Leading others to Christ

[50_Cent's_dog]

I don't want to ever bring up the subject OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) ever again because it is an arguement that neither side can win. The Bible can be used to back up both sides.

My pastor talked about getting into debates with other pastors today at church. He said that he can not win because the other pastors can use scripture to back up their points of view. He said that it is just nausiating.

I used to believe in the OSAS doctrine until I came on to Worthyboards. Half believe that you can lose your salvation once you are saved. Maybe you are right.

I have one question though. How can you lead others to Christ if you are not positive that you are going to heaven when you die? How can you be motivated to tell others about Salvation when you can lose it? Don't people want to believe in a faith that they can be sure of? I want a salvation that won't be taken from me.

Your brother in Christ,

Kevin

[David from New Bern]

I don't want to ever bring up the subject OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) ever again because it is an arguement that neither side can win. The Bible can be used to back up both sides.

My pastor talked about getting into debates with other pastors today at church. He said that he can not win because the other pastors can use scripture to back up their points of view. He said that it is just nausiating.

I used to believe in the OSAS doctrine until I came on to Worthyboards. Half believe that you can lose your salvation once you are saved. Maybe you are right.

I have one question though. How can you lead others to Christ if you are not positive that you are going to heaven when you die? How can you be motivated to tell others about Salvation when you can lose it? Don't people want to believe in a faith that they can be sure of? I want a salvation that won't be taken from me.

Your brother in Christ,

Kevin

Or what specific sin puts you over the threshold of acceptance or how many sins unconfessed drops the bomb of "falling from grace"?

if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.Hebrews 6:6 NKJV

If they lose their salvation can they get saved again, and if so how do we justify Hebrews 6:6 which says one shot! In the Prodigal Son parable, at one point in the story did he cease to be his father's son? And wasn't that story told to reprimand the son who stayed home who wanted his brother disowned and shunned?

[serotta]

In Romans 1:19 it says that God abandons those that turn away from Him. I have known at least two people who were spirit-filled Christians, but due to some problems in their lives, chose to turn away from God. They simply refused to give that part of their life to God, even though they had surrendered all of their life to that point. Romans 8:9 says that those that do not have the Holy Spirit are not Christians at all. Is it possible to empty oneself of the Holy Spirit? From personal experience I would have to say yes.

To the original question $0.50, proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit are the "fruits of the Spirit" listed in Gal 5:22. You can certainly be assured of your salvation, even if you do not hold strictly to OSAS. Remember that "better is one day in His courts than thousands elsewhere". That is enough in itself to cause us to witness to others.

[angels4u]

Look what Titus has to say about this:

Titus 2 11-15

FOR THE GRACE OF GOD THAT BRINGS SALVATION HAS APPEARED TO ALL MEN!!!!

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Tts 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Tts 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Tts 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Tts 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

GRACE tells it all and let us live responding to Gods GRACE:)

[Christ's Free Servant]

I have one question though. How can you lead others to Christ if you are not positive that you are going to heaven when you die? How can you be motivated to tell others about Salvation when you can lose it? Don't people want to believe in a faith that they can be sure of? I want a salvation that won't be taken from me.

Your brother in Christ,

Kevin

Kevin,

I know I am going to heaven. I have assurance of eternal salvation. I believe in the eternal security of the "believer." The true believer, scripturally, is someone who endures to the end, who keeps on believing, who overcomes, etc. Belief = repentance = obedience. Salvation is not a one-time experience. It is a process of a life-time, and those who hang in there to the end have that assurance of eternal salvation. The parable of the seeds says it best, I think. There are many who hear the gospel and even accept it, but the seed soon dies because there was no root. Many people pray a prayer and think they have their ticket into heaven. But, salvation means a changed life. It means a turn-about. It does not mean perfection or sinlessness, and we don't lose our salvation every time we sin. I think it takes a great deal to lose one's salvation. I think someone who was genuinely saved would have to absolutely turn the other direction and without question reject the name of Christ and swear that he/she did not believe. I believe we all have free choice. I don't believe we ever lose that free choice. If we have the free choice to choose him, then we have that same free choice to reject him. ONly God knows at what point a person has gone beyond the point of no return. I think the Bible compares that to like crucifying the Lord all over again, because they spat in the face of what he did for them. I don't think a non-believer could do that. So, I truly believe we can offer hope and a future in heaven, but we must explain that there is a cost - we must be willing to die to our old lives and we must be renewed by the Holy Spirit. To me, those who endure to the end are the true believers.

[David from New Bern]

In Romans 1:19 it says that God abandons those that turn away from Him. I have known at least two people who were spirit-filled Christians, but due to some problems in their lives, chose to turn away from God. They simply refused to give that part of their life to God, even though they had surrendered all of their life to that point. Romans 8:9 says that those that do not have the Holy Spirit are not Christians at all. Is it possible to empty oneself of the Holy Spirit? From personal experience I would have to say yes.

To the original question $0.50, proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit are the "fruits of the Spirit" listed in Gal 5:22. You can certainly be assured of your salvation, even if you do not hold strictly to OSAS. Remember that "better is one day in His courts than thousands elsewhere". That is enough in itself to cause us to witness to others.

Serota...I don't understand quoting Romans 1:19 to support "God abandons those that turn away from Him" This verse does not remotely support your argument.

[David from New Bern]

Appeasing an angry God is a almost universal concept in world religion. Good Karma bad Karma seems to be a natural default for the human mind that insist on the right to control his/her destiny. But the unique truth of Christianity (the Way) is grace, unmeritted favor and the continual grace that keeps us in his grip. If the prize that grace gave was merely Heaven I might believe this conditional salvation that some believe. But the prize of salvation is not Heaven. The prize of salvation is sonship/daughtership. The love that offered this preferred status is perfect and unconditional because it is His love that saved us not our grasp of the offer and our ability to maintain a work ethic...Think on these things...God's character would be questionsable if He disowned one of His children. My sonship, not my performance, is my guarantee of Heaven, which is my inheritance.

Edited March 20, 2006 by David from New Bern

[50_Cent's_dog]

I have one question though. How can you lead others to Christ if you are not positive that you are going to heaven when you die? How can you be motivated to tell others about Salvation when you can lose it? Don't people want to believe in a faith that they can be sure of? I want a salvation that won't be taken from me.

This is the crux of the problem with Conditional Security (CS). It robs us of assurance and cripples the confident preaching of the gospel. Most objections to OSAS are based upon straw men or simple misunderstandings of the OSAS position. But CS needs to answer this question you asked. How indeed can someone who is never sure of their salvation bring anyone else to the door?

To say that fruit is proof is to cause more questions to arise: what and how much fruit is proof? Who decides that? And many people, in an effort to find some sense of assurance, busy themselves with works, trying to prove their salvation. It just doesn't fly. Anyone can "do" all the right things and still be lost. But the Bible says salvation is by faith alone, plus nothing. Is this a license to sin? Not at all. But it is a guarantee made by God himself, and he will never disown us. We are "not our own, we were bought with a price". If we are not our own, then we cannot take ourselves back, and certainly no one else can take us out of God's hand.

So what does the CS believer tell the lost? Do this, do that? What did Paul tell the Philippian jailor? I don't see any strings attached to the gospel, and no fine print.

[50_Cent's_dog]

I don't want to ever bring up the subject OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) ever again because it is an arguement that neither side can win. The Bible can be used to back up both sides.

My pastor talked about getting into debates with other pastors today at church. He said that he can not win because the other pastors can use scripture to back up their points of view. He said that it is just nausiating.

I used to believe in the OSAS doctrine until I came on to Worthyboards. Half believe that you can lose your salvation once you are saved. Maybe you are right.

I have one question though. How can you lead others to Christ if you are not positive that you are going to heaven when you die? How can you be motivated to tell others about Salvation when you can lose it? Don't people want to believe in a faith that they can be sure of? I want a salvation that won't be taken from me.

Your brother in Christ,

Kevin

Or what specific sin puts you over the threshold of acceptance or how many sins unconfessed drops the bomb of "falling from grace"?

if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.Hebrews 6:6 NKJV

If they lose their salvation can they get saved again, and if so how do we justify Hebrews 6:6 which says one shot! In the Prodigal Son parable, at one point in the story did he cease to be his father's son? And wasn't that story told to reprimand the son who stayed home who wanted his brother disowned and shunned?

The prodigal son was never disowned by his father. The prodigal son remained the fathers child but he lost fellowship while he was away. The father was so happy to have a relationship with his son again. He didn't care about what sins the young man comitted but was so happy to have him back under his roof.

Thanks David!

[serotta]

What would have happened to the prodigal if he had died before he realized his error? Dieing as a slave in such a far off land, his father would never have been aware of his death, would he?