creation

[artsylady]

The problem is, so far, every time I have seen debates between what is called Young Earth Creationists and those who support the mainstream view, all the main stream supporter has to say is, "Go to the Talk Origins web site and show me one thing in there that is incorrect," and the YEC's goose is cooked. I have yet to see anyone take the challenge and suceed. If you believe you can do so, please do. I would love to see it!

(And I mean that sincerely.)

I do believe you mean it sincerley, because you are a Christian. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't even be here. I used to debate a lot. For two years and I saw a lot of stuff from Talk Origins. As soon as you ask any of them a question, they'd point to it. It was like the athiest's bible. I just don't remember seeing anything that was 100 percent right on anything. I could always go and find an alternate, and usually more believable explanation through creationism. It's so close to Christmas and I just don't have time to go searching for anything right now, but maybe in the new year?

[nebula]

And astronomers. That's a science.

Well, "astronomy" back then was more "astrology" than actual science. Even Aristotle wasn't a real scientist but rather a philosopher. Science makes observations and iterpretations based on what was observed, while aristotle had a philosophy and used the natural world to back it up - which is why all his scientific theories were later found to be wrong.

My main point, just because the majority of scientists believe evolution to be correct, doesn't mean it is.  God's word should supercede the minds of men. 

They've been wrong on so many things and have had to change the dates so many times, the only thing truly evolving is the theory of evolution itself.

I can appreciate what you are saying, but unfortunately, you can't use this argument to prove anything. It only comes across as an excuse to believe whatever you want to believe.

And I still don't believe the Bible was written from a scientific standpoint, which makes it a bit more neutral on the physical process that occured (as in how the atos were created adn came together and what process kicked off another process and all of that). Hey, if God created woman from the man's rib, might He have also used "parts" from one animal to create another? You know?

[artsylady]

God's word should supercede the minds of men.

I can appreciate what you are saying, but unfortunately, you can't use this argument to prove anything. It only comes across as an excuse to believe whatever you want to believe.

It's not whatever I want to believe. I simply beleive God's word is the ultimate truth. I think Genesis makes it very clear on what was meant by a 'day'.

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15  And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16  And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17  And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18  And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19  And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

And I still don't believe the Bible was written from a scientific standpoint, which makes it a bit more neutral on the physical process that occured (as in how the atos were created adn came together and what process kicked off another process and all of that).

I also don't believe the Bible was written as a science book but it does contain truths that are scientific in nature. I had a copy of a list of scientific truths that were not understood until even modern times. I'll try to find this for you too. Again, maybe in the new year. I just want to have fun on the boards right now, given the season and I'm sooooo busy too. I'm in hurry-up-so-I-can-relax mode right now.

Hey, if God created woman from the man's rib, might He have also used "parts" from one animal to create another? You know?

But the above is not how evolution tells the story anyway.

Do you believe in the Gap theory?

[artsylady]

http://100777.com/node/view/534

Here's a pretty good site regarding scientific truths found in the Bible, although I know of one that is missing regarding washing of hands under running water for sanitation purposes (didn't see this one listed) but this wasn't discovered until a century or two ago and mentioned in the Old Testament.

[artsylady]

I'm actually debating (slowly) with an athiest who points to talk origins on the Apologetics catagory.

I'm not posting very often though - just once every three or four days, due to lack of time and lack of enthusiasm. The guy says he's open to belief in God, but I'm having a hard time believing him.

Anyway, the thread is called.

Does God Beleive in Athiesm. (i didn't start it but found myself there.)

[nebula]

Hey!

Unfortunately, the link you posted isn't downloading on the computer I'm on.

I hope you understand that what I am trying to say is that these arguments are not going to get you anywhere with non-Christians. Been there, done that, failed and failed and failed, and watched others fail and fail and fail.

AIG scientists may look well and versed to you, but to non-Christians, their arguments fail in so many ways. As I have mentioned, I have seen this doen time and time again. You can say, but look at the scientific truths found in the Bible! Yes, the whole handful of them!

As I mentioned before, presenting "scientific truths" was not the point of what is written in the text. For instance, the laws of sanitation had nothing to do with understanding or studying bacteria! They were for spiritual purposes, as it is written. Likewise, a scientist, whether a believer in God or not, who digs up a fossil won't find information about that fossil in the Bible. Those who found them said, "What is this? Where did it come from? How did it get there?" For every theory that is proposed, they ask, "What evidence is there to support the claim?"

It is not enough to say, "Well, the Bible mentions six days and it mentions the Flood. All the answers you need to know are in that." No, that tells me nothing. Case in point - how was the Grand Canyon formed - provide me with Biblical references only? How were the Appalachian and Rocky Mountains formed - again, provide me with Biblical references only to answer? God created the Sun and the stars. OK, fine - but then what are nebulas and supernovas if not the birth and death of stars? How are these things explained in the Bible? How do you explain the observations of galaxies in process or after-effect of collisions?

There are people who use the Bible to prove that the Sun circles the Earth even still - because that is what the Bible says. Unfortunately, there is not a thread of evidence to support this claim, especially now with the space satellites and probes and telescopes we have to observe the solar system. If the Sun circled the Earth, these things would have shown it, and they do not.

We just can't put 20th/21st century interpretations on a collection of documents written thousands of years ago. Imagine someone from China 2000-5000 years from now trying to interpret and make meaning out of something written today from America. ("And it was raining cats and dogs.")

I don't mean to say the Bible is wrong. I just have found that we need to see it for what the people for whom the revelation was given saw it.

[His son]

I don't mean to say the Bible is wrong. I just have found that we need to see it for what the people for whom the revelation was given saw it.

We need to see The Bible for what it truly is, The Engrafted Word of God, Written by The Holy spirit, and the only Truth there is in This universe, and only interpretable by The Holy Spirit.

[nebula]

Ecclesiastes 11:5 - " As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit*, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all." (KJV)

Ecclesiastes 11:5 - "As you do not know the path of the wind*,

or how the body is formed in a mother's womb,

so you cannot understand the work of God,

the Maker of all things." (NIV)

* Ruwach - wind, breath, mind, spirit

I do not know what is meant by "the way of the spirit" or "the path of the wind," whichever is the better translation, but the wind most certainly is not much of a mystery anymore - meteorology 101.

"How the bones grow [or "the body is formed"] in the womb" is not much of a mystery anymore either. Learning bone formation and bone growth is a standard part of Anatomy and Physiology class (I know, I had to memeorize it!). Basic fetal development is a part of the Biology 101 curriculum. Sure, not all mysteries are solved, but more and more of them are being solved every year as we better understand genetics and such.

So, if an athiest were to point this verse out to you and say, "This verse is invalid," for the above reasons, what would you say?

[other one]

I find our discussions of creationism to be rather fascinating to read. We believers, who have studied the sciences, want to put Gods actions within our knowledge base and know how things were done. When what we

[Brad]

Shalom All !!

I thought id bring this question to the boards to see if and how many different responces I would get.. ready here goes! :t:

When God created the Heavens and the Earth in 6 days,was it a thousand years for each day as in 2 Peter 3:8, a day is as a thousand yrs, or was it a 24 hour period,?

Hi Butterfly

All I can say is that the first four days could have being much loger than 24 hours. God didn't regulate the days until the forth day and He might have taken 4 thousand of our years to do that. The 5 & 6 day had 24 hours, then on the seventh day 24 hour day God entered into rest and that could have been a longer time then just one day. I believe God was hoping for a continued rest but Adam and Eve sinned so God had to go back to work and sacifric a lamb for us that pointed to Jesus dying on the cross.