Need Help

[littlejoe]

I have been sharing in the worship service of a UCC church for quite some time now. Now this church is considering becoming an open and affirming church.For those of you who do not know OAN is you can find it at *edit*. My question is does anyone believe you can be open and firming to a person without accepting the terms of OAN statement? Love in Christ littlejoe

[Christian]

The problem with the U.C.C. is that their policy of "inclusion" has widened to accept lifestyles of gay's and lesbians within their church system. By definition, their "Towards the 21st Century" creed sounds very "Christian", but is in practice it becomes a veil for tolerance of homosexuality and "diverse" views on faith.

Quoted from "Toward the 21st Century: A Statement of Commitment" on UCC website.

We acknowledge that we are far less inclusive than we are called to be. Therefore, we will intentionally reach out into the world and lovingly invite all to Christ, and to participate fully in the ordering of our common life.

We acknowledge that we sometimes find it difficult to accept the gifts that others bring. Therefore, we will seek to be open to those gifts, affirm them, learn from them, and, at the leading of the Holy Spirit, be transformed by them.

We acknowledge that the world in which we live is far more diverse than we have hitherto imagined. We celebrate this rich diversity. Therefore, united in Christ, we will reach toward it in anticipation of God's reign.

I was not able to discern what OAN was from their site, but thought I would put this truth out there for you.

God bless

-CC-

[elkieDannsa' Air An Drochaid]

Pray for a new home church and follow the Holy Spirits lead, not mans,

God bless

[apothanein kerdos]

Open and affirming means you have no problem with homosexuality/bisexuality but even support it (affirming). It's impossible to reject the terms yet accept the title.

[Guest jckduboise]

Find a fellowship of Christians that stick with the Truth of God. Being Godly does not always equal tollerance.

[Guest jckduboise]

Let me rephrase before I am misinterpreted..when I say Godly I am meaning being Christian/Christ minded..

[hebrews_beauty]

I don't know what that is, but I would consider finding a different church personally.

[littlejoe]

I don't know what that is, but I would consider finding a different church personally.

Thanks for all your answers I posted on two other sites but I haven't recieved any answer yet. Hopefully they will respond also. I see you edited the site I placed in my question, sorry thought it would be a good idea to allow the people here to know what I was talking about. The way the uuc church works is they bring up an issue the church wishes to adress,then they form a group of people to talk about the issue, then it is taken to the church Council and if the Council takes it to the congreation to vote yes or no.This only the second week for us to discuss the issue.I know this will be a longer post than I usually place on these boards but it is neccesary because you don't know me so I have to tell youmore about this issue and hopefully you will learn about me. The first meeting was to discuss equal right marriages for all. That is how it was said from the leader of the forum. Unfornately I feel he has another agenda. Because the first answer to the question on the ONA we must deal withit first. Personally I didn't like the idea of going through the back door. I told the prresident of council that it needs to be announced that the subject was changed or I don't contiune in

the forum. We will see they promised me they would. I felt verry lonely in that room, I was only one, so far that disagrees with the open and affirming question. Hopefully when the subject is anounced we will get others in that room, so we can have a better cross section of the church.I believe all people should be welcome in a church. I don't believe all should have the right to get married in the church, and I am speaking about GLB and Transgrender people. Although I not a congreational member and thereofre have no vote I am perrmitted to voice my beliefs thank God.I also attend worship services in the Lutheran Churchs. I believe that I can attend any church's worship service provided they Lift up The Lord Jesus. Should the Congretation vote in favor of the ONA policy I must leave. It will be hard,but necessary. Thanks again for all your help. Love in Christ littlejoe

[suzanagimpel]

I don't know what that is, but I would consider finding a different church personally.

Thanks for all your answers I posted on two other sites but I haven't recieved any answer yet. Hopefully they will respond also. I see you edited the site I placed in my question, sorry thought it would be a good idea to allow the people here to know what I was talking about. The way the uuc church works is they bring up an issue the church wishes to adress,then they form a group of people to talk about the issue, then it is taken to the church Council and if the Council takes it to the congreation to vote yes or no.This only the second week for us to discuss the issue.I know this will be a longer post than I usually place on these boards but it is neccesary because you don't know me so I have to tell youmore about this issue and hopefully you will learn about me. The first meeting was to discuss equal right marriages for all. That is how it was said from the leader of the forum. Unfornately I feel he has another agenda. Because the first answer to the question on the ONA we must deal withit first. Personally I didn't like the idea of going through the back door. I told the prresident of council that it needs to be announced that the subject was changed or I don't contiune in

the forum. We will see they promised me they would. I felt verry lonely in that room, I was only one, so far that disagrees with the open and affirming question. Hopefully when the subject is anounced we will get others in that room, so we can have a better cross section of the church.I believe all people should be welcome in a church. I don't believe all should have the right to get married in the church, and I am speaking about GLB and Transgrender people. Although I not a congreational member and thereofre have no vote I am perrmitted to voice my beliefs thank God.I also attend worship services in the Lutheran Churchs. I believe that I can attend any church's worship service provided they Lift up The Lord Jesus. Should the Congretation vote in favor of the ONA policy I must leave. It will be hard,but necessary. Thanks again for all your help. Love in Christ littlejoe

Hi,I read your explanation and feelt that the Bible has much more to say about sexual imorality at this church.

If a person become a member of a church it is my understanding trough the scripture that the church should judge the ones inside. And this is for their own good so they may learn how to walk in this earth and give glory to God trough their living testimony.

If a person can not commit to a Bible doctrined church the only alternative is for this person is to walk on their own. Only God can decided if this person is going to heaven or hell. My opinion is that if a person can not commit to Christ commandments and the church He has stabilish in this earth than is very unlikely that this person has been saved yet.

1 Corinthians 5:1-15

1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Love Suzana

[Smalcald]

Unfortunately this issue is coming up in variety of congregations, UCC being one, but also in ELCA Lutheran, United Methodist, Episcopalian USA, Presbyterian USA, and I think several others.

I think the Open and Affirming movement (which is just code words for gay sexual activity is cool with us, as is any sexual activity as long as it is adult and consensual) is actually just an indicator of the deeper spiritual condition of some of these denominations, although many congregations within these denominations are indeed okay. The problem is the trend is in my opinion unstoppable. The slide has been going on since at least the 60's, I do think it has been prophesized about in scripture.

The basic problem is that these denominations do not accept Holy Scripture as the Word of God. At some basic level they deny the faith. They believe that the Word is open to modern literary and historic criticism, meaning they say the right things about the bible guiding them, but as long as it is "reasonable" in today's moral climate, as long as it does not offend anyone, as long as it is not exclusive. That sounds okay and intellectual and maybe good, but it denies any power of the Holy Spirit and it denies the Truth, it specifically ends up denying that Christ is the way the truth and the light and NO man comes to the Father except through Christ. For example as a Lutheran (not ELCA obviously), I know that the ELCA Lutheran Church believes that it is not really important to believe Christ was born of a Virgin it is an option, like a multiple choice sort of faith, if something bugs you don't believe it. Some Episcopalians reject whole parts of the Christian Creeds, including the physical resurrection of Christ, in fact one of their bishops has written a book promoting this belief, and has not been excommunicated.

So the gay issue is just an indicator of something far more troubling, and that is really a move away from Christianity and our basic faith. I doubt in fifty or one hundred years that we will recognize these denominations as Christian in any sense of what that word means today, they will be another faith, Jesus will be seen as a great spiritual leader and guide, but His true power will be denied, He will not be seen as Creator and Lord, this will be denied as it may offend some, which is exactly what Satan wants. Probably they will be much more akin to the Unitarian Universalists of today.

Now I am not saying leave them point blank, just be warned that any true believer will face an on-going uphill struggle within any of these denominations, particularly if you want to speak out, or if you have the audacity to use scripture as your guide in arguing your case. I also don