Tongues what do you think? (MERGED TOPIC)

[Isaiah-smiles]

Hi, Daave. I am seeing one problem on your presented analogy. The instructions on women being silent in the church was clearly situational since there was a woman, Anna the prophetess, SPEAKING in the temple of God. Considering the contrast between Luke 2:36-38 and 1 Cor. 14:34, we can conclude that one of the two is an exception being situational.

And there was a prophetess, Anna the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was advanced in years, having lived with a husband seven years after her marriage, and then as a widow to the age of 84. And she never left the temple, serving night and day with fasting and prayers. And at that very moment she came up and began giving thans to God, and continued to speak of Him to all those who were loking for the redemption of Jerusalem. Luke 2:36-38

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 1 Cor. 14:34

If women were to be silent in the church, how could Anna speak in the temple of God if she was violating the law? Obviously, women speaking in the temple or church of God was not against the law. Thus, we can conclude that Paul was instructing the particular women at a particular church in Corinth who had to be instructed differently than the women in Jerusalem.

In this respect, the instruction of "speaking in tonques" cannot be held in the same position with that of "women being silent in the church" (as contrasted by Luke 2) since there are no contrasting instruction by any of the Apostles that tonques have ceased or will cease today.

The woman's role is not authoritive in the church. God loves women as much as He does men. Women are as important to the home, church, and society as men are. In Jesus Christ, women enjoy the same spiritual position and blessings before God as men do. This does not mean, though, there is to be no difference in men and women in their appearance and roles. There is a basic truth which needs to be restated in the church and society today: Men and women are different!

Men and women were made for different roles. The New Testament affirms that men are to be the leaders in the home, church, and state. Women were not created to rule these divine institutions; men were. The prophet Isaiah was condemning Israel when he said women ruled over them (Isa. 3:12). In the church, according to the Bible, no woman is qualified to be a pastor or a deacon or in any other leadership position over men. Who says? God says!

[peaceafire]

Out of interest, how can anyone know that someone isn't just speaking gibberish and making it up? There's no actual way to prove it, expect to take their word.

You're right, there is no way to acyually prove it. How can you be sure the person that says to you he is a Christian isn't just making it up. a lot of people call themselves Christian who in reality ae not. Does not the Bible say to try the spirits.

[irishcowboy]

1 Corinthians 13:8-13 (New International Version)

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

9For we know in part and we prophesy in part,

10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.

The Word, the Bible is that which is perfect, once it was completed in 90 AD with the writing of Revelation by John, there would be no more need of further prophecy, etc...because we have all the prophecy that God wants us to have.

[germanJoy]

So, what exact date did tongues stop? Did they stop when John put the last period at the end of the book of Revelation? Or maybe was it when the book left the Island? Or maybe it was when the first person off the Island read it. Or maybe it was when John died. Or perhaps it was on the day the Bible was cannonized. Or could it have perhaps been when i became available to the masses? Or perhaps could it have been When it was translatd into

English?

"Now we see through a glass dimly" Do you or I know it all? Unless the answer is yes, then you still see through a glass dimly.

"That which is perfect" The perfect is not the cannonized Bible, it is Jesus. Tongues will seek when Jesus sets up His earthly kingdom at the end of the Tribulation. We will then and only then not need the gifts of the Holy Spirit to operate.

hr.jr. Keep it up, brother!

How can christians believe that the bible is the "perfect" when in fact neither Jesus nor the Apostles ever prophesied or said that any book or "bible" will one day be called the "perfect". That is more to me just a heresy. You are right to say, hr.jr., that only Jesus Christ was ever referred to as the Perfect in the Scriptures. 1 Cor. 13:8-9 refers to the full redemption of the body of Christ when the day Jesus returns as the "perfect", no more no less.

Edited May 25, 2006 by germanJoy

[crab3]

Tounges stopped when the Bible was completed, roughly 90 a.d, as i said, as you quoted!

and of course not when it was translated into english, thats just stupid to say, english wasn't a language till long after then, you're reading into it to prove a point that isn't an issue, tounges stopped when that which is perfect came, it is the Christian belief that states the Bible is the God breathed infallible scripture, do we disagree on that? The Bible is perfect, God is perfect, Jesus is perfect, its in the book.

Now, to the argument, that 'that which is perfect,' in this instance, is Jesus. Read a little further to 13:13 about faith hope and charity, if that which is perfect is Jesus, Paul wouldn't even mention the word, or action faith, because with Jesus, we'll no longer need faith, and besides, don't you think he would say something along the lines of 'when that which is perfect RETURNS,' due to Jesus being here once.

And lastly, to the "Do you or I know it all? Unless the answer is yes, then you still see through a glass dimly." the answer IS YES, all that there is to know, is all that God wants us to know, and that information, no more no less, can be found in the Bible, its all there, the only reason we don't 'know it all,' is because we've yet to read the whole book, but i can tell you, its all there........

"germanJoy"

if you have only read the NT, and think that that is all you need to read, you are wrong, read, or re-read the OT, you'll find, and i truly hope you belive that both God and the Bible are refered to as perfect, along with Jesus. it doesn't bother you at all that during the time you were typing your last reply it didn't occur to you that at least God would have been refered to as perfect, or has the Mystery of Iniquity (Thessolonian) crept upon you to a point that even the thought that God is perfect gets clouded from your mind upon heated discussion.....

crabs><>

[thepreacher]

1 Corinthians 13:8-13 (New International Version)

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

9For we know in part and we prophesy in part,

10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.

The Word, the Bible is that which is perfect, once it was completed in 90 AD with the writing of Revelation by John, there would be no more need of further prophecy, etc...because we have all the prophecy that God wants us to have.

[thepreacher]

So, what passages do you see as specifically dealing with the prayer language version?

Mark,

Another one for you, "building up your most holy faith" by praying in the Holy Spirit or tongues.

There is a lot more justifying this but for now a scripture to ponder.

Jud 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

[crab3]

Satan does work in us, i know tounges are no more, but i also know that the works of satan can make people believe what they are doing is speaking in tounges, just like psycics think they can talk to spirits, satan is a powerful being and to deny that is only weakening yourself, letting your defenses down.

i know i'm not alone in my interpretation

i'm not saying that tounges WERE from satan, tounges are no more,

tounges were a teaching tool before the Bible, now that we have that, we don't need those gifts anymore.....

when was the last time you heard someone was raised from the dead.......

if the gift of tounges is here, so is that one

but they are not

crabs><>

[crab3]

Jud 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Jud was talking about the present, of course before the bible there would be tounges, but Jud isn't talking about the future like Paul in the instances of 1cor 13:8-13

[thepreacher]

Satan does work in us, i know tounges are no more, but i also know that the works of satan can make people believe what they are doing is speaking in tounges, just like psycics think they can talk to spirits, satan is a powerful being and to deny that is only weakening yourself, letting your defenses down.

i know i'm not alone in my interpretation

i'm not saying that tounges WERE from satan, tounges are no more,

tounges were a teaching tool before the Bible, now that we have that, we don't need those gifts anymore.....

when was the last time you heard someone was raised from the dead.......

if the gift of tounges is here, so is that one

but they are not

crabs><>

Comparing "raised from the dead" to "tongues" to me is like comparing the price of corn to how tall I am. Doesn't match.

God gives us the gifts he wants for us. If raising the dead isn't in his plans then he wouldn't. We as believers don't tell God to do anything or even take matters into our own hands. That doesn't mean every other gift has to stop.

Like I mentioned, has your knowledge gone away also with prophecy and tongues? I believe you are missing the point.

Jude is applicable to any believer wanting to mature in their most Holy faith and not be part of the mockers in the last time.

We are closer to the last days. If your knowledge is gone as you claim in 1Cor 13:8-13, of coarse you would not know this and I understand and see that by your testimony.

Jud 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Jud 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

Jud 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

Jud 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Jud 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.