Creed

[Floatingaxe]

That poem was written by a CHRISTIAN.

It is a SATIRE of atheist views.

...

You might have considered making that clear when you posted this thread.

Ummm, Do you think it was written by a Christian and is a satire of atheist views?

[nebula]

And I noticed that the person who started this thread, keeps saying that he did this because Christians get made fun of all over the web and this justifies his ridiculous creed. First of all, why post it here? Go post it where Christians are being made fun of. Noone makes fun of Christians here, and if they do they get immedietly banned (and rightfully so). And I don't believe two wrongs make a right either.

Systemstrike - I am a "she." So, can I get mad at you now for slandering me? (Calm down, I'm just teasing! Lighten up, bro!)

But seriously, what do you believe God thinks and feels about Atheism? And how in Scripture has God treated other beliefs?

[Kansasdad]

Wow ember, no wonder I never heard him say that.

It was 37 years ago when he was a music DJ named Jeff Christie.

Thank you for the snopes link.

(This incident occurred not on Rush Limbaugh's now-familiar talk and political commentary radio program, but at the beginning of his broadcast career back in the early 1970s when he was hosting a Top 40 music show under the name "Jeff Christie" on either WIXZ or KQV in Pittsburgh.snopes

Sheesh! That happened decades ago!

Well, Rush Limbaugh is not a Christian, but this is what I mean, [i said in another thread that I think was removed]. Those that oppose Christ tend to blow mistakes made by Christians out of proportion, or keep bringing them up, decades or millennium later, to discredit God. It's just an excuse. Everyone makes mistakes. Christian mistakes only prove that we are human and not perfect, nor do we ever claim to be. There is a huge difference between being a true Christian, and claiming to be one. That difference is not defined by our actions, rather by our relationship with the Lord.

Hmmm you mean like the crusades, or When the "Catholics" were killing protestants, or when the "Protestants" were killing Catholics, or when the Jews were killing Christians. Just pointing out that WE Christians tend to do the same thing when it is to our advantage.

[Kansasdad]

Grace to you,

We may not be perfect, but we are supposed to strive to be Christ-like, I'm pretty sure I remember some passage saying something like that.

HMMM?

Burning Ember,

Didn't you just say a page back that you didn't have to be Obedient to God and listen to Him when He said to do Good. Rather you chose to do Good yourself.

Yet I seem to remember God saying something about Himself doing nothing apart from His Father, He was perfectly Obedient.

... I'm confused as to where the conflict is.

Situation A: A Christian is told by God to do good works. They donate their time/money to a charity, and a few homeless people go to bed with a full stomach.

Situation B: A Christian/Atheist/Agnostic/Follower of another Religion believe that it is the right thing to/feel the urge to do good works. They donate their time/money to a Charity, and a few homeless people go to bed with a full stomach.

The end result is the same.

While I agree that Christians are not perfect, but forgiven, that should not be used as an excuse, so to speak.

So your excuse for not being Obedient and doing your own works is what?

So wait, you're saying that even though I want to do good things on my own, without needing God to tell me that, I should do them because God tells me to? Am I doing something wrong because I feel like doing good things? Somehow, I don't think so.

And as for the answer to your question... I didn't exactly grow up being able to rely on God. Or others. At school I would go there and get bullied around, I would come home to deal with... Less than forgiving parents. Friends helped out, but for a long time I could only really rely on myself. Granted the situation is somewhat different now, and things have changed, but I developed a strong moral code from being bullied around. If people are going to be selfish, hurt others, look down on them for not being like them, fine. If someone is violent, racist, hateful, then they are. But it does not make them a good person.

It leads to the general detriment of society, it causes pain in others, it causes (for lack of a better word) decay.

Hate, anger, and the wrathful conflicts of that nature can only destroy and tear down what good things like love, friendship, and compassion have created and bonded. Doing good things is obviously the better choice for the future of of any society, and its people.

Actually what you are promoting is a atheistic view. The difference is that you are "doing good" for a self serving reason. The result for the recipient might be the same, but the result for you is very different. The idea of selfless acts is very difficult. By your definition if there is no self serving return for doing good then there will be no motivation to do so. Even if this self-serving return is the "warm fuzzy' if that is the motivation then it can be and is fleeting. It is defined by the giver. Thus doing good is motivated by only if there is a self reward of some kind. Now having said that, all good deeds have a "self reward" as an intrinsic part of the deed. However the difference is whether that is the only motivation. The challenge we have as Christians is that our motivation is to be for God and not self serving. We often fail this challenge, but we strive none the less.

God Bless,

K.D.

[georgesbluegirl]

What about compassion? I don't think it's fair to say that acts of good are ONLY either self-serving or serving God. Anybody - Christian, Buddhist, atheist, Hindu, polytheist - can experience and act upon compassion. The compassionate response, especially the immediate one, is pre-reflexive, and doesn't have to involve calculation of its benefits to the self.

[Kansasdad]

What about compassion? I don't think it's fair to say that acts of good are ONLY either self-serving or serving God. Anybody - Christian, Buddhist, atheist, Hindu, polytheist - can experience and act upon compassion. The compassionate response, especially the immediate one, is pre-reflexive, and doesn't have to involve calculation of its benefits to the self.

I don't think that is what I said. At least it is not what I meant to say. I don't think it is has to be an either thing. In fact I think compassion for example will have a positive effect on the giver and so intrinsically it is self serving. However if that is the only motivation for being compassionate then what happens when that compassion is self sacrificing. Let me put it this way. If the motivation is, I am compassionate because it feels like the right thing for me, what happens when it doesn't feel like the right thing, do we stop being compassionate. I don't think it is a calculation of its benefits, it is far too subtle for that. Rather it is a learned effect evaluated over time and effort. Eventually there is no truth only perception. Take, for example, helping a 13 year old rape victim get an abortion. On a self serving evaluation, one can justify this as being a good act. On Gods evaluation it never is.

God Bless,

Kansas Dad

[Guest blessedinpdx]

Grace to you,

We may not be perfect, but we are supposed to strive to be Christ-like, I'm pretty sure I remember some passage saying something like that.

HMMM?

Burning Ember,

Didn't you just say a page back that you didn't have to be Obedient to God and listen to Him when He said to do Good. Rather you chose to do Good yourself.

Yet I seem to remember God saying something about Himself doing nothing apart from His Father, He was perfectly Obedient.

... I'm confused as to where the conflict is.

Situation A: A Christian is told by God to do good works. They donate their time/money to a charity, and a few homeless people go to bed with a full stomach.

Situation B: A Christian/Atheist/Agnostic/Follower of another Religion believe that it is the right thing to/feel the urge to do good works. They donate their time/money to a Charity, and a few homeless people go to bed with a full stomach.

The end result is the same.

While I agree that Christians are not perfect, but forgiven, that should not be used as an excuse, so to speak.

So your excuse for not being Obedient and doing your own works is what?

So wait, you're saying that even though I want to do good things on my own, without needing God to tell me that, I should do them because God tells me to? Am I doing something wrong because I feel like doing good things? Somehow, I don't think so.

And as for the answer to your question... I didn't exactly grow up being able to rely on God. Or others. At school I would go there and get bullied around, I would come home to deal with... Less than forgiving parents. Friends helped out, but for a long time I could only really rely on myself. Granted the situation is somewhat different now, and things have changed, but I developed a strong moral code from being bullied around. If people are going to be selfish, hurt others, look down on them for not being like them, fine. If someone is violent, racist, hateful, then they are. But it does not make them a good person.

It leads to the general detriment of society, it causes pain in others, it causes (for lack of a better word) decay.

Hate, anger, and the wrathful conflicts of that nature can only destroy and tear down what good things like love, friendship, and compassion have created and bonded. Doing good things is obviously the better choice for the future of of any society, and its people.

Actually what you are promoting is a atheistic view. The difference is that you are "doing good" for a self serving reason. The result for the recipient might be the same, but the result for you is very different. The idea of selfless acts is very difficult. By your definition if there is no self serving return for doing good then there will be no motivation to do so. Even if this self-serving return is the "warm fuzzy' if that is the motivation then it can be and is fleeting. It is defined by the giver. Thus doing good is motivated by only if there is a self reward of some kind. Now having said that, all good deeds have a "self reward" as an intrinsic part of the deed. However the difference is whether that is the only motivation. The challenge we have as Christians is that our motivation is to be for God and not self serving. We often fail this challenge, but we strive none the less.

God Bless,

K.D.

[Joshua-777]

Hmm, one poem posted, and the chaos theory starts. ANyways I find the poem quite good, because most of the athiests I've seen actualy are this way, now instead of running up and down angery screaming at a computer that can't hear you, why don't ya take the time to grasp the concept. So I'm going to pick apart this poem, and see if it is relivent.

Atheist

[nebula]

Thanks a bunch man

I guess you didn't read where I said I'm a female, either. That's OK, I don't always read through the whole thread before I post. No harm done.

[nebula]

Speculation is what I practice nebula and just like that Creed in your OP, you're completely backwards and even bring up something I never mentioned just to find I don't condone.

So, just to clarify -

Are you saying that you are not open-minded? But if you consider yourself open-minded, what exactly is your definition of open-mindedness?

Do you believe in poking fun at beliefs that disagree with yours?