Carnal Christians

[OneAccord]

There was a thread a little while back called 'Enemies of the Cross" that addressed the issue of 'carnal Christians'.

Here is an excerpt from that thread:

""I have heard people use the the word "Carnal Christians".

Those two words are an oxymoron, they should never be used together. This says that you can be sinful and Christ like at the same time. There is no such a thing. Paul said to be Carnal mind is to be an enemy of God. If you are a "carnal christian" then your an enemy of God.

The enemies of the cross are those who claim the name of Jesus but yet serve a differant master their own flesh.

The profess God with their mouth but thier hearts if far from him.

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

(Rom 8:7-8)

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

(Tit 1:16)""

I'm sure everyone knows someone that fits this description. How do we address this? And what causes this? Are these people really saved? Or is it possible to be saved and live according the flesh? Is it okay as long as it is just 'mild' transgressions? Is it our responsibility to admonish these folks?

[Guest LadyC]

my husband works with someone like that. he drives me nuts. he drunkenly slurs "praise the Lord" and other phrases, and talks about the importance of going to church while asking for a ride to the nearest pool hall where he can hustle anyone who will play him every sunday morning.

how do i address it? i avoid him at all costs! is he really a christian? well i don't know his heart. i know after i became a christian, many people probably thought i wasn't. it was a long walk to spiritual maturity, and i'm still walking it. is it possible to be saved and still live according to the flesh? i really think that depends on whether you sincerely WANT to live for Christ and have a repentant heart when you mess up.

personally, if someone calls themselves a christian and makes no effort to put their sinful ways behind them, i would call their christianity into question.

[endure4salvation]

There are probably hundreds of people listed in the NT, and exactly ZERO of them are in sin and described as saved.

People quote a passage in 1 Corinthians 3 to 'prove' that one can be a 'carnal christian' but they change the idea of what the passage is talking about.

Read it for yourself...

Paul said that they were 'fleshly' 'worldly', or 'carnal' not because they were living a lifestyle of sin, but because they didn't get along well and were arguing over who their favorite gospel preacher was.

Paul addressed just 2 chapters later one who was in outright sinful sexual immorality and said he was 'wicked' and in chapter 6, he says that the "wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God."

I would have to say that this person whom LadyC is talking about most likely believes in eternal security--thus making it a security-in-sin or license-to-sin doctrine.

Jude 3-4

Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation that we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints.  For certain men, whose condemnation was written about long ago, have secretly slipped in among you.  They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

[RGR]

I think that it's a odd situation. Some Christians go through a prolonged period of not being as close to the Lord as they should and their lives will show it. There are also those who are like I was. They are backslidden, they really know it, but yet refuse to acknowledge it. At one time I would do a lot of things I shouldn't. I would pray to ease the conviction but I had no intentions of changing!

There are also those who struggle with weaknesses. I still struggle with my attitude. I find the Lord daily working on my attitude! I find the old attitude wanting to rise up and, lately, it's been winning some battles, but praise the Lord I can see Him shining through changing me nonetheless!

[godrulz]

Salvation is to make a supreme choice to love and obey God as Lord and Boss. This is a Christian. He then makes subordinate choices to support his supreme choice to live for God rather than self. A new believer may have periods of sin and fleshly living. These lapses will become more infrequent as he lives up to the light he has.

A 'careless sinner' lives for Self.

A 'convicted sinner' struggles and has not surrendered his life to Christ. This may include 'carnal Christians', a category we have created for those who profess Christ but still live supremely for self. They are not regenerate nor in relationship with God, because they are selfish like the careless sinner.

We cannot obey and disobey at the same time. Partial obedience is disobedience.

It is possible to love God, but still struggle with some areas. These must be repented of with a desire to obey. One sin does not sever the relationship, but it hinders intimacy. Only God knows the heart and motives. A life of persistent, habitual sin calls into question the experience one has with God. At some point, these people are not believers, but merely religious.

[irishcowboy]

here is a good one for you to ponder....

one church i know of, refer to themselves as

THE FROZEN CHOSEN

another contradiction of terms..... frozen they are......chosen? hmmmmm ......

I dont see how a person that has the Spirit of God in them or with them, and living for God, can be frozen....

you are right, the closer we get to God , not only do we want to do His work, we are DOING HIS work... in His way......

mike

[OneAccord]

What I'm hearing from the responses is that a 'carnal Christian' may be one of three types:

1. Not had a genuine conversion

2. Still a babe maturing and wrestling with the flesh

3. Backslidden, straying from the faith

Is there another category that I'm missing?

The main cause for concern would be the bad witness for the church, giving the enemy occasion to blaspheme, bringing reproach on the name of God, which is pretty serious. Not to mention concern for the person's soul.

[OneAccord]

here is a good one for you to ponder....

one church i know of, refer to themselves as

THE FROZEN CHOSEN

another contradiction of terms..... frozen they are......chosen? hmmmmm ......

I dont see how a person that has the Spirit of God in them or with them, and living for God, can be frozen....

you are right, the closer we get to God , not only do we want to do His work, we are DOING HIS work... in His way......

mike

I have heard this term before, mainly referring to those who don't have the gifts operative in their lives and worship services. Those who are not 'on fire', but have more quiet, restrained practices.

[Guest idolsmasher]

I think everyone is carnal minded to some degree, it just seems to be the nature of the flesh. I could be wrong but I always thought that what Paul was saying is the the carnal mind or in other words that part of us that tends to carnality is enmity with God because it can cause us to stray from God's path. In other words, we all have a carnal mind and a spiritual mind and as Christians we must struggle to overcome the carnal mind. On the other hand, sometimes we can be overly spiritual too and spiritualise too much if you know what I mean. I don't think it is possible for people to never be carnal, but we have to realise when carnality is interfering with our walk with God and fight to keep in tune with Him.

[Guest shiloh357]

I think everyone is carnal minded to some degree, it just seems to be the nature of the flesh. I could be wrong but I always thought that what Paul was saying is the the carnal mind or in other words that part of us that tends to carnality is enmity with God because it can cause us to stray from God's path. In other words, we all have a carnal mind and a spiritual mind and as Christians we must struggle to overcome the carnal mind. On the other hand, sometimes we can be overly spiritual too and spiritualise too much if you know what I mean. I don't think it is possible for people to never be carnal, but we have to realise when carnality is interfering with our walk with God and fight to keep in tune with Him.

I would have to agree. We have to daily crucify our flesh. It is something we fight everyday. Sometimes we win, and sometimes unfortunately we give in. We are in a process of sanctification. If we didn't have that carnal side, there would be no carnal thoughts or habits to be sanctified from.