Sin?

[nebula]

This one -

Luke 12

35 "Be dressed ready for service and keep your lamps burning, 36 like men waiting for their master to return from a wedding banquet, so that when he comes and knocks they can immediately open the door for him. 37 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes. I tell you the truth, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them. 38 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, even if he comes in the second or third watch of the night. 39 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. 40 You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."

41 Peter asked, "Lord, are you telling this parable to us, or to everyone?" 42 The Lord answered, "Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? 43 It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. 44 I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45 But suppose the servant says to himself, 'My master is taking a long time in coming,' and he then begins to beat the menservants and maidservants and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

Sorry that this got lost in the shuffle today. What was your question for me about this nebula?

sw

So what does it mean to you when Jesus said, "Watch and be ready"?

[wykael]

I wholeheartedly agree with the statement that a Christian needs to be constantly striving to defeat sin. Not only the unintentional, but the intentional. As Paul stated, I continually do what I am not supposed to do, and don't do what I am supposed to do. If that doesn't describe willful sin, I don't know what does. But Paul is not saved then? Hardly. Being a Christian is striving to be Christ-like. But we are not Christ, and we will fail. That's not license to fail. But it is meant to give us hope, since we know we are human, and can pick ourselves up aftere yet another failure, and try again. "You don't drown by falling into the water. You drown by staying there." (not a Bible quote. Just a favorite of mine to remind myself that a failure doesn't make me a failure.

What I don't agree with is Suzanne's apparent claim that she doesn't willfully sin. Sorry, but that's a load of crap. Come down out of the hot air balloon (as I have read elsewhere in this thread) and admit you are human. If you claim to be without sin, you are claiming to be like Christ, and you are not, except through the blood of Jesus. Thanks for all the judgement you have cast in this thread. Sorry we can't all be as "good" as you. But that doesn't make you any more "saved" than the rest of us. We don't look for permission to sin. But we do fail from time to time, and it's sure nice to know that through all my failures, I'm still a child of God. My kids disappoint me sometimes too. But I certainly don't turn my back on them because of it. Why? Because I am raising them in a home of Christian ideals, and that's how God parents.

Nebula, what is meant by "watch and be ready" is exactly the point being made here. Personal failure in sin is forgiven. But that doesn't mean we are to just go out and sin because we're automatically forgiven. At the day of attonement, every child of God will be allowed into the place He has gone to prepare for us. But we also will have to account for our deeds here on Earth. Watch and be ready. Go and sin no more. Do your very best to follow the example Jesus has set out for us, and live up to the sacrifice He made for us. And when you fail (and we ALL do), turn to Christ. Ask for forgiveness. And try your best not to do it again, because in the end, you will be asked about it.

Edited July 20, 2006 by wykael

[eric]

My view. Gluttony and drunkeness are health disorders that can and have been cured by the proper counselling and the desire to seek the Lord and repent and commit your life to serving Him. Still here again you are trying to hijack the thread. You are, as Suzanne said, trying to find loop holes to get you off the hook when you deliberately sin. This thread is about being caught in a sinful situation, after you have committed yourself to the Lord, and up to, the hour of Christ's return. You have been given scripture after scripture by myself, Suzanne, Nedula and others, but you wont listen.

As the word says, Not everyone who calls me Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom of the heavens, but only he who does the will of My Father. Matt.7:21. So watching porn on the hour of His return is not doing the will of the Father and Jesus will say I never knew you. depart from Me.

You can do what you like mate. Me and my house will serve the Lord. I'm sick of

[nebula]

I say if I am a glutton, I harm only myself (heart disease, etc.) My physical therapist friend, on the other hand, highly disagrees with this statement (she says with hurt back).

I would say gluttony does harm other people.

You missed what I said about my physical therapist friend.

The point you seem to be making is that as long as your sin does not harm anyone else, then it is ok. It is ok to be fat because it harms no one else.

As long as sin harms no one else, it is ok? That is not quite what the Bible teaches.

You missed my point big-time.

"What is disturbing to me about this debate is the selfish focus it has with regard to sin."

Re-read the OP. Then read what I just said here in bold. Then think about what I meant. OK?

[st. Worm]

This one -

Luke 12

35 "Be dressed ready for service and keep your lamps burning, 36 like men waiting for their master to return from a wedding banquet, so that when he comes and knocks they can immediately open the door for him. 37 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes. I tell you the truth, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them. 38 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, even if he comes in the second or third watch of the night. 39 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. 40 You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."

41 Peter asked, "Lord, are you telling this parable to us, or to everyone?" 42 The Lord answered, "Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? 43 It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. 44 I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45 But suppose the servant says to himself, 'My master is taking a long time in coming,' and he then begins to beat the menservants and maidservants and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

Sorry that this got lost in the shuffle today. What was your question for me about this nebula?

sw

So what does it mean to you when Jesus said, "Watch and be ready"?

For Luke 12, the NKJV says "Let your waist be girded" in verse 35. This clearly implies a call to always be ready to be of service to God. Girding your waist would be to keep your robe or garb tied up so that you are ready for work or service. Always be prepared to serve the master, even in the 'second and third watch".

Verse 41, without going into detail this seems to be consistant with Paul's writing in Romans about mankind's knowledge of sin that is ingrained in our nature. Even the most isolated person cannot plead ignorance of God or his Law. Those who have not been directly confronted with God's Word, like the isolated person mentioned, may be beaten with less stripes but will be beaten nonetheless. That same theme goes for "to whom much as given much will be required. If you go further into verse 51 which you did not cite in your question, Jesus describes the division he is bringing to the world. All will be judged justly and accordingly and none will be exempted from that judgment. However, those who have true faith will receive their portion of the Kingdom. If we remember the Law/Gospel distinction, this passage is clearly talking about Law and its judgment which we all face.

sw

[Pilgrim7]

Sin is sin!!!

It separates from God. Just look back to the Garden of Eden. Was it a big sin eating the forbidden fruit. It was disobedience against God. That is what made it sin, not whether it was big or little. To willfully disobey God separates the soul from Him, grieves the Holy Spirit and cuts off communication with Him until one responds to the convicting power of the Spirit and repents of His sin.

Adam and Eve were 'saved souls', yet their sin separated them from God, they ran and hid from God and caused the death of Jesus because of their 'little' sin, for it separated then from God and thus all they could do as sinners is hurt others instead of be a blessing to them.

Here is what the Holy Spirit says of sin to the 'Professing Christian':

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knows to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin.

How do we know what is Good?

From the Scriptures:

All sin defiles the temple of God, for it is holy.

1co 3:16 Don't you Know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

1co 6:19 What? Don't you know that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which you have of God, and you are not your own?

6:20 For you are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. .

God bless,

Dennis

[Smalcald]

Also on the pastor question remember that we have biblical guides that we as a congregation should follow. Being fat is not mentioned, being a public drunk is, however that has nothing to do with the salvation of the pastor or his sins, it has to do with our adherence to scripture.

But we have several examples in scripture of what types of things the carnal mind, the mindset of the flesh will produce, and the end of those things is death.

[nebula]

So what does it mean to you when Jesus said, "Watch and be ready"?

For Luke 12, the NKJV says "Let your waist be girded" in verse 35. This clearly implies a call to always be ready to be of service to God. Girding your waist would be to keep your robe or garb tied up so that you are ready for work or service. Always be prepared to serve the master, even in the 'second and third watch".

Verse 41, without going into detail this seems to be consistant with Paul's writing in Romans about mankind's knowledge of sin that is ingrained in our nature. Even the most isolated person cannot plead ignorance of God or his Law. Those who have not been directly confronted with God's Word, like the isolated person mentioned, may be beaten with less stripes but will be beaten nonetheless. That same theme goes for "to whom much as given much will be required. If you go further into verse 51 which you did not cite in your question, Jesus describes the division he is bringing to the world. All will be judged justly and accordingly and none will be exempted from that judgment. However, those who have true faith will receive their portion of the Kingdom. If we remember the Law/Gospel distinction, this passage is clearly talking about Law and its judgment which we all face.

Why do I have the feeling you managed to find the way to put a square peg into a round hole.

Have you figured out how Rev. 2:12-29 is consistent with Romans 7 as well?

Rev. 2

12 "And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write,'These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword: 13 I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan's throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. 14 But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. 15 Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. F11 16 Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth. 17 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it." '

18 "And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write,'These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: 19 I know your works, love, service, faith, F12 and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. 20 Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow F13 that woman F14 Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce F15 My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. F16 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their F17 deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works. 24 Now to you I say, and F18 to the rest in Thyatira, as many as do not have this doctrine, who have not known the depths of Satan, as they say, I will F19 put on you no other burden. 25 But hold fast what you have till I come. 26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations-- 27 'He shall rule them with a rod of iron; They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter's vessels'-- F20 as I also have received from My Father; 28 and I will give him the morning star. 29 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." '

[EricH]

Adam and Eve were 'saved souls', yet their sin separated them from God, they ran and hid from God and caused the death of Jesus because of their 'little' sin, for it separated then from God and thus all they could do as sinners is hurt others instead of be a blessing to them.

Adam and Eve were not saved souls. They were innocent until they committed sin. They had not had the blood oaf Jesus applied for the sins they committed. That is a big difference. In other words, as originally created, Adam and Eves relationship with God was based on their own innocence. As believers, our relationship with God is based on Jesus' innocence and sacrifice.

[Pilgrim7]

EricH,

'Saved souls' meaning that they had eternal life and were in the grace of God. You know what I was really getting at. They were in a 'saved condition', free from sin and heirs of eternal life. Their sin separated them from God for sin always separates from God. Until they sinned, they did not need the blood of Christ applied to them because they were righteous or innocent, which amounts to the same thing. As innocent beings, they willfully chose to sin and separated themselves from God. Had Jesus not already decided to die for sin, they would have been eternally lost.

It was because of their sin that they 'lost eternal life.' That was the point. They needed the 'blood of Jesus' to cover them because of their sin and they needed to have 'eternal life' restored to them and a 'New Heart' restored in them. It is amazing how quickly Cain lost His eternal life after that. They were saved from sin through their faith in the Blood of the Lamb, they were forgiven and given a 'new heart' so that they could serve God in holiness and righteousness even as we are saved.

God bless,

Dennis