loss of salvation?

[st. Worm]

Candi says:

"One must forgive their self and go on."

sw says:

I still cannot agree. Faith informs us that we are forgiven and while that should bring comfort to us, self-forgiveness is still irrelevant except in self-help 12 step programs.

[Candi770]

St Worm,

1. If an unbeliever forgives himself- he is still in sin.

2. If a believer forgives himself-he is taking the place of God.

3. And if he says, I know God has forgiven me, but I just can't forgive myself, he is placing his own judgment above God's merciful provision (james dobson)

I was speaking of #3 alone not 1 or 2.

Not receiving and believing God's forgiveness, either by not confessing sin or holding onto a self-righteousness that says, I can't forgive myself-is prideful and ungrateful. It places one's own evaluation over God's.

[st. Worm]

quote:

"It places one's own evaluation over God's."

sw:

Yet, God's evaluation of us is quite clear in Romans Chapter 1. The comfort of God's forgiveness is a wonderful thing. It is a comfort driven by the Spirit. Self forgiveness is of the flesh. I have often struggled with remorse over sinful acts that I know God has forgiven. I know God has forgiven but my remorse and disdain for my actions are not necessarily a bad thing. Indeed Jesus said I believe that we must sometimes hate ourselves.

[Candi770]

St Worm,

You are right- regardless-we are forgiven and must except it regardless of whether we feel it or not.

I know when I ask that:

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. and As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us

St Worm-how do we explain it to the unbeliever then or a believer that says for 20 years this sin still haunts him-and he as asked God to forgive him- they just have to deal with their flesh (correct??) Whats your perspective?

[st. Worm]

Candi quote:

St Worm-how do we explain it to the unbeliever then or a believer that says for 20 years this sin still haunts him-and he as asked God to forgive him- they just have to deal with their flesh (correct??) Whats your perspective?

sw:

Yes Candi, we must say that our feelings are never a good indicator of forgiveness and faith. I know I still suffer with things I have done in this life even though I am convinced of God's forgiveness. Just because we don't feel forgiven doesn't mean we aren't. I go to church and just because I don't feel I am being forgiven during confession and Holy Communion I still know the promise of Jesus is there for me. We all want salvation and the Christian life to be a grand experience yet it is seldom so. If we are honest, the harsh reality of what we still are eventually sets in and brings us back to earth. Cling to the promise, not what you feel about the promise.

blessings.

SW

[Openly Curious]

Candi quote:

St Worm-how do we explain it to the unbeliever then or a believer that says for 20 years this sin still haunts him-and he as asked God to forgive him- they just have to deal with their flesh (correct??) Whats your perspective?

OC

In my experience christians have offered little help in this area as far as advice. When G-d saves you your past sins are washed away and G-d forgives you and he don't remember your sins anymore even if I don't feel like i'm saved i know by faith i am. but the thing is G-d washed away my sins and forgot them but we still remember our past. which is why we must walk by faith and not give into false condemnation from the devil, our ownselves and from others.

I've been perplexed within my ownself and have ask recently some of these same questions but not just from sins of your past that haunt you but other things that haunt you. I know G-d forgave me of sins and I know he doesn't remember them even if i do that only makes me the more grateful to him in that regards. But God did not wash away others tresspasses against me away and these types of things can haunt one and control areas of life (flesh) as you say. so tragedies and turmoil that comes into one's life from others can hinder your walk with G-d. For these things i cannot find answers to because i want to do that which is right and not be controlled by such things as fear. There are areas and issues that keep me back from certain things because of being haunted. And this is no fault of my own but from others tresspasses towards me. But it's getting free from flesh and finding that freedom in christ as an overcomer is the hard thing and I find little help or advice in this arena.

[Candi770]

OC,

It's hard to forgive others when they have hurt us or to forget it once it is over. But when we do-we are saying that what they have done will no longer have control over our life. The problem can no longer lead your life or future. From that moment on you are free. We have to purpose in our heart to forget it. We have to settle it in our hearts-enough is enough! We must allow God to heal us.

I've had some deep woundings too, I had to settle it with God. I got alone with him and cryed out Abba Father- and I cryed out what was on my heart and I prayed for his forgiveness for me holding onto unforgiveness- I got it out of my heart, and settled in my heart it was over and I would not return to it again. The funny thing is that in the middle of my ranting- the Lord stopped me mid-sentence and I had forgot what I was speaking about- I had instant peace. I realized the following night that in another issue- I cried it out with Father- he stopped me mid-sentence again-I had peace. Other times, I've journaled issues out-and the Lord would show up and I started getting a understanding of my part-forgiveness and seeing them with the eyes of Jesus.

Should we allow people who have harmed us or hurt us deeply-should we allow those hurts to rule and reign in our lifes any longer- NO-

Forgiveness is a soothing balm for us. He said to love our enemies and pray for them- Do you think he did that only for their benefit only- No Way- He Loves us and wants us to be free.

What others have done to us is between them and God-Keep it that way!!

When the devil brings up someone who transgressed against me- I instantly pray for them- the devil starts catching on- and will stop.

As you pray for them-your heart will soften for them. They may never be the person you would want them to be-they may not be capable of Loving-because they themselves were never loved or knew how too- Somethings

have to be settled and Go on!!

As lead by the Lord- I had to die to my expections of others and let the Lord deal with me.

Let the Lord lead and guide you into this freedom and healing that you most need.

And in the future- if someone transgresses-forgive quickly and do not take offense-that way your not entangled again. Sometimes we must command it in our flesh-(in our mind)saying to ourself-I've forgiven them-it's settled!!

Blessings to ya!!

Sis

Candi

[suzanagimpel]

This was how God answered my prayers about this question. If I could loose my salvation.

I prayed for days and discussed with teachers in my church and christian friends and family members.

Than God send a friend that spoke my own language ( Portuguese) so I would not misunderstand. She was a christian woman from my church here in Florida.

She asked me this question:

If you went to a orphanage and adopted a child and in the future this child did something that would really disapoint you terrible, would you than sent this child back to the orphanage and take back your name.

My answer was no.

Than my friend asked me if you as a human being which we know are capable of great evil and are corrupted can refuse to take back this child think about a the loving God we serve which His mercies renew every morning.

From that day on I can not go back beliving that I could lose my salvation.

The prodigal son was still a son while feeding the pigs, the word did not called him a pig but still a son.

God is not a feeling, He is our father no matter if we feel his presence or not. The prodigal son did not feel his father near him but the love and the covenant between a son and a father was a fact.

Salvation is fact. God will not left it up to you to finish it he will finish the good work he started in you not yourself.

Love Suzana

[Openly Curious]

thanks for your comments candi i already been through the hard forgiveness part.

OC

[chrismarc]

From that day on I can not go back beliving that I could lose my salvation.

The prodigal son was still a son while feeding the pigs, the word did not called him a pig

but still a son. The prodigal son did not feel his father near him but the love and the covenant between a son and a father was a fact. Salvation is fact. God will not left it up to you to finish

it he will finish the good work he started in you not yourself. Love Suzana

But it's clear the son was lost until he came back to the Father, humbled

himself, begged for forgiveness and repented. Yes, the Father always loves

us, but we cannot wallow in our sinful ways and still be saved. Scripture is

clear on this. We must act on the faith we have been freely given.