neo-pharisees

[Rober H]

Charles Spurgeon

I cannot endure false doctrine, however neatly it may be put before me. Would you have me eat poisoned meat because the dish is of the choicest ware? It makes me indignant when I hear another gospel put before the people with enticing words by man who would fair make merchandise of souls; and I marvel at those who have soft words for such deceivers. "That is your bigotry," says one. Call it so if you like; but it is the bigotry of the loving John, who wrote, "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him Godspeed; for he that biddeth him Godspeed is partaker of his evil deeds." I would to God we all had more of such decision, for the lack of it is depriving our religious life of its backbone and substituting for honest manliness a mass of tremulous jelly of mutual flattery. He who does not hate the false does not love the true; and he to whom it is all the same, whether it be God's word or man's, is himself unrenewed at heart. Oh, if some of you were like your fathers, you would not have tolerated in this age the wagon loads of trash under which the gospel has been of late buried by ministers of your own choosing. The apostle spake by inspiration when he said, "If we or an angel from heaven preach to you any other gospel than that ye have received, let him be accursed." According to modern effeminacy he ought to have said, "Let him be kindly spoken with in private, but pray make no stir. No doubt the good brother has his own original modes of thought and we must not question his liberty. Doubtless he believes the same as we do, only there is some little difference as to terms." This is treason to Christ and treachery to truth and cruelty to souls. IF WE LOVE OUR LORD, WE SHALL KEEP HIS WORDS AND STAND FAST IN THE FAITH, coming out from among the false teachers. Nor is this inconsistent with charity; for the truest love to those who err is not to fraternize with them in their error, but to be faithful to Jesus Christ in all things."

Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

[apothanein kerdos]

Not all philosophy is man's philosophy. Again, the idea that we should rely on God IS a philosophy.

That sounds like philosophy.

The idea that we should rely on God is an absolute divine truth.

Which is a philosophical concept

Philosophy is the love of knowledge, or the declaration of knowledge. Modern philosophers have attempted to shape it into a search for knowledge, but this is not the case. A philosophy is a stance one takes when looking at the world, this is what it meant in the Greek and also what it meant for almost 2,000 years until philosophers began to shift what it means. Thus, under the real definition, if you are declaring something absolute and that we have to follow, you are following a certain philosophy.

please be careful as to what words you are using here.... 'wink' (words I enjoy myself.....meditation, contemplation, philosophy, reasoning, words written upon tablets of flesh................words I don't enjoy.....literalism (I just made that one up), religion, letter of law, and hate.

Why are any of those words wrong, especially contemplation, philosophy, and reasoning? Explain to me how they are "tablets of flesh" when they are commanded for us to learn by God.

Just my two cents but I think we should at least attempt to tie all this in with the topic. How did this become a thread based on word definitions alone?

What about people that want to warn the church about bad doctrine being called "neo-pharisees"?

Just wondering...

It has quite a bit to do with it. When we come out and say "All philosophy is wrong" or "all reasoning is inherently wrong" or at least say they are not of God, we become what is called "anti-intellectual." This term does not refer to being against people who are snobbish about it but instead to being against higher understanding, philosophy, logic, etc.

It is this attitude, so deep in evangelical Christianity, that has led to the false teachers you are bringing up. Because people have valued spirit over education seen them as mutually exclusive acts, people have fallen into false teachings.

You can complain about them all you want but until you address the root of the problem you're not going to fix a thing.

[Rober H]

Whatever...

[apothanein kerdos]

Whatever...

Don't ask a question if you don't expect an answer or are just going to give a knee-jerk response. If you ask a question, expect an answer that gives good reason behind it. The fact is, the bigger problem with the false teachers is that the Christians who follow them, as a whole, are highly undereducated in theology (which includes reason, philosophy, knowledge, etc). If you want to get rid of the problem of false teachers, then you have to explore Christian theology and start promoting a stance that is in favor of Christian education on these issues. Simply pointing out a false teacher to one not studied in theology is not going to do a thing. THis is why we were discussing philosophy. This was not a diversion from the topic but instead addressing the deeper problem.

Now, if you can't handle that answer, I suggest you not ask questions or at least explain you don't want an answer to the question.

[BlindSeeker]

Charles Spurgeon

I cannot endure false doctrine, however neatly it may be put before me. Would you have me eat poisoned meat because the dish is of the choicest ware? It makes me indignant when I hear another gospel put before the people with enticing words by man who would fair make merchandise of souls; and I marvel at those who have soft words for such deceivers. "That is your bigotry," says one. Call it so if you like; but it is the bigotry of the loving John, who wrote, "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him Godspeed; for he that biddeth him Godspeed is partaker of his evil deeds." I would to God we all had more of such decision, for the lack of it is depriving our religious life of its backbone and substituting for honest manliness a mass of tremulous jelly of mutual flattery. He who does not hate the false does not love the true; and he to whom it is all the same, whether it be God's word or man's, is himself unrenewed at heart. Oh, if some of you were like your fathers, you would not have tolerated in this age the wagon loads of trash under which the gospel has been of late buried by ministers of your own choosing. The apostle spake by inspiration when he said, "If we or an angel from heaven preach to you any other gospel than that ye have received, let him be accursed." According to modern effeminacy he ought to have said, "Let him be kindly spoken with in private, but pray make no stir. No doubt the good brother has his own original modes of thought and we must not question his liberty. Doubtless he believes the same as we do, only there is some little difference as to terms." This is treason to Christ and treachery to truth and cruelty to souls. IF WE LOVE OUR LORD, WE SHALL KEEP HIS WORDS AND STAND FAST IN THE FAITH, coming out from among the false teachers. Nor is this inconsistent with charity; for the truest love to those who err is not to fraternize with them in their error, but to be faithful to Jesus Christ in all things."

Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

From under the shadow of the broad brim were uttered countless words of wisdom . . .

Charles Hadden Spurgeon -

"Many books in my library are now behind and beneath me; I read them years ago, with considerable pleasure; I have read them since with disappointment; I shall never read them again. They were good in their way once, and so were the clothes I wore when I was ten years old

[Rober H]

The reason hereticks like those found on TBN like to call people who dare question their doctrinal positions names such as neo-phairsees, heresey hunters, etc. is a diversion.

They cannot defend their doctrinal positions from the bible which is the believers final authority for faith and practice so they use other tactics.

Here is highly praised by TBN Benny Hinn trying to get people to make a "seed faith offering" by making outrageous claims.

April 2nd, 2000 - TBN Praise-a-thon

"Ladies and gentleman, Jesus is shaking the world! Now something else is happening that is to me awesome! Absolutely awesome! The Lord is physically appearing in the Muslim world. I'm telling you, Paul, I am hearing it now more and more and more. Since we preachers cannot go there, Jesus is - just going there Himself. Since we preachers are not permitted to go in, He is just showing up - Himself. You know the Scriptures says clearly that the Lord did appear, did He not? Ah for forty days, isn't that right? And the, and the, and the Scriptures says he, he, he even, he even appeared to Paul. Now we are always thinking, well Jesus can't really preach, preach the Gospel. Who told you that? He was the first one to preach the Gospel. In fact He is the one who came to Paul and said, Paul, I am Jesus. He, He didn't send no angel to do that job. He did it Himself. If Jesus revealed Himself to Paul, why not reveal Himself to a lot more than just Paul? And He is doing it! The reason the Lord had to appear to Paul is because He knew Paul wouldn't listen to nobody else. Now in the case of Cornelius, the angel said send for Peter, 'cause, because Cornelius was, was ready, his heart was right, he'd been in prayer. But here's Paul killing everybody, causing 'em to blaspheme, Jesus said this man won't even listen to an angel, so I'll go do the job myself. So He went and knocked him right off his horse and preached the Gospel to him. He's doing the same thing today in the Muslim world. He's appearing, hear this, He is appearing to Muslims, saying I am Jesus of Nazareth! And they're coming to know the Lord! Why are those things happening? It's the last days! Saints, this is why we need to give to the Gospel now more than ever. You know naively say well I gave last year. Forget it! Last year it's gone! That cycle is over with! Seed time - harvest of last year is gone. Every season is a fresh season. We are in a fresh season. What, what you gave last year will not reap you anything this year. What you gave even a few months ago is gone, you got the harvest for that."

- Benny Hinn

For more click here.

http://cultlink.com/ar/hinnfalse.htm

This is a short quote from the above link by Hinn.

1999 Praise-a-Thon, Trinity Broadcasting Networks

" Now, some of you will have to step out in faith tonight," Hinn said. "You may not even have the money right now. In fact, most times you make a pledge you don't even have it."

Then he followed up with a warning to the skeptics. "You know, you do not get under the kind of anointing I get under just because you sing hallelujah," Hinn said.. ''There's a heavy price and I would not want to be in the shoes of the one who touches the anointing. Don't touch the anointing!"

Deuteronomy 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Edited June 13, 2006 by Rober H

[Rober H]

Another quote from liar and charlaton Benny Hinn just before the year 2,000 was coming.

You have to read this whole article to believe the depth of deception this "wolf in sheeps clothing" will use to spiritually bully money out of his deceived followers.

http://www.cultlink.com/ar/hinnfalse.htm

The Christian Sentinel article by Jackie AlnorJune 2001 .

"I'm giving you a prophetic word. You know the scripture says they prospered because they obeyed his prophets. I'm telling you tonight, I'm speaking prophetically. Obey the Lord!"

Hinn had a solution for those who were short on cash, -- liquidate! ""You know if I was you and God spoke to me like this, I'd take it out of my investments to give it to God now cause it's already spring and the year 2000 is almost next door."

So now that the year 2000 has come and gone with no casualties to count, will TBN refund the extorted funds? Don't count on it!

No wonder Hinn and Crouch "smile like saints one minute" and then growl the next minute at anyone who dare to question and expose them for the con artists they really are.

http://www.biblebelievers.net/Exposes/kjcrouch.htm

That old rotten Sanhedrin crowd, twice dead, plucked up by the roots ... they're damned and on their way to hell and I don't think there's any redemption for them ... the hypocrites, the heresy hunters that want to find a little mote of illegal doctrine in some Christian's eyes ... when they've got a whole forest in their own lives. ...

"I say, `To hell with you! Get out of my life! Get out of the way! Quit blockin' God's bridges! I'm tired of this! ... This is my spirit. Oh, hallelujah!' ...

"Have you ever seen the old movie, Patton? ... He's my hero; he's my hero. Old nail-chewin', tobacco-chewin', cussin' Patton--but he read the Bible every day. I have a feelin' we'll see old General George in heaven. ...

\"There's a wonderful scene in Patton ... they're tryin' to get the Third Army across the bridge in France and there's an old, dumb jackass--donkey--right there on the bridge and it's blockin' the whole convoy of troops ... General George roars up, pulls that ivory- handled revolver out ... and he shoots the donkey. ...

"There's a spiritual application here. ... I want to say to all you scribes, pharisees, heresy-hunters, all of you that are around pickin' little bits of doctrinal error out of everybody's eyes and dividin' the Body of Christ ... get out of God's way, stop blockin' God's bridges, or God's goin' to shoot you if I don't ... let Him sort out all this doctrinal doodoo!

"I don't care about your doctrines as long as you name the name of Jesus, as long as you believe He died dead [sic] and was buried but came out of the tomb on Sunday morning and ascended to the Father ... I don't care about anything else! Let's join hands ... to get this gospel preached in all the world.

"The rest of this stuff is what Paul the Apostle calls dung--human excrement! It's not worth anything! Get rid of it ... and get on with winning the lost.

"I refuse to argue any longer with any of you out there! Don't even call me if you want to argue doctrine, if you want to straighten somebody out ... criticize Ken Copeland ... or Dad Hagin. Get out of my life! I don't even want to talk to you ... I don't want to see your ugly face!"

Arm yourselves with the truth of God's word. Here is a link to "Let Us Reason Ministries" with some shocking statments made on TBN by other money loving false teachers.

http://www.letusreason.org/Pent37.htm

[irishcowboy]

Thanks to TBN men like Schuller, Hinn, Hagin, and many others false doctrines have confused many believers who believe that the "Holy Spirit" has given and blessed these men with an understanding the rest of us don't have and all these men are considered to be "solid teachers and leaders".

If no one points out these errors they will continue to grow like a cancer.

I thought this merited repeating.

maybe so,

has anyone approached these men and pointed out their errors? or are they just being gossiped against?

[Rober H]

Thanks to TBN men like Schuller, Hinn, Hagin, and many others false doctrines have confused many believers who believe that the "Holy Spirit" has given and blessed these men with an understanding the rest of us don't have and all these men are considered to be "solid teachers and leaders".

If no one points out these errors they will continue to grow like a cancer.

I thought this merited repeating.

maybe so,

has anyone approached these men and pointed out their errors? or are they just being gossiped against?

They have been exposed and confronted many times in private and in public but they just excuse away there heresy.

I talked to Dave Hunt and he has written and confronted many of these men and they "brush him off".

Did you read the comments of Paul Crouch about "heresey hunters"?

These men are public figures making public comments.

They need to be publically exposed for their false teachings and methods of conning money from their sincere but misguided viewers.

Paul named names and exposed heresy.

2 Timothy 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

1 Timothy 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

John did too.

3 John 1:9-10 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not. Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.

That isn't gossip.

[irishcowboy]

next question.....

does anyone actually spend time in prayer for these men, lifting them up before the Lord so that they may have their hearts opened, their eyes opened to see what they are doing is not totally correct?

or are we ready to run them through with our swords because we are more righteous then they are?

Gossip does not have to be false to be called gossip..... if what is being said is true, but does not lift the person up, or correct them, exhalt them, eddify them, correct them, teach them, it is gossip. yes, it may be 100% true, but if it is done with out love, with out that persons knowledge, with out the person being allowed to stand up and speak for themselves, it is nothing more then gossip.....

even some peoples prayer request are nothing more then justified gossip.

If some one is on a pedistal, and they fall..... WHO PUT THEM THERE???? I not seen many people place themselves on a pedistal while doing the work of God, it is those that worship the man rather then the King. then the man falls, and everyone is ready to pounce on the man, to slay the man for falling when we were the ones that put them there in the first place.....

so whos fault is it when a man of God falls????

mike