1 Corinthians 13:8, What do we do with this verse?

[Rober H]

26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

This is not even connected to our prayers nor is it connected to a prayer language.

Cannot be uttered

In other words the Spirit makes intercession for us. It is silent we don't just rattle off gibberish and call it a "prayer language".

Let me also point out one more scripture. 1 Corinthians 13:1 "THOUGH I speak with the tongues of MEN AND OF ANGELS, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

This isn't a heavenly language that Paul is referring to.

Cor 13:1 is a the use of hyperbole which is an extreme exaggerationthat is used to make a point.

He continues to use it in the following verses.

1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1 Corinthians 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

No one is going to help the poor and given his body to be burned for the faith and yet lacks love.

This is hyperbole...

When did an angel ever speak to man in a tongue (language) that could not be understood.

What passes for tongues (multiple languages) today is nonsense that is uttered and groaned but has no meaning.

To a bible search on tongue or tongues. It always means a language or languages or the organ of the mouth except for the exception of "tongues of fire" in the book of Acts.

There is no scriptural backing for the Charismatic and Pentecostal gibberish be passes off as a prayer language today.

TBN is a sad testament to where this type of confusion and gross misrepresentation leads.

The word of God edifies gibberish does not.

Edited June 6, 2006 by Rober H

[Rober H]

Butero wrote

You claimed it was for evangelism, but I have already shown that to be false.

Robert responds:

No I didn't and no you didn't.

If you have the inclination go back and read what I wrote and represent me correctly. I gave specific scriptures.

[thechild]

"...Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."

Have you ever preached the gospel to a dog?

i strive to be a living testament. every creature i encounter gets loved. and i dont believe preaching the gospel is all about saying the sinners prayer with someone. i wouldnt do that to someone unless god told me to.

but guess what? i suspect that this passage is an addition to the text. it is not that congruent with the rest of it. and it is not found in the majority of the most reliable manuscripts. it makes a perfect example, though of picking and choosing fromt he scriptures. i went years hearing that verse and i had to eventually, when i got smart and decided to read the bible myself instead of allow others to tell me what they want, read the rest of that passage on my own. it is still ignored. interestingly, in some form or fashion, i have fulfilled all of those signs.

[thechild]

You left out the fact that He was talking to the apostles and that the sign gifts were to confirm the word.

Mark 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

thats a good thing, because i dont preach to people unless the lord directs me.

[thechild]

There is no scriptural backing for the Charismatic and Pentecostal gibberish be passes off as a prayer language today.

TBN is a sad testament to where this type of confusion and gross misrepresentation leads.

The word of God edifies gibberish does not.

i knew we would find some common ground.

[thechild]

Sometimes it comes down to simply understanding to intended meaning. I think it is obvious God was meaning we were to preach to every person and by saying every creature he meant it in the broadest terms. He did not mean we were to preach to a dog, unless you are Dr. Doolittle I suppose and they can understand what you are saying.

I don't buy that most reliable manuscript dribble. I hold to the KJV only and steer clear from all those new translations that make such statements about certain portions of scripture.

you ignore the signs too?

[David from New Bern]

Dear David,

Blessings bro! You wrote:

"If speaking in tongues is a work of the Holy Spirit for the edification of the work of the church, if it enhances the spiritual intimacy of believers with their Lord, then it needs to be sought and practiced and embraced as a sign of the maturity of a believer advancing in the things of God. If it is not a work of the Holy Spirit, it is a distraction and a disception that Satan is using to divide the church local and universal. Disception meaning well intentioned people are pulled into believing they have something special and comforting that seems legitimate. If that is the case it is a Trojan Horse in the church. "

I have to say that i find this thread and most of (not all) of the posts discouraging. Honestly seeking information is one thing but this post stirs division up for what purpose to project that you believe speaking in tongues is a tool used by satan? I would ask you to earneslty reflect what is happening here to the body of Christ by the tone and the intention of this thread.

Just for the record i do beleive in the gifts All of them-i also do not nor ever have attended a pentacostal church or any church that ever taught or used tongues. Nor do i speak in tongues or pray too. So my belief is not based on experience nor desire rather through the Holy Spirit's interpretation of scripture.

I do note that many of the people on the boards here who do speak in tongues, like tah, nebula and others ,do not "throw" satan into the mix when the graciously responding that it is okay for you to not to. Why are you and the others here so quick to throw him into yours? I find this very dangerous if you are wrong you are giving credit to satan for that which is of God. Please carefully and prayerfully consider this.

Love your sister in Christ,

Rebekah David

Rebebekah...It is hard to repent of an objective statement that doesn't call you wrong or me right. My statement stands that the issue at hand that there is only one true answer. To embrace the right answer should be without reservation. If tongues that are happening in the church are legitimate, those not embracing it are missing the work of God here in a crucial point of church history and are guilty of quenching the Spirit...that is a sin...right. If people are practicing speaking in tongues and this is not a work of the Spirit but only an ignorant emotional response of sincere worshippers, Satan is having a heyday with this. i don't believe anyone should argue this...There is only one right answer...this is not simply a matter of preference, style, tradition, or doctrinal emphasis. It is of God or it is a counterfeit of Satan. In either case, our personal feelings should be intentionally sidelined and a hungry search for truth begun. God Bless you as you ask the "Teacher" what the truth is.

[thechild]

Sometimes it comes down to simply understanding to intended meaning. I think it is obvious God was meaning we were to preach to every person and by saying every creature he meant it in the broadest terms. He did not mean we were to preach to a dog, unless you are Dr. Doolittle I suppose and they can understand what you are saying.

I don't buy that most reliable manuscript dribble. I hold to the KJV only and steer clear from all those new translations that make such statements about certain portions of scripture.

you ignore the signs too?

And what might the signs be?

mark 16

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

[thechild]

Thanks for clarifying that. I didn't know what you meant. This is what I believe concerning the signs. I do believe we have the power to cast out devils. I have helped do that in the past. I am full gospel and believe in speaking in tongues. There is a story in acts about a viper grabbing hold of Paul's hand and when he should have fallen over dead, he suffered no ill effects. That is what I believe the scripture means when it speaks of taking up serpents or drinking poison. It doesn't mean doing so in a manner as to tempt God. Jesus refused to jump off a building to prove God's power and so I believe the same thing would apply here. At the same time, God is able to protect those who believe from death. I also believe in laying hands on the sick. We are taught that if there is any sick among us, we are to call upon the elders in the church, they are to lay hands on us, and the prayer of faith will save the sick, so I do believe these scriptures as well.

like all of the gifts, they are personal and for building up faith. they all depend on the individual - where they are at and what they need. like i said, they all seem to be fulfilled in me over the years and i didnt seek any of them out, believe me. with the exception of when i was a child and desired to speak in tongues at bible camp. pentecostals have their priorities all screwed up. i know, i used to be one.

[Guest jckduboise]

Many non-Christian religions know in their hearts that they have received visions and verbal messages from God.

I know people who claim that "Mary" appeared to them and gave them messages.

Joseph Smith claimed that the Father and the Son came to him and personally gave him revelation.

All these people make the "same claim".

Should we trust our feelings or the word of God which endures forever?

Peter called the scripture a "more sure word" placing it above his own experience. The apostles had a need for revelation and the "sign gifts" were used to give them credibility with the Jews.

2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

2 Peter 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

2 Peter 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Heed the sure word.

Tongues one of the sign gifts were given not for believers but for those "who believe not".

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

1 Corinthians 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

"This people" are the Jews as Paul is quoting Isaiah 28:11-12.

1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Do a word search on "tongues" and you will see that tongues=languages (plural) and tongue= language singular.

If I pray in Spanish to an English speaking congregation "I do pray well" but I alone am edified if I am the only one who understands Spanish. It would be better if I kept silent and prayed to myself unless an interpreter is present.

Think about it...

Robert

For some Robert, life is lonely. I am sorry that you have not experienced such gifts as visions and dreams. And though you believe it does not happen I do. God remains the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. If you believe that He doesn't communicate then you are very much missing out on a very intimate aspect of a relationship with our Father.

Perhaps someday He will blind you as He did Saul on the road to Damascus so that you too, will see and believe .

God Bless