Christmas or Xmas?

[Guest Calamity]

I didn't know about the Christian meaning of the 'X', until a few years ago. But - yes, it has always upset me to see 'X-Mas'. Usually, the places I saw it first seemed to be in ads in the newspapers and in store windows, like they were saving space or something, and taking a short cut. Considering the fact that many, if not most, people are not aware of the X meaning, and like Dove says, that we don't need to hide Christ now, like they did before, I don't use it, and probably won't use it. Another thing I've noticed, is that during the "Holiday Season", around December and January, many of the commercialized places and people on TV all say Season's Greetings or Happy Holidays, and omit the word Christmas altogether - like it's not there, but will call New Year's and everything else by name. One thing interesting, though - I collect antique newspapers, and have seen the headline "X-Mas" in Christmas sale ads from the late 1800's. That surprised me, but after I found out about the 'X', it makes more sense. I had always thought that was a more modern short cut.

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

CHRIST is the reason for every season

[jesusislord]

blessings BROTHERS AND SISTERS....

WE all now know all of the symbols mean but dont u think that this a very cunning way that satan is using to remove the LORD JESUS CHRIST FROM THE SEASON...... Anything to hide the LOVE OF OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR...... He will do....... dont u think.

BLESSINGS TO MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST

jesusislord.... richard

[sagz4Christ]

We DO know the meanings of the symbols....and the Chi-Rho is actually considered a monogram of sorts...because it is the first and second letters of Jesus' name......the "x" is the closest I can get to the greek for "Ch" I think....and the "P" resembles most closely the greek letter that stands for "R" if I am not mistaken.

It is kind of like our initials if you will.....loose translation...I don't know if that explination is satisfactory....but I don't see a problem....using the Chi-Rho in place of Christ....though I like the sound of my Savior's namein full ALOT more!!

Anyway....Christmas....and Xmas are basically one and the same. I think of it as getting people to say "Christ"mas without knowing it!!

"Whether in pretense or in truth....at least the Gospel is getting preached!"

Didn't Paul say that?

~serving Christ in humility

[endure4salvation]

Sagz, that is EXACTLY what I was hoping for when I started this thread. Thank you for the clairfication (maybe my spelling needs it as well! )

I always thought that if you spelled it X-mas, you were attempting to 'x-out' Christ, but further study reveals just the opposite. Thank you, brother!

[myrockJesus]

whenever it started , I'm not sure,

the churchs kept adding pagan

rituals to their ways to attract

more numbers...dec. was some big

thing for the pagan, so they

decided to do christmas.

and say it was when Jesus was born, not!

He was born sometime in Sept.

same thing for His death and resurrection

He died on a Wed. and was resurrected

on Sat. 3 pm israeli time

and easter, the word , comes from a pagan queen, also

2 sabbaths in

the week our Lord suffered for us!

more than likely the devils by friday,

were convinced He wasn't coming back and started

celebrating....hince the term..good friday...not!

Jesus is calling His Bride out of all the false churchs.

lots of tradidions have to be thrown out.

remember( tradition stiffles truth,) amen.

way back in the old test. the tree thing was going on.

don't get me wrong, it was my favorite,

finding a beautiful tree cutting it

and dec. it , big doing's at our house , not any more

not since I learned the truth

and escaped out of the false church, thank you Jesus, amen.

Jeremiah 10: 1,2,3,4,5

Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

It is Written!, amen

the word luck comes from lucifier

God's kids know there is no such thing as luck

the saying ho ho ho

comes from pagans cursing Johovah

santa.....satan....see a resemlance?

who gets to credit there for our blessing

to be able to buy anything

Santa.....NOT!

all lies....they have to stop

Jesus is coming back for a spotless Bride

through out traditions, if you never researched them,

they could be a form of satanic ritual.

God help us and bless us, little rock <><

[endure4salvation]

Jeremiah 10: 1,2,3,4,5

For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

Quoting the OT for something that happened long after the NT was complete?

I would have to question this...

[CWJ]

I think the question is Does God want us to practice the pagan things and attribute them to His Glory?

Is this in His will....once we have come to the knowledge of the truth of the pagan origin?

I not talking legalism but obedience.

Do the scriptures tell us the answers?

We "celebrate" His birthday on a date that was first used to celebrate a pagan Goddess and her "son" who died and came to life.

We use MANY traditions of certain pagan origin. Is this time one of ONLY christian worship and celebration....or is there worldly celebration.....consumerism.....how many smiles and how much joy do you see on faces at the malls?

Are we unable to turn from a lifelong worldly tradition? Is it too much "fun"?

mmmmmm....I have to question all this!

I know where you are coming from....myrockJesus.....

[Guest Calamity]

I found this interesting article on the web about this subject:

---------------------------

"A number or well-meaning readers of the "Origin and Meaning of the Christmas Tree" article have written me with questions or accusations based on Jeremiah 10. These readers state that Jeremiah 10 proves that the Christmas tree is a pagan custom and is forbidden by God. Therefore, they argue, all those who decorate a Christmas tree in their home are sinning in God's sight. This is quite the serious charge. Let us briefly examine Jeremiah 10 and the argument based upon it to see if there is any merit to this argument.

What exactly does Jeremiah 10 say? Below is Jeremiah 10:1-10:

This is what the LORD says: "Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the sky, though the nations are terrified by them. 3 For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. 4 They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter. 5 Like a scarecrow in a melon patch, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good." 6 No one is like you, O LORD; you are great, and your name is mighty in power. 7 Who should not revere you, O King of the nations? This is your due. Among all the wise men of the nations and in all their kingdoms, there is no one like you. 8 They are all senseless and foolish; they are taught by worthless wooden idols. 9 Hammered silver is brought from Tarshish and gold from Uphaz. What the craftsman and goldsmith have made is then dressed in blue and purple-- all made by skilled workers. 10 But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King. When he is angry, the earth trembles; the nations cannot endure his wrath.

The verses that the concerned readers repeatedly cite are 10:2-4: "Do not learn the ways of the nations . . . For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. 4 They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter." "Aha!" these readers say. "Jeremiah is talking about the Christmas tree!" But closer examination reveals that he certainly is not!

First, there is the immediate context of this passage. The very next verse, 10:5, goes on to say, "Like a scarecrow in a melon patch, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good." This passage and the passages that follow make it crystal clear that the "decorated tree" that Jeremiah was talking about in 10:3-4, was a tree that was cut down and made into an idol, a very common custom in the ancient world. 10:8-10 also confirms this, where the wooden idols are contrasted with the LORD, who is the true and living God. Keil and Delitsch, the well-respected Old Testament commentary, confirms this interpretation that the trees in question were idols that were then worshiped (C. F. Keil and F. Delitsch, Commentary on the Old Testament, "Jeremiah, Lamentations," vol 8 (Grand Rapids: William B. Eeerdmans Publishing Company, 1980), 196-199).

Second, when we search the rest of the Old Testament, we find many other examples of trees being planted, cut down, or carved into idols. One of the most common examples of a tree idol was the Asherah, mentioned often in the Old Testament. Asherah was a pagan goddess that was worshiped throughout the Mediterranean world. She was considered to be the goddess of the sea, the consort of El, and the mother of Baal. She was always represented as a tree or pole, either planted or erected, then decorated. There are many warnings in the Old Testament about the Asherah tree. For example, in Exodus 34:12-14, we read, "Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land where you are going, or they will be a snare among you. 13 Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and cut down their Asherah poles. 14 Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God." From a more thorough study we learn that the Asherah idol was sometimes planted (Deut. 16:21; Micah 5:14), sometimes erected at high places (1 Kings 14:23, 2 Kings 17:10), with altars and incense stands next to them where they would be worshiped (In Judges 6:25, Gideon is commanded by God to "Tear down your father's altar to Baal and cut down the Asherah pole beside it." See also Isaiah 17:8 and Jeremiah 17:2). The Asherah, along with other man-made idols, were often decorated with various cloth hangings (2 Kings 23:7), as well as gold and silver.

Isaiah 44:14-19 gives a detailed picture of how a tree was cut down and fashioned into an idol - and the absurdity of it all.

He cut down cedars, or perhaps took a cypress or oak. He let it grow among the trees of the forest, or planted a pine, and the rain made it grow. 15 It is man's fuel for burning; some of it he takes and warms himself, he kindles a fire and bakes bread. But he also fashions a god and worships it; he makes an idol and bows down to it. 16 Half of the wood he burns in the fire; over it he prepares his meal, he roasts his meat and eats his fill. He also warms himself and says, "Ah! I am warm; I see the fire." 17 From the rest he makes a god, his idol; he bows down to it and worships. He prays to it and says, "Save me; you are my god." 18 They know nothing, they understand nothing; their eyes are plastered over so they cannot see, and their minds closed so they cannot understand. 19 No one stops to think, no one has the knowledge or understanding to say, "Half of it I used for fuel; I even baked bread over its coals, I roasted meat and I ate. Shall I make a detestable thing from what is left? Shall I bow down to a block of wood?"

From the foregoing, it is abundantly clear that the "decorated tree" to which Jeremiah 10 refers is an idol, very likely the Asherah. Therefore, it is very superficial Bible interpretation and pure silliness to understand this passage as directly referring to the use of a fir tree for Christmas! If, and I repeat, if those who set up a Christmas tree fall down and worship it as a god or goddess, complete with altars and incense stands, then Jeremiah 10 applies here. Or if someone loves their Christmas tree more than God, then such a thing might also be considered spiritual idolatry. But apart from these exceptions, I think it is abundantly clear that Christians who erect Christmas trees are NOT worshiping them as gods or goddesses, nor are they loving them more than their Savior Jesus Christ. They are simply using the Christmas tree as a fun custom, one that can remind them of Jesus who is the branch of David (Jeremiah 23:5; 33:15), the root of Jesse (Isaiah 11:1). One that can remind them of the tree that led Adam and Eve to sin, but more importantly, the tree on which Christ Jesus died to make atonement for the sins of the whole world (Acts 5:30; Gal. 3:13; 1 Peter 2:24).

Christians should know that they can use a Christmas tree with a good conscience. It is unfortunate and wrong when well-meaning Christians call something sin that is not sin, and enslave the consciences of their fellow believers with imaginary sin! Shame on such Christians! Those who continue to believe that the Christmas tree is pagan and sinful, even after having their conscience correctly informed, should not use them. For it is not right to sin against conscience. This is regrettable, however, since there is absolutely nothing wrong with using a Christmas tree. "

-----------------------------

http://users.rcn.com/tlclcms/jer10.html

[ted]

I don't think the origin of the X is important here. It may have been a symbol for Christians in the past but I feel that people and business's are using it now as a way to disassociate themselves with Christ. Taking the soft way in order not to offend any potential customer. It may have had legitimate uses in the past but not many people are aware of it. I know I wasn't until Sagz shed the light.

I reckon' I'll just continue to use "Christmas" when ever the subject is approached.

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY!

t.