The fall of Man

[reconditioned]

I see a lot of Christians sum up all of the world's problems as the fault of mankind. ABout how in the Garden we rejected God and caused all of this trouble. People have all got these funny feelings of guilt and badness.

Well, you know something, Adam rejected God, I didn't. And who invented mankind capable of being corrupted in the first place? Who invented the garden itself or the world. Who made a universe at all. Why should I or any of you feel guilty for something that has nothing to do with us. Adam and Eve screwed up. I'm not even sure that its entirely their fault anyway. If they had no knowledge of good and evil how would they have fully understood the magnitude of disobeying God?

I think humanity is the victim in thist nonsense. We didn't make ourselves the way we are. Most of us if given the choice between having never been born or living against God would have chosen to have never been born. So why are we? To be blamed for the sins and mistakes of people so far removed from history and humanity that there's no real connection between us and them?

Humanity should never have had to be blamed for being the way it was in the first place. None of us were ever given the choice of right or wrong. We just got death and condemnation heaped upon us. And now I see God's so called people not only living in guilty over being what I consider a wrongful conviction, but most of us all have bad problems too. I meant the kind where in a world of the worst spiritual problems we're built so crappily that a mans spirit being snaps like a twig against the least of God's enemies or troubles.

By the way, humanity didn't make Lucifer the way he is either. In fact I can see no connection between us and him. I think that its in support of my argument that something was inherently flawed before man even existed.

I hate the law and I think you all should to. The last thing you should be doing is feeling bad. Its not like Gois doing any of you any favors anyway. So he's nice to you, are you indebted to him for life for doing something a good parent should do? It's bad when the abuse of life is so horrible that a person will feel the way you people do over something as little as basic kindness. You're being cheated and you all deserve much better.

[Zceiv]

let me be the first to say.

you are completely wrong. you would have rejected god as would I

And the next point

it doesnt matter what you think. when the bible says something it does not matter what you or anyone else think is fair and not fair.

you are not the judge god is.

and please do not say we deserve better.

Im saved throught jesus and there is nothing better

Edited January 1, 2007 by Zeiv

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

To be blamed for the sins and mistakes of people so far removed from history and humanity that there's no real connection between us and them?

Your not blamed for their mistakes. Your Judged on your own failures.

However I fear for you brother that you are feeling condemned. You said most Christians live in guilt and this is just not true. Guilt comes forth from your conscience mind and it is a result of your own sin.

However God has set you free from this. Any pangs of guilt you might be feeling are just that, pangs of guilt. Go to the Lord and allow Him to renew your heart and mind.

The Christian has Gods Grace and can rise above this.

Listen to the Word of God;

Ro

[reconditioned]

I do need him to fix some things. I spent all my life feeling so much guilt for things that weren't my fault that now I can't feel guilt over almost anything. Why should I. I see guilt as a tool of oppression, which makes me suspicious that something God created would have it.

I feel condemned because Gods words indicate that people like me aren't his, I also don't trust him. I wasn't forgiven by many early in life, I mean they said they did if I screwed up but that didn't stop me from having to pay retribution.

Thats just the thing, I can't see me not being blamed if when I was born I had to be forgiven. I'm also used to being set up. And a no win situation like life does look like a set up. And a God that keeps his own children under his control by threats intimidation and guilt trip looks like my makers in this world.

As such I hate seeing christians of all people acting the way that they do.

[salos]

Reconditioned, I had the same questions and issues. One thing is that we do not know what God asks of us. His way of thinking is different from ours. We think more in terms of outward behavior, but God thinks more about heart attitude.

Zephaniah 1:4a, 6: " I will stretch out my hand against ... those who turn back from following the LORD and neither seek the LORD nor inquire of him."

Can you or I say we have always sought the Lord, that we've always inquired of Him? No. So God is justified in saying we have a problem.

[Leonard]

Righteousness is better than innocence. If you think about this, it is the answer to all the questions you've got 'Reconditioned.'

[AnotherTraveler]

I do need him to fix some things. I spent all my life feeling so much guilt for things that weren't my fault that now I can't feel guilt over almost anything. Why should I. I see guilt as a tool of oppression, which makes me suspicious that something God created would have it.

I feel condemned because Gods words indicate that people like me aren't his, I also don't trust him. I wasn't forgiven by many early in life, I mean they said they did if I screwed up but that didn't stop me from having to pay retribution.

Thats just the thing, I can't see me not being blamed if when I was born I had to be forgiven. I'm also used to being set up. And a no win situation like life does look like a set up. And a God that keeps his own children under his control by threats intimidation and guilt trip looks like my makers in this world.

As such I hate seeing christians of all people acting the way that they do.

Your feeling condemnation yet not feeling guilt is a result of not taking personal responsibility for your own actions. When we blame others (God and Christians and the people that set you up) we miss the whole point of self will in our own life and our own choices. Being forgiven does not necessarily prevent the results of our actions.

If we burn down the house, and ask forgiveness, and receive forgiveness, is the house still burnt down? If we are forgiven, but now we are not trusted with matches, is this unforgiveness or are those that know us trying to prevent another fire?

When trust has been violated, there must of necessity be a period of observed behaviour that confirms that we are not going to betray trust again. If we blame God for making people that made matches that burned the house, we are really not addressing the right issues, are we? Responsibility is responding according to our ability. Your writing shows that you can reason things out, so use that ability.

If you reap what you sow, and if you condemn God with your writings, what will the result be?

If you decide to forgive others (God included) you will be forgiven. (with God this is right now, with mankind the process is a little longer). Turn from doing evil, and do good, not words only, but deeds.

[Floatingaxe]

Righteousness is better than innocence. If you think about this, it is the answer to all the questions you've got 'Reconditioned.'

Couldn't be better put!

[reconditioned]

My guilt is the feeling that someone a lot stronger than me may or may not decide to afflict me for reasons that I cannot comprehend.

Its based on personal experience though, to this day God has yet to cause me harm. But still, its there and no one should play the blame game with another human being Christians too often do, where something is someone elses fault. Like its mine for feeling paranoid aroung God. Or that I was guilty in the past for my mistakes. you don't know that. Yet you say I'm at fault for not taking the responsibility for what I should have.

I'll have you know, I took the blame for many things in my life, for other people. I never realized until too late that I was used and manipulated. I'm free of the lies and imposed guilt now. Yet you as a christian claim that it was ligitimate, at least thats what you're implying by saying I should take responsibility for anything.

I know some of you are God's people. But you ones who act as if you knew me when you don't and imply I'm at fault without knowledge of my reasons act like Satan. His kind was always accusing me. Mostly for things I had nothing to do with. Like you just did. If its an accident though I won't hold it against you.

I justs worry that I see so called Christians prone to this behavior.

[Candi770]

recondition,

please read this article; maybe it will help:

Dominion: who caused all the trouble? Why is the world in such a mess?

God, really doesn't want his children to suffer, call out to him in your distress and try him, He is good and his mercy endureth forever.

blessings

candi