mortal or immortal soul ?

[Pilgrim7]

Just something to throw in the mix:

After being in the tomb for three days, not full days, but having been raised on the third day, Jesus tells Mary that He has not yet ascended to the Father. Why did He say that if He went to heaven that very day He died?

Joh 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.

20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

In the scripture the word 'today' can refer to either part of the sentence, Jesus could be telling him this today, or He could be saying that He would be with Him today. This is why we use other Scripture that clarifies the meaning of the some what indefinite ones.

Scripture says that Jesus will bring with Him 'those who sleep in Him' when He returns.

It can be quite dangerous to formulate doctrine over one verse of Scripture, some even do it with partial verses.

God Bless,

Dennis

[TomPJr]

I Corinth 15:50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

QUOTE

But Jesus Himself wasn't in Paradise that day, so this text doesn't prove immortality. Jesus was saying that He was telling him that day, not that he would be there that day. If we already have mortality, why are our decrepit dead bodies raised? Why bother with that? What would be the point?

Today means today! What a load.

Why can you not comprehend that our decayed remains resurrect and become one with our spirit again? Our spirits are alive always. The point is so that we can have physical bodies to do physical work, ruling and reigning in the New Earth.

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<

[Pilgrim7]

Another interesting verse:

Jam 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

5:20 Let him know, that he who converts the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Seems that James didn't understand the doctrine of the 'immortal soul' either. This 'doctrine' was brought in by the RCC. It was first hinted at by Origen around the year 200 AD, as he borrowed the idea from Plato. Later Augustine weighed in on the thought in His book the 'City of God'. Later in the 1200's, Thomas Aquinas crystalized the doctrine in his 'Summa Theologica'. The belief in the 'immortality of the soul' has always been a Pagan belief, which originated with Nimrod and Babylon shortly after the flood.

It was never believed or taught by any of the Apostles, but was part of the 'falling away' that Paul warned about in Thessalonians. Jesus never taught it for He was the only person on this earth who had inherent immortality. All receive it from Him as He dwells in them through the Spirit.

God Bless,

Dennis

Edited January 24, 2007 by Pilgrim7

[TomPJr]

Another interesting verse:

Jam 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

5:20 Let him know, that he who converts the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Seems that James didn't understand the doctrine of the 'immortal soul' either. This 'doctrine' was brought in by the RCC. It was first hinted at by Origen around the year 200 BC, as he borrowed the idea from Plato. Later Augustine weighed in on the thought in His book the 'City of God'. Later in the 1200's, Thomas Aquinas crystalized the doctrine in his 'Summa Theologica'. The belief in the 'immortality of the soul' has always been a Pagan belief, which originated with Nimrod and Babylon shortly after the flood.

It was never believed or taught by any of the Apostles, but was part of the 'falling away' that Paul warned about in Thessalonians. Jesus never taught it for He was the only person on this earth who had inherent immortality. All receive it from Him as He dwells in them through the Spirit.

God Bless,

Dennis

Great Post!

Heres some more...

1Ti 6:14 That thou keepe this commandement without spot, vnrebukeable, vntill the appearing of our Lord Iesus Christ.

1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed, and onely Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords:

1Ti 6:16 Who onely hath immortalitie, dwelling in the light, which no man can approch vnto, whom no man hath seene, nor can see: to whom be honour and power euerlasting. Amen.

[TomPJr]

Far more scriptures refer with certainty to ' mortal man ' than the few ambiguous ones people count on to believe in the immortal soul.

In the very beginning God said : for dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return Gen.3 v 19. This was said AFTER God had created Adam a ' living ' soul Gen.2 v 7 motivated / activated by a breath of air / wind. Therefore when we stop breathing we are de-activated and die, become lifeless.

Scripture says man was made a ' living soul ' through wind-power blown into us by God. Take that away and we are a ' dead soul ' an inactive Being. God only has immortality now 1Tim.6 v 16 .

Scripture says the soul (body) can die or be destroyed and return to dust, Job 34 v 15, Ez.18 v 4, 20. Mat.10 v 28. Gen.3 v 19. Mal.4 v 3. Obed.v 16. Job 33 describes a soul as a human being suffering human conditions.

What we find next is ' a spirit in man '. This spirit gives man awareness and comprehension, the ability to understand, Job 32 v 8. it is FORMED in man by God for that purpose - not to make us immortal. Zech.12 v 1. This human spirit is primarily to give man comprehension. By this spirit we can begin to understand God, to realize we need to be given HIS HOLY SPIRIT and until we get it we have not eternal life in us. Obedience to God is a requirement in order to get it Acts 5 v 32.

False beliefs do away with many scriptures relevant to salvation and burning eternally in hell-fire is one of them. It is sinful and wicked to believe such a thing of a merciful loving God who never had any such intention. People have assumed it because the wicked will share eternal hell-fire with evil spirits who can not die - but man being physical / material can and will die,if he has not repented when he had the chance. How could they become ashes under the feet of the Saints if they burned eternally ? Mal.4.

Awsome Post...

I agree 100%

I'm sure someone will say who are you to judge Gods will sinfull or wicked? or they'll say our spirits live on....

Our Spirit will return to God at our Death, but not as a consoius being, but simply as Gods Breath, or (Life Giving Force).

Spirit(Breath of Life) + Body(Dust) = Living Soul(Living Being or Creature)

If I Gave you a table, and you took out all the nails, you would no longer have a table....Where'd it go? You still have nails, and you still have a pile of wood, but the table ceases to exist.

It's the same for us...if the Spirit is seperated from the body, the living Soul ceases to exist and all is left is the lifeless corpse and the Spirit(Gods Life Giving Force) which goes back to God who gave it.

[Floatingaxe]

I Corinth 15:50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

QUOTE

But Jesus Himself wasn't in Paradise that day, so this text doesn't prove immortality. Jesus was saying that He was telling him that day, not that he would be there that day. If we already have mortality, why are our decrepit dead bodies raised? Why bother with that? What would be the point?

Today means today! What a load.

Why can you not comprehend that our decayed remains resurrect and become one with our spirit again? Our spirits are alive always. The point is so that we can have physical bodies to do physical work, ruling and reigning in the New Earth.

--------------------

<

[TomPJr]

I Corinth 15:50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

QUOTE

But Jesus Himself wasn't in Paradise that day, so this text doesn't prove immortality. Jesus was saying that He was telling him that day, not that he would be there that day. If we already have mortality, why are our decrepit dead bodies raised? Why bother with that? What would be the point?

Today means today! What a load.

Why can you not comprehend that our decayed remains resurrect and become one with our spirit again? Our spirits are alive always. The point is so that we can have physical bodies to do physical work, ruling and reigning in the New Earth.

--------------------

<

[Floatingaxe]

I Corinth 15:50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

QUOTE

But Jesus Himself wasn't in Paradise that day, so this text doesn't prove immortality. Jesus was saying that He was telling him that day, not that he would be there that day. If we already have mortality, why are our decrepit dead bodies raised? Why bother with that? What would be the point?

Today means today! What a load.

Why can you not comprehend that our decayed remains resurrect and become one with our spirit again? Our spirits are alive always. The point is so that we can have physical bodies to do physical work, ruling and reigning in the New Earth.

--------------------

<

[billie]

How is this thread still going on??

[Floatingaxe]

How is this thread still going on??

It's making a bid for immortality, billie!