Existance of God: Our imagination?

[Guest lindat1952]

While I don't exactly agree with the things said here. It may be on account I was not raised with any specific religion (My mother was brought up Catholic, converted Christian.And my father Jewish or the lack of any religion). However, what I do bring with me is the incredibly strong belief that Science takes power over the philosophy of man. Humans have been wrong more countless times. Science much less so. A few mistakes here and there (The crab for instance, which by the way didn't show up in Google, so I have a bit of a hard time believing) is no way to blacklist the scientific world that has given us our way of life. Science gives evidence and merit to both The Big Bang. And the String theory. (Eleven Dimensions). However, Christian beliefs (Mythical floods, imaginary arks, anything of that nature) has never been concluded, or even seriously theorized. A book written by several ancient priests, changed hundreds of times over the year, is no way in which to base our existence, purpose, or life.

This has unfortunately driven me to my current belief stance, which would be Agnostic, leaning Atheist. I do appreciate the help, but the posts I've seen look more like propaganda (Albeit it good natured) just taking its course after many years of suppressed stress, or religious teachings.

(Also, as a footnote, I attended a bible school when I was young. I found it as ridiculous then as I do now)

Hi,You know everyone is too work out their own salvation with fear and trembling .Religion has nothing to do with any of this it is all about Christ He stands at the door and knocks you either let him in or you do not.I have a hard time believing that you have had a real experience with Christ for you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.It does not matter what your parents believed the Lord says what are we but fools that we hang onto our fathers and fore fathers traditions.People can not convince you of the truth you have to seek and find.When you stand before god he is going to ask what have you done with what i have given you .You first need to seek his face and go into his presense.I can not nor can any man do this for you.It is not about who we are but about who He is.If we are having a hard time with the father then we have hardend our heart towards Him. you can not be driven to something you have to want to go there.ANOTHER THING BECAUSE THE fATHER IS LOVE THAT IS WHY HE NEVER FORCES US TO DO ANYTHING HE GIVES US FREEDOM OF CHOICE TO DO WHAT WE WANT ANYTHING OTHER THEN hIM TREAING US THIS WAY IS CONTROL NOT LOVE.Man has all these i deas that we live free and have the freedom of speach but do we because man wants to control there is no freedom in these things The only true freedom is done in love.I hope you look for yourself to find the answers for that is the only way the truth will come search and you shall find God Bless you Linda

[Joshua-777]

all I gotta say is, that, My imagination rocks if he is only in my imagination, he's provided everything I need, he's done so much for me, He's given me reason and purpose in life, He's revelead things in my life that have come to pass, he has humbled me when I step too far off of him, he corrects me, and edifys me, I have suffered more believing in him, than before he called me, But I also have overcome more.

[Guest Timbo]

Hi runner's high,

You said basically, that ' the greatest trick is for people to believe God exist if one looks for him through the churches '. Hence, you have recognized that it is no wonder that many fail to see the existence of God based upon what the churches have dispensed spiritually over the centuries. I too would be really a "nonbeliever" if all I had was what the churches have handed out, spiritual "crumbs" and hypocrisy.(Luke 16:19-21) The historical record of the churches has had such an impact upon the general populace that more and more are turning away from accepting that there is a God, or having a strong feeling of anguish, torn between their religious beliefs and the reports about the "church". Charles Caleb Colton, 19th-century English clergyman said: "Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it; anything but live for it."

Here are some snippets of the record of the churches of Christendom who "wrangle for religion...anything but live for it."

(1) One of the latest is the revelation of Ted Haggard, the president of the National Association of Evangelicals, an "umbrella group for more that 45,000 churches and some 30 million members across the country " of the U. S., who has admitted to "sexual immorality" and the buying of methamphetamines.

(2) On November 10 of this year, CNN News reported on a Roman Catholic nun in Rwanda, Africa, Theophister Mukakibibi, that was sentenced to 30 years in a "gacaca court...(for) helping (Hutu) militia kill hundreds of people (Tutsis) hiding in a hospital during Rwanda's 1994 genocide" between the Hutus and the Tutsis. In 2001, two Rwandan Catholic nuns were convicted by a Belgian court of aiding and abetting the mass murders. A Roman Catholic priest is on trial before Tanzania-based U.N. tribunal, accused of ordering the slaughter of 2,000 people who sought refuge in his church during the genocide.

(3) According to a report on November 21, CNN News reported that almost 4 out of 10 births are illegitimate in the US, and this in a country that has on it's coins "In God we trust".

(4) Two years ago, according to CNN News (as reported on July 12,2004) in Vienna, Austria, at the Catholic diocese of St. Poelten, "a vast cache of child pornography and photos of young priests having sex has been discovered at a Roman Catholic seminary". Bishop Kurt Krenn, 68, who oversaw the diocese, refused to step down, dismissing the images as a "childish prank". According to CNN, Bishop Krenn told Austrian television that he had seen photos of seminary leaders in sexual situations with students, but he described the images as part of an elaborate prank that "had nothing to do with homosexuality". As many as 40,000 photos and undisclosed number of films, including child pornography, were found there on computers at the seminary, the respected news magazine Profil reported. According to CNN, Profil "published several images purportedly showing young priests and their instructors kissing and fondling each other, and said others showed them engaging in orgies and sex games". Is Bishop Krenn's attitude following the moral guidelines that Jesus set at Matthew 5:32, avoiding all forms of "fornication"?(Greek por

[kat8585]

What the heck is facepalm?

[petanque]

Hi HC. Thanks for being so honest and forward thinking as to think that you should share your question and feelings with us.

I don't want to answer your question with a lot of quotes that in fact may be true but will only put you off or make you feel a lot more miserable that you do right now.

It's been a long time since I made the decision to follow after Jesus. The truth dawned on me when I was feeling quite low in my self. I had just had a terrific row with my parents and had walked out of the house and along the dark streets of my town. On the way I encountered a group of mixed age people taking turns in telling everyone what Jesus had done in their lives. I had no axe to grind with them in fact it was a change to allow my mind a rest from the thoughts that were going through my mind.

Suddenly I was tapped on my shoulder and a very elderly gentleman looked earnestly into my face said, "Son, do you KNOW Jesus Christ" I have emphasised the word know because that's how it came across to me.

HC, did you know that God Himself says "Seek ME and you shall find ME when you search for ME with all your heart"? Have you ever tried that HC? Please try that first before you decide on doing anything else. God is no liar, and doesn't bring false hope.

THANKS FOR ALLOWING ME TO WRITE TO YOU.

[Jesus Admirer]

I don

Edited February 14, 2007 by Jesus Admirer

[Orexis]

Evolutionist and Bio-Chemist Stanley Miller once tried to produce life from NonLife through laboratory expereiments, by creating the same conditions evolutionists believe how life started, but Dr. Miller's expereiments failed, because the first law of Biology says only life can produce life.

I have to disagree with that.

First of all, there's no such thing as First Law of Biology.

Second, Miller didn't fail.

The following in quotations I'm reading from a source as basic as the Wikipedia, where it clearly showed results:

"At the end of the week when they gathered the results, they found seven “spots” in the glass unit. The men easily identified three of the seven spots as glycine, the same as found in the previous trial, alpha-alanine, and beta alanine. Two of the others were identified as a-amino-n-butyric acid and a crystalline amino acid known as aspartic acid."

Some critics thought the aminoacids could have been created by already existing bacteria from any time the glass had been in contact with the atmosphere, so Miller made a second experiment:

"He did this be redoing the experiment. This time he heated the artificial atmosphere inside his specially designed glass unit long enough so that no bacteria could have possibly survived. It would have only taken about fifteen minutes for the heat to kill all of the bacteria that might have been in the unit but to be sure, Miller decided to leave it heated for eighteen hours. After Miller repeated the experiment, heating the unit in order to kill any bacteria that might have been present in the artificial atmosphere, he and several other scientists who had also repeated the same experiment, all got similar results."

There is one problem by which Miller's results prove nothing in the creation of Earth:

The components he used in creating this "replica" of the old Earth's atmosphere were arbitrary.

There was nothing in his times to prove that the Earth's atmosphere was the same as the atmosphere in his experiments, and by our contemporary times we know that Earth's atmosphere wasn't like that of his experiment.

This makes Miller's explanation of the origin of life on Earth obsolete, but he has proven that, given the right circumstances, life comes from non-life without any outside help.

Edited November 25, 2006 by Orexis

[Jesus Admirer]

No imagination! God answers my prayers. Let see if the evolutionists can get a puddle of primordial soup out of that.

Edited February 14, 2007 by Jesus Admirer

[Guest lindat1952]

Hi runner's high,

You said basically, that ' the greatest trick is for people to believe God exist if one looks for him through the churches '. Hence, you have recognized that it is no wonder that many fail to see the existence of God based upon what the churches have dispensed spiritually over the centuries. I too would be really a "nonbeliever" if all I had was what the churches have handed out, spiritual "crumbs" and hypocrisy.(Luke 16:19-21) The historical record of the churches has had such an impact upon the general populace that more and more are turning away from accepting that there is a God, or having a strong feeling of anguish, torn between their religious beliefs and the reports about the "church". Charles Caleb Colton, 19th-century English clergyman said: "Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it; anything but live for it."

Here are some snippets of the record of the churches of Christendom who "wrangle for religion...anything but live for it."

(1) One of the latest is the revelation of Ted Haggard, the president of the National Association of Evangelicals, an "umbrella group for more that 45,000 churches and some 30 million members across the country " of the U. S., who has admitted to "sexual immorality" and the buying of methamphetamines.

(2) On November 10 of this year, CNN News reported on a Roman Catholic nun in Rwanda, Africa, Theophister Mukakibibi, that was sentenced to 30 years in a "gacaca court...(for) helping (Hutu) militia kill hundreds of people (Tutsis) hiding in a hospital during Rwanda's 1994 genocide" between the Hutus and the Tutsis. In 2001, two Rwandan Catholic nuns were convicted by a Belgian court of aiding and abetting the mass murders. A Roman Catholic priest is on trial before Tanzania-based U.N. tribunal, accused of ordering the slaughter of 2,000 people who sought refuge in his church during the genocide.

(3) According to a report on November 21, CNN News reported that almost 4 out of 10 births are illegitimate in the US, and this in a country that has on it's coins "In God we trust".

(4) Two years ago, according to CNN News (as reported on July 12,2004) in Vienna, Austria, at the Catholic diocese of St. Poelten, "a vast cache of child pornography and photos of young priests having sex has been discovered at a Roman Catholic seminary". Bishop Kurt Krenn, 68, who oversaw the diocese, refused to step down, dismissing the images as a "childish prank". According to CNN, Bishop Krenn told Austrian television that he had seen photos of seminary leaders in sexual situations with students, but he described the images as part of an elaborate prank that "had nothing to do with homosexuality". As many as 40,000 photos and undisclosed number of films, including child pornography, were found there on computers at the seminary, the respected news magazine Profil reported. According to CNN, Profil "published several images purportedly showing young priests and their instructors kissing and fondling each other, and said others showed them engaging in orgies and sex games". Is Bishop Krenn's attitude following the moral guidelines that Jesus set at Matthew 5:32, avoiding all forms of "fornication"?(Greek por

[Orexis]

First: Your words(There's no such thing as the first law of Biology) I want you to know Biologist Dr. Gary Parker disgrees with you. Only life can produce life is something Bilology has always taught.

I can easily look for the three laws of Thermodynamics. Where can I look for the laws of Biology?

You see, Life only coming from Life is not possible until the theory of Life coming out of Non-Life is obsolete.

You cannot use this "law" to refute a theory, because if an alternate theory is there, then it's still not a law.

Third: His experimnts did fail! (Period!) He never did create live frim NonLife! (That mans he failed to create life as he hoped to.

Fourth: I never read the bias Wikipedia, because it doesn't give complete and accurate information and everything. I noticed that skeptics and atheist are big fans of Wikipedia. That's where they get all their incomplete and bias information from.

Allright, I'll give you two Christian sources that say Miller did create aminoacids:

1) http://www.darwinismrefuted.com/molecular_biology_09.html

2) The Book The Case For Faith by Lee Strobel, Objection #3, pages 95 and 96

Guess what both of them say about Miller; the same thing I say about him: That the atmosphere he created had no basis on Old Earth's atmosphere, but none of these sources disagree in that Miller's experiment did create aminoacids.