Good information on 'Born Gay' Studies

[Floatingaxe]

Is there anywhere I can go to discuss believers and the dinosaurs?

Welcome to Worthy!!

Floating Axe, if ever there were such a thing, nice to make your virtual acquaintance. You didn't answer my question, so for now I suppose I shall join the discussion here instead.

Firstly, before I comment on the posts on this board I'd like to say that I'm sure (any) religion is a wonderful thing for those that feel it brings something positive into their lives and I am in no way here to cause conflict, merely to provide a new voice and ask some interesting questions. I am a gay man and an atheist and have been ever since I felt I had matured enough to be conscious of the concepts of sexuality and religion.

I personally think as an active member of the gay community that the arguement in favour of genetic make-up as the reason for sexual orientation is false and will never be proven. I do not see how something purely biological translates into determining ones behaviour. Homosexuality is in my opinion psychological, a behaviour, how one reacts to their own personal experiences, ones self awareness and environment. If the 'condition' were genetic surely we wouldn't have the stark polarisation of the majority of gays in the West, where attitudes tend to be more liberal, and very few in the East, where the attitudes are not quite so liberal. The 'gay gene' would be equally spread among us all would it not since essentially we are all descended from the same thing (be it an Adam and an Eve OR a chimp)?

Now that has been said I have a serious issue and one I would like to bring up here to ask the forum........I am regularly subject to animosity on the part of Christians regarding both my homosexuality and lack of belief in any god. What is the reason for this? Is it 'good Christian behaviour' to tell me that in their eyes that I am wrong with how I choose to live?

It seems absurd to me that even though I respect the way of life of others I am not afforded the same luxury. Is it perhaps a responsibility of theists to mould the attitudes of the minorities to be more in line with their own personal faiths? Why do these people do this? I am also questioned on my morality, however I see morality in much the same way as Wilde and Nietzsche did. That basically, if any morality even exists among us all it is 'merely the attitude one adopts to the people whom one dislikes'. So permit me to be polite to anybody who chooses to cause me offense in their reply and excuse them right now as I type.

It is unfortunate that as a result of all the mis treatment I've had from Christians (by my very own loose moral code of course) that I feel that Christianity in the West is falling behind the changing realities that a 2000 year old doctrine can no longer limit. Infact, it has only taken 100 years here in Europe for our world to have changed so much that religion is falling by the wayside in the daily lives of our populations. I am absolutely in favour of anything that provides happiness and contentment, it is as much as we can all hope for, but isn't it time that Christianity got with the times and allowed us all however different that opportunity? Now we are bound more by individual choices than collective following shouldn't it be explored?

So many questions!!!! So many (evidently) incoherent thoughts!!!! So late at night in England! It's a terribly passionate and intricate subject and I would really appreciate honest debate on any of the issues I've raised. As I've said I'm not here to cause offense, only to learn, I sincerely apologize if I've upset anybody with anything I've said.

Oh my! If Christianity got with the times as you suggest, we'd have apostasy like you are experiencing in Europe. Christians are the only sane bunch left, I think.

[Guest i might be an atheist]

Is there anywhere I can go to discuss believers and the dinosaurs?

Welcome to Worthy!!

Floating Axe, if ever there were such a thing, nice to make your virtual acquaintance. You didn't answer my question, so for now I suppose I shall join the discussion here instead.

Firstly, before I comment on the posts on this board I'd like to say that I'm sure (any) religion is a wonderful thing for those that feel it brings something positive into their lives and I am in no way here to cause conflict, merely to provide a new voice and ask some interesting questions. I am a gay man and an atheist and have been ever since I felt I had matured enough to be conscious of the concepts of sexuality and religion.

I personally think as an active member of the gay community that the arguement in favour of genetic make-up as the reason for sexual orientation is false and will never be proven. I do not see how something purely biological translates into determining ones behaviour. Homosexuality is in my opinion psychological, a behaviour, how one reacts to their own personal experiences, ones self awareness and environment. If the 'condition' were genetic surely we wouldn't have the stark polarisation of the majority of gays in the West, where attitudes tend to be more liberal, and very few in the East, where the attitudes are not quite so liberal. The 'gay gene' would be equally spread among us all would it not since essentially we are all descended from the same thing (be it an Adam and an Eve OR a chimp)?

Now that has been said I have a serious issue and one I would like to bring up here to ask the forum........I am regularly subject to animosity on the part of Christians regarding both my homosexuality and lack of belief in any god. What is the reason for this? Is it 'good Christian behaviour' to tell me that in their eyes that I am wrong with how I choose to live?

It seems absurd to me that even though I respect the way of life of others I am not afforded the same luxury. Is it perhaps a responsibility of theists to mould the attitudes of the minorities to be more in line with their own personal faiths? Why do these people do this? I am also questioned on my morality, however I see morality in much the same way as Wilde and Nietzsche did. That basically, if any morality even exists among us all it is 'merely the attitude one adopts to the people whom one dislikes'. So permit me to be polite to anybody who chooses to cause me offense in their reply and excuse them right now as I type.

It is unfortunate that as a result of all the mis treatment I've had from Christians (by my very own loose moral code of course) that I feel that Christianity in the West is falling behind the changing realities that a 2000 year old doctrine can no longer limit. Infact, it has only taken 100 years here in Europe for our world to have changed so much that religion is falling by the wayside in the daily lives of our populations. I am absolutely in favour of anything that provides happiness and contentment, it is as much as we can all hope for, but isn't it time that Christianity got with the times and allowed us all however different that opportunity? Now we are bound more by individual choices than collective following shouldn't it be explored?

So many questions!!!! So many (evidently) incoherent thoughts!!!! So late at night in England! It's a terribly passionate and intricate subject and I would really appreciate honest debate on any of the issues I've raised. As I've said I'm not here to cause offense, only to learn, I sincerely apologize if I've upset anybody with anything I've said.

Oh my! If Christianity got with the times as you suggest, we'd have apostasy like you are experiencing in Europe. Christians are the only sane bunch left, I think.

I wouldn't say that apostasy is a bad thing at all! I think we are all moving towards a better understanding of humanity instead of being spoon fed how to be by laws and rules that have less and less significance in a changing society. It's all very complicated and far too serious a discussion for any of us to even consider coming up with a sincere and valuable one answer methinks....

Still waiting on any replies to the questions I asked in previous post....Am I posting correctly for everyone to see or just for you axe? I am so young but still so uninitiated in the world of computers!

[Floatingaxe]

Is there anywhere I can go to discuss believers and the dinosaurs?

Welcome to Worthy!!

Floating Axe, if ever there were such a thing, nice to make your virtual acquaintance. You didn't answer my question, so for now I suppose I shall join the discussion here instead.

Firstly, before I comment on the posts on this board I'd like to say that I'm sure (any) religion is a wonderful thing for those that feel it brings something positive into their lives and I am in no way here to cause conflict, merely to provide a new voice and ask some interesting questions. I am a gay man and an atheist and have been ever since I felt I had matured enough to be conscious of the concepts of sexuality and religion.

I personally think as an active member of the gay community that the arguement in favour of genetic make-up as the reason for sexual orientation is false and will never be proven. I do not see how something purely biological translates into determining ones behaviour. Homosexuality is in my opinion psychological, a behaviour, how one reacts to their own personal experiences, ones self awareness and environment. If the 'condition' were genetic surely we wouldn't have the stark polarisation of the majority of gays in the West, where attitudes tend to be more liberal, and very few in the East, where the attitudes are not quite so liberal. The 'gay gene' would be equally spread among us all would it not since essentially we are all descended from the same thing (be it an Adam and an Eve OR a chimp)?

Now that has been said I have a serious issue and one I would like to bring up here to ask the forum........I am regularly subject to animosity on the part of Christians regarding both my homosexuality and lack of belief in any god. What is the reason for this? Is it 'good Christian behaviour' to tell me that in their eyes that I am wrong with how I choose to live?

It seems absurd to me that even though I respect the way of life of others I am not afforded the same luxury. Is it perhaps a responsibility of theists to mould the attitudes of the minorities to be more in line with their own personal faiths? Why do these people do this? I am also questioned on my morality, however I see morality in much the same way as Wilde and Nietzsche did. That basically, if any morality even exists among us all it is 'merely the attitude one adopts to the people whom one dislikes'. So permit me to be polite to anybody who chooses to cause me offense in their reply and excuse them right now as I type.

It is unfortunate that as a result of all the mis treatment I've had from Christians (by my very own loose moral code of course) that I feel that Christianity in the West is falling behind the changing realities that a 2000 year old doctrine can no longer limit. Infact, it has only taken 100 years here in Europe for our world to have changed so much that religion is falling by the wayside in the daily lives of our populations. I am absolutely in favour of anything that provides happiness and contentment, it is as much as we can all hope for, but isn't it time that Christianity got with the times and allowed us all however different that opportunity? Now we are bound more by individual choices than collective following shouldn't it be explored?

So many questions!!!! So many (evidently) incoherent thoughts!!!! So late at night in England! It's a terribly passionate and intricate subject and I would really appreciate honest debate on any of the issues I've raised. As I've said I'm not here to cause offense, only to learn, I sincerely apologize if I've upset anybody with anything I've said.

Oh my! If Christianity got with the times as you suggest, we'd have apostasy like you are experiencing in Europe. Christians are the only sane bunch left, I think.

I wouldn't say that apostasy is a bad thing at all! I think we are all moving towards a better understanding of humanity instead of being spoon fed how to be by laws and rules that have less and less significance in a changing society. It's all very complicated and far too serious a discussion for any of us to even consider coming up with a sincere and valuable one answer methinks....

Still waiting on any replies to the questions I asked in previous post....Am I posting correctly for everyone to see or just for you axe? I am so young but still so uninitiated in the world of computers!

Apostasy bad. God good.

Maybe just me right now! it's 12:17am Wednesday here! Hittin' the hay! Talk tomorrow!

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

It is unfortunate that as a result of all the mis treatment I've had from Christians (by my very own loose moral code of course) that I feel that Christianity in the West is falling behind the changing realities that a 2000 year old doctrine can no longer limit. Infact, it has only taken 100 years here in Europe for our world to have changed so much that religion is falling by the wayside in the daily lives of our populations.

IMBAA,

Has society and mankind really changed or are we just up to the ways we have always embraced?

God says that there is nothing new under the sun;

Ec

[Kansasdad]

[

I wouldn't say that apostasy is a bad thing at all! I think we are all moving towards a better understanding of humanity instead of being spoon fed how to be by laws and rules that have less and less significance in a changing society. It's all very complicated and far too serious a discussion for any of us to even consider coming up with a sincere and valuable one answer methinks....

Still waiting on any replies to the questions I asked in previous post....Am I posting correctly for everyone to see or just for you axe? I am so young but still so uninitiated in the world of computers!

i might, The problem is that you misunderstand the motivation. This is understandable because you are thinking from your own perspective. We all do this. From a Christian belief what happens on earth is not nearly as important as what happens after. We are talking about your eternal soul here. It is far more important to give you a message that has eternal consequences vs a message that is only concerned with the hear and now. If all that matters is the hear and now then by all means have your fun and don't worry about it. You do what you want and I will do what I want. As long as what you are doing doesn't hurt me, life is good. The problem is that this is a totally self centered existence. Christianity calls for you to be self sacrificing, something we humans don't do very well on our own. When a Christian talks to you about your behavior and tells you that it is a sin, they truly are very concerned for you personally. It is not a value statement, it is not, or at least it shouldn't be, a "I am better than you statement" It should be said with love and kindness not to humiliate you, but not sugared down either. What you are doing is a sin and if a person continues on such a path they are in active rebellion against God. God will allow you to separate yourself from him. When you die Gods allows your choice to stand. So do you really want to choose to be eternally separated from God. That is what Hell is. I know you don't believe this, but I do. And like it or not I do care about your eternal existence with God. God is calling you back, please pray and listen.

God Bless,

K.D.

[Joshua-777]

I wouldn't say that apostasy is a bad thing at all! I think we are all moving towards a better understanding of humanity instead of being spoon fed how to be by laws and rules that have less and less significance in a changing society. It's all very complicated and far too serious a discussion for any of us to even consider coming up with a sincere and valuable one answer methinks....

Still waiting on any replies to the questions I asked in previous post....Am I posting correctly for everyone to see or just for you axe? I am so young but still so uninitiated in the world of computers!

Ironic how much the scripture warns us of great apostasy in the last days, signs are falling into place, but people blind their selves to the reality.

Apostasy is bad, and it will always be a bad thing, If you think we are moving towards a better understanding of humanity, look around, humanity hasn't changed, we are all human, and we all fall into sin. A changing society has many negatives, as well as positives. The side to look at is which side is greater, With the rise of homosexuality in the west, you also face a rise of disease, and imorality. It is clear to all that we fit, man with woman, perverting this goes against the natural flow of nature.

I personally think as an active member of the gay community that the arguement in favour of genetic make-up as the reason for sexual orientation is false and will never be proven. I do not see how something purely biological translates into determining ones behaviour. Homosexuality is in my opinion psychological, a behaviour, how one reacts to their own personal experiences, ones self awareness and environment. If the 'condition' were genetic surely we wouldn't have the stark polarisation of the majority of gays in the West, where attitudes tend to be more liberal, and very few in the East, where the attitudes are not quite so liberal. The 'gay gene' would be equally spread among us all would it not since essentially we are all descended from the same thing (be it an Adam and an Eve OR a chimp)?

I believe that genetic make up will never be proven, and I fully agree with you on it psychological, a learned a behaviour, You bring up some good points here. It's a bondage, the Lord can set you free from this, his blood is your freedom, if you chose to be free.

Now that has been said I have a serious issue and one I would like to bring up here to ask the forum........I am regularly subject to animosity on the part of Christians regarding both my homosexuality and lack of belief in any god. What is the reason for this? Is it 'good Christian behaviour' to tell me that in their eyes that I am wrong with how I choose to live?

Actions should be done out of love, I will tell you that homosexuality is a sin, and you are wrong with chosing to live in that life style, But it's always your choice to accept it, the Lord Jesus isn't forced in someones heart, He's accepted in someones heart. You don't know Jesus, and I am not judging you, I can say what I know, sin is sin, it will not change, no matter how many fall into it, sin will always be sin. I will tell you the road of sin is death, Only in Jesus will you find life.

It seems absurd to me that even though I respect the way of life of others I am not afforded the same luxury. Is it perhaps a responsibility of theists to mould the attitudes of the minorities to be more in line with their own personal faiths? Why do these people do this? I am also questioned on my morality, however I see morality in much the same way as Wilde and Nietzsche did. That basically, if any morality even exists among us all it is 'merely the attitude one adopts to the people whom one dislikes'. So permit me to be polite to anybody who chooses to cause me offense in their reply and excuse them right now as I type.

Absurd? If someone hands you salvation and you refuse it, wouldn't that also be concidered absurd? Morality was layed fourth before the foundation of the world, the world perverts it, as you mentioned apostacy. Now, Morality isn't an adoption to whom one dislikes. If you see it as just that, then Child molestation would be concidered moral, rape would aswell. You can't take one branch without the whole tree with this, sin is sin, it connects. Morality is given from God, He set what he desires for us, we confuse it, and twist it. Sin will always be sin, no matter how many candy coated words are used to cover it, it's still sin.

t is unfortunate that as a result of all the mis treatment I've had from Christians (by my very own loose moral code of course) that I feel that Christianity in the West is falling behind the changing realities that a 2000 year old doctrine can no longer limit. Infact, it has only taken 100 years here in Europe for our world to have changed so much that religion is falling by the wayside in the daily lives of our populations. I am absolutely in favour of anything that provides happiness and contentment, it is as much as we can all hope for, but isn't it time that Christianity got with the times and allowed us all however different that opportunity? Now we are bound more by individual choices than collective following shouldn't it be explored?

A 2000 year old doctrine that is still standing, and the changing realitys against it, will fall on the corner stone, a stumbling block was placed. Whats interesting what is happening has already been said. You say that you are absolutly in favor of anything that provides happiness and contentment, even if it destroys? Can you say the same to a heroin junkie strung out while his kids are playing with matches? Christianity is Christ based, not political, Jesus is God and he is leading it, not man, I do not worship something I don't know, the Lord is very real, and his words will never change. The Lord set fourth his ways, it's our choice to follow them, the wicked will be punished. Not trying to use it as a scare tactic, but it is a reality. If the times Got with Christ, this world would be in better shape.

[Press Forward]

Romans 1 NIV

Romans 1 NIV

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator

[Joshua-777]

Romans 1 NIV

Romans 1 NIV

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator

[Guest LadyC]

the difference is a lack of desire to follow God's word and succomb to their own lusts.

sorry, i guess you meant for them to answer that question for themselves. somehow i doubt they'd have admitted the truth, though.

[artsylady]

Len, welcome to Worthy. Are you still around?