who have feared man more than they feared God - those who have been too lenient and who have not brought people out of their sin and back into a right relationship with God.

I hurt for those sheep, and God has called me to a ministry that ministers to those sheep who have been injured by shepherds, and I believe he will increase that ministry in his timing to include even more of the hurting sheep who need to learn to trust in God and not in man. Man will fail us, but God will never fail us.

[Christ's Free Servant]

Cats,

Thank you for those encouraging words. You know, if that had been my only experience, well, no 1, I would not be who I am today and I would probably not be here on this website, and no 2, I would not need to be so concerned about the Church. But, this did not end with this experience 30 years ago. I have seen much in my lifetime. You would not believe it if I told you everything, but there is a lot of really bad stuff that goes on in churches all in the name of Christianity, and I'm not the only one noticing, obviously. Like I said, I could write a book... well, actually I kind of have. The Lord told me several years ago to write the story of my life, so I did, and I've kept a journal since then, not just of the bad stuff, but of all God's blessings and the things he has taught me through his word and through my experiences. Not one of them was wasted. I learned through each one. But, God has also helped me to see The Church through his eyes, too. He weeps when he sees a lot of the stuff that goes on in his name and I weep, too. I know he is weeping now. He loves his Church and he hates to see the stuff that is going on in his name that is not of him. A lot of good stuff is happening, too. It is not all bad. But, truly we are seeing a church that has lost its first love, at the least, and that has become lukewarm, at the worst. God wants to be in first place again or for the first time in many cases. So, he will have to discipline his Church in order to show that he is God and so that people will get on their knees in repentance. I think that is what is next, and then we will see the Church revived and a great harvest of souls, I believe, before the beginning of the tribulation. God wants to take as many people to heaven as possible, so because he loves us, he will have to discipline us in order to get us to worship him in all his holiness and to make him our first love again.

[jamie]

Church is not a place to go to, to feel good about youeself and pat one another on the back, or a place where you can jive or rock and roll with Jesus, you can do that at home in front ot tv. It's a place to go to give honour and praises and glory and thanks to God for the finished work of His Son on the cross. The church won't apostasize, Ruck only those who get going when the going gets tough will.

Have a nice day in the Lord,

eric

Eric, i've read enough of your posts to know that you are a man of God. You obviously have a good church, but some of us have gotten a taste of something else thats out there and it's not good to put yourself in that place.

This is nothing new under the sun, Gods word warns us it will be this way.

Hang in there, if you haven't seen it yet, chances are you will.

P.S. If you meant the "true" church as in the bride, instead of "church' as in organization...then I agree with you when you say they won't apostasize. (if they remain in Him)

[David from New Bern]

Eric said earlier that he didn't believe that a true Christian could apostasize...I take it that he believes (certainly others do) that apostasy is a fatal state, meaning there is no returning from that state of being. I would be interested in hearing more discussion in this area

[David from New Bern]

Bellarose...(very moving piece) do you mind if I use your poem in full or in part? If it becomes a published work I would be more than willing to give you credit. Who knows what door God could be opening?