Questioning God? Think life is unfair?

[MeCajunboy]

The "qualities of the world" are the natural consequences of the fall of man. They are the result of the incurable human condition. So if anything determined to be "fair" or "unfair" it should be inherently flawed and subject to personal interpretation. For example, for someone to call God "evil" because he ordered the deaths of what are perceived as "innocents" should be erroneous, because he is subjecting God to his own standard of "fairness."

And that is exactly why I believe secular morality is more meaningful than theistic morality. Let's just say, hypothetically, God was one nasty dude. He created us, but he also enjoyed hurting us. But because this nasty God would determine "fairness", we could not call him nasty. Secular morality, on the other hand, sees acts as being moral and immoral based on their intentions or their effects, not the ex cathedra pronunciations of a creator God.

This, to me, is more honest than simply obeying (a book's claims about) a celestial dictator.

So let me understand you then. You're saying you don't appreciate someone telling you to LOVE all mankind? Or you prefer to steel what you want? Or you just enjoy having sex with anyone you choose and any time you choose? So if you're not about Love......what are you about. Or perhaps it is YOU who likes to be in CONTROL? Well, which is it.

Let me propose one final question to you High! Let's assume you were creator of your world and you were over the people who lived on your planet, and someone killed one of YOUR family members......What would you do with that person? Or let's just say you gave your people everything their heart were craving for, and they just hated you all the more......What would you do with those peoples?

[billie]

well first off I can ask you to prove that statement, which you obviously can't, so that was pretty unwise to say no?

Truth is never unwise.

[trailmix_101]

We serve an awesome God!! Isn't it just amazing to find rest and peace in Him... Whenever life seems to be rough and bumpy it's always so comforting to run to the Lord and hide under His wings like a little girl and just knowing that my Daddy can fix everything...

Glory to God!

It is always comforting to know that there is someone for us to go to when there is something wrong. Talking about things usually helps alot of people. Other people need to do other things to cope with whatever happened. But no one can fix everything. There is no one on this planet that can fix everything that has happened to someone or themselves. If God could do that then why do we have things like world hunger, disease, why do people get sick. I can understand that things like that can be fixed an I understand that we need things like disease cuz then we would over populate.

well first off I can ask you to prove that statement, which you obviously can't, so that was pretty unwise to say no?

secondly that wasn't my point.

is God NOT CURING someones cancer JUST AS BAD as God giving someone cancer.

simple no?

this actually want my original point either.

my original point is if God doesn't cure or help someone, do you guys, personally, hold God accountable AS IF HE HAD caused the problem in teh first place.

I agree with this...

Cancer isn't something you get from kissing someone! Cancer happens when cells that are not normal grow and spread very fast. Normal body cells grow and divide and know to stop growing. Over time, they also die. Unlike these normal cells, cancer cells just continue to grow and divide out of control and don't die. We can not control that kind of stuff. We are born with that disease. And if God can fix everything like you are stating then why do people die of this disease and why do some not?

My uncle just passed away two days ago due to Cancer of the Brain. Why couldn't God fix that and let him live? And if he were to have fixed it why did he?

[SaturnV]

With respect to God's goodness/justice, I was wondering what the take here on Leibniz' Theodicy would be. Leibniz basically states that without suffering, there would be no courage, and that the presence of courage is far better than its abscence. Therefore, God gave us a world that is the best possible combination of courage and suffering (i.e. the maximum amount of good with the minimum of evil).

I found the exchange between Voltaire and Rousseau in the aftermath of the 1755 Lisbon Earthquake a particularly interesting debate on the matter. It can be found here.

So is it possible that the world we live in is the "best of all possible worlds," as Leibniz claims?

[Joshua-777]

God doesn't give people cancer.

well first off I can ask you to prove that statement, which you obviously can't, so that was pretty unwise to say no?

secondly that wasn't my point.

is God NOT CURING someones cancer JUST AS BAD as God giving someone cancer.

simple no?

this actually want my original point either.

my original point is if God doesn't cure or help someone, do you guys, personally, hold God accountable AS IF HE HAD caused the problem in teh first place.

What I have witnessed, some God heals from cancer, some God doesn't, I am not skilled to understand, I know our God heals us, and I know that sometimes it's not in his will, but his plans are always for the better of us.

[trailmix_101]

What I have witnessed, some God heals from cancer, some God doesn't, I am not skilled to understand, I know our God heals us, and I know that sometimes it's not in his will, but his plans are always for the better of us.

I do believe that God does have the power to heal people its just whether he feels its right for us or whatever reason he may have. But as far as what he does being better for us? Im not so sure about that. Im not sure because my mother just passed away about 7 months ago now from a few things during a liver transplant. Why did God take her and not someone else? Why did he have to make it hard on my family and on me? I cant answer those right now but the hardest part in life is finding out why things happen, whats the reasoning behind them. Thats what I think.

But I do believe like I stated before God can heal people and he does have the decision not to.

[PBob]

Let us sit and reasn together says the Lord.... I have done this often and you know what God has NEVER slapped Himself beside the head and said, "PBob, now I understand why you...... From now on you are exempt from My law concerning that!"

Psalm 115:3 says, (..... and if you don;t like it or disagree it does NOT make any difference!)

New King James Version (NKJV)

3 But our God is in heaven;

He does whatever He pleases.

King James Version (KJV)

3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

New International Version (NIV)

3 Our God is in heaven;

he does whatever pleases him.

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

3 But our (A)God is in the heavens;

He (B)does whatever He pleases.

Amplified Bible (AMP)

3 But our God is in heaven; He does whatever He pleases.

What is it about "He does what He pleases, that you do not understand"

Look it all up for free in multiple versions of the Bible

http://www.biblegateway.com/

[Guest lnj]

We are to praise God and rejoice in ALL situations....Sounds impossible but I've seen it happen with one of my sisters'. She is a pillar of strength to me and she has had a tragedy happen ...her eldest son was killed in a car crash 3 years ago at the age of 21. She is a shattered woman but through this dark tunnel she and her family are going through, she has never blamed God and has continued Praising and remaining in His Joy. She inspires me with her unshakeable Faith and Trust. She is truly a woman after God's own Heart!

[~~ angelique ~~]

We are to praise God and rejoice in ALL situations....

It seems that you are saying that I should praise "God" for being raped? for being ritualitically abused? for being beaten? for being verbally abused? That is soooo wrong on so many levels..... And people wonder why I think God hates me??? If what you say is true, then did he "allow" those things so I can praise him????? HELLO~that just makes me sick to my stomach....

I have a friend who was raised in a Satanist family... They tortured her by putting her in a pit in the ground - overnight - and putting bugs in there to crawl all over her - and she sould praise God for this??????

[Grungekid]

The "qualities of the world" are the natural consequences of the fall of man. They are the result of the incurable human condition. So if anything determined to be "fair" or "unfair" it should be inherently flawed and subject to personal interpretation. For example, for someone to call God "evil" because he ordered the deaths of what are perceived as "innocents" should be erroneous, because he is subjecting God to his own standard of "fairness."

And that is exactly why I believe secular morality is more meaningful than theistic morality. Let's just say, hypothetically, God was one nasty dude. He created us, but he also enjoyed hurting us. But because this nasty God would determine "fairness", we could not call him nasty. Secular morality, on the other hand, sees acts as being moral and immoral based on their intentions or their effects, not the ex cathedra pronunciations of a creator God.

This, to me, is more honest than simply obeying (a book's claims about) a celestial dictator.

Are you joking?

An evil deity would mean that fairness didn't exist as we thought it did, and that what was coming our way was, indeed fair. Further, if there was such a deity, how would we be able to tell that it was cruel? We would have to have some higher quallity to base it on, which would be nonexistant.

Fortunately, the atheist doesn't believe in a deity at all, so he doesn't have to worry about it, now, does he? No. He'll do whatever the hell he feels is right, no matter what anyone tells him.

Look, seculars don't have morals. They don't exist. Nothing and noone instituted them, other than people just as morally clueless as ourselves, who completely made them up. If we follow morals, we risk following some person's idea of good. And we can never have much faith in that, because we KNOW for a fact there are cruel people, and that they are fallible. All of this is moot, anyway, because things we can't see or prove with science don't exist, so neither are our precious morals. Honestly, of all the crazy ideas you people come up with. Theism is infinitely more reasonable and purposeful morally than the secular system could ever hope to be. Virtue theory is even better, but unfortunately it doesn't really work without some kind of reason to follow virtues, anyway, and there really isn't any from an atheist perspective. I suggest you stop reading atheist books and start thinking about it, yourself.