Confused

[Smalcald]

Thanks Fiosh.

I think that is a great starting point. I would say that if a group did not accept those statements, that indeed you would have to say that they have left the faith.

[Iryssa]

We do the Apostle's Creed almost every Sunday, and the Nicene on communion Sundays (which happen roughly once a moth, since we share an ordained minister with a couple other churches)...I've finally got the Apostle's Creed memorized, and the Nicene is next on my list.

[Floatingaxe]

For example:

1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them," allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

Baptism is not for infants, but for the believer. Infants do not believe, but are considered "under the blood" and they have a home in heaven with Jesus.

Where is that in the Bible????

Everywhere where baptism is mentioned! There is not one scripture that talks about children or babies being baptized. Baptism is for those who believe, plain and simple. So, once one comes to belief in Christ, they are to be baptized. A young child or infant cannot do that, not does God require it. For example:

Acts 2:38

Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

[Floatingaxe]

There are definately similarities in the liturgy of the Catholic Church and Episcopal Church that I attend but one thing I can't get over- Catholics believe that Mary remained a virgin but this view is not biblical (the bible doesn't say) - does this view come from an Augustinian view of sexuality? It just seems to make sex something that is bad - Is this why priests and nuns are not allowed to marry?

Peace be with you

The Catholic Church teaches that sex is a beautiful expression of love between a husband and wife---not something "bad".

The perpetual virginity of Mary is based in Scripture.

For example:

Luke 2: 41-51 at age 12, evidently Jesus is the only son of Mary

Mark 6:3 Jesus is called the son of Mary; not a son of Mary

*****************************************************

Mt 27: 56 Mary the mother of James and Joseph

is also

John 19: 25 Mary the wife of Clopas

So James and Joseph are not brothers of Jesus

****************************************************

John 19: 26

Jesus entrusts his mother to John---why not a sibling???

Peace,

Fiosh

Matthew 12...

46 As Jesus was speaking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him. 47 Someone told Jesus,

[Fiosh]

There are definately similarities in the liturgy of the Catholic Church and Episcopal Church that I attend but one thing I can't get over- Catholics believe that Mary remained a virgin but this view is not biblical (the bible doesn't say) - does this view come from an Augustinian view of sexuality? It just seems to make sex something that is bad - Is this why priests and nuns are not allowed to marry?

Peace be with you

The Catholic Church teaches that sex is a beautiful expression of love between a husband and wife---not something "bad".

The perpetual virginity of Mary is based in Scripture.

For example:

Luke 2: 41-51 at age 12, evidently Jesus is the only son of Mary

Mark 6:3 Jesus is called the son of Mary; not a son of Mary

*****************************************************

Mt 27: 56 Mary the mother of James and Joseph

is also

John 19: 25 Mary the wife of Clopas

So James and Joseph are not brothers of Jesus

****************************************************

John 19: 26

Jesus entrusts his mother to John---why not a sibling???

Peace,

Fiosh

Matthew 12...

46 As Jesus was speaking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him. 47 Someone told Jesus,

[Fiosh]

For example:

1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them," allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

Baptism is not for infants, but for the believer. Infants do not believe, but are considered "under the blood" and they have a home in heaven with Jesus.

Where is that in the Bible????

Everywhere where baptism is mentioned! There is not one scripture that talks about children or babies being baptized. Baptism is for those who believe, plain and simple. So, once one comes to belief in Christ, they are to be baptized. A young child or infant cannot do that, not does God require it. For example:

Acts 2:38

Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Actually NOWHERE in Scripture does it state infants cannot be baptized. And, several times the Bible talks of entire households being baptized with no limitation on age:

Acts 16:33

He took them in at that hour of the night and bathed their wounds; then he and all his family were baptized at once.

Acts 16:14-15

14One of them, a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth, from the city of Thyatira, a worshiper of God, 5 listened, and the Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what Paul was saying.

15

After she and her household had been baptized,

I Cor 1:16

(I baptized the household of Stephanas also;

and....baptism is said to replace circumcision, which was done to babies on the eighth day of life

Colossians 2:11-13

In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not administered by hand, by stripping off the carnal body, with the circumcision of Christ.

12

You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

13

And even when you were dead (in) transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he brought you to life along with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions;

You are simply giving YOUR interpretation of Scripture, not Scripture itself.

Peace,

Fiosh

[Floatingaxe]

For example:

1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them," allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

Baptism is not for infants, but for the believer. Infants do not believe, but are considered "under the blood" and they have a home in heaven with Jesus.

Where is that in the Bible????

Everywhere where baptism is mentioned! There is not one scripture that talks about children or babies being baptized. Baptism is for those who believe, plain and simple. So, once one comes to belief in Christ, they are to be baptized. A young child or infant cannot do that, not does God require it. For example:

Acts 2:38

Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Actually NOWHERE in Scripture does it state infants cannot be baptized. And, several times the Bible talks of entire households being baptized with no limitation on age:

Acts 16:33

He took them in at that hour of the night and bathed their wounds; then he and all his family were baptized at once.

Acts 16:14-15

14One of them, a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth, from the city of Thyatira, a worshiper of God, 5 listened, and the Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what Paul was saying.

15

After she and her household had been baptized,

I Cor 1:16

(I baptized the household of Stephanas also;

and....baptism is said to replace circumcision, which was done to babies on the eighth day of life

Colossians 2:11-13

In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not administered by hand, by stripping off the carnal body, with the circumcision of Christ.

12

You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

13

And even when you were dead (in) transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he brought you to life along with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions;

You are simply giving YOUR interpretation of Scripture, not Scripture itself.

Peace,

Fiosh

Fiosh, dear, baptism is only for the believer. You first repent and then become baptized. how does a baby repent? How does a young child who is yet unable to understand their sinfulness to repent? Baptism is only for the believer! That is the only context it is presented in.

[Fiosh]

Hi floatingaxe,

I'm still waiting for you to show me where you find this in Scripture:

Infants do not believe, but are considered "under the blood" and they have a home in heaven with Jesus.

Thanks,

F

[Leonard]

A baby "can't understand its sinfulness"? Floatingaxe, you are presupposing we are saved in our brains. We are not. We are saved in our spirits. How do you know what a baby's spirit can and cannot understand?

Further, under the Old Covenant, the PARENTS decided whether the child was to be circumcized, and enter the covenant. THE BABY DIDN'T MAKE THE CHOICE, the parents did! The New Testament likens Baptism to Circumcision. The same New Testament says that today we 'have a better covenant."

If we can't even include our children under our covenant, how can we claim it is even EQUAL to the Old Covenant, much less better????

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

There is a thread for those who adhere to the Catholic Doctrine to explain their Religion.

That is not the purpose and point of this Ministry though.

Peace,

Dave