Why Pray

[Marnie]

Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. James 1:2-4

That is why you must pray.

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. Romans 8:28

{T}he Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will. Romans 8:26, 27

You can never stop praying no matter what. You might as well stop breathing.

so you are pretty much saying the word says we must pray so that when our prayers dont get answered the way we want them to/expect, our faith is tested and in so doing we develop perseverance and thus we become mature and complete ...... etc?

No. James is saying that the testing of our faith is what produces perseverance. In turn, as we persevere, we become mature believers. Part of that maturity is recognizing what we should be pray for and how we should pray. Many believer's prayers appear to go unanswered simply because they are asking amiss or praying incorrectly. G-d is not obligated to answer a prayer prayed out of His will.

[Marnie]

I think God has us pray because we need to show him how much we want it... he never works with half-hearted people. We need to really show him just how desperate we are for what we are wanting him to do...... he still wants us to at least try to put a finger into the work. I think God's additude is "if your heart aint in it? well than, mine aint either".

Masked Chris,

BELIEVE me when I say that my family and I were NOT half-hearted when praying for my sister. Our hearts WERE in it, and we couldn't have shown God any more DESPERATION. We DID put in MANY fingers of prayer to the work of trying to keep my sister alive.

God allowed our hopes to be built up that my sister was going to live, then He allowed her to die anyway.

So, DESPERATION doesn't really work does it?

This is exactly what I said in another thread but I was shouted down by better christians who claimed that the verses 1 John 14:15 meant that belief that you will get something from God if you just convince yourself that its already yours.

Apparently desperation work for some people. I guess the rest of us poor idiots in the REAL WORLD are just gonna have to learn how to project our will onto God's plans. Apparently it says we can in the Bible.

I hope my sarcasm is obvious. Maybe its a demon of sarchasm. HA,HA,HA.

Maybe you and I are of little faith because we've lost things in this world or won't get everything we want. Maybe we should just let other more fortunate people run everything, after all, they have scripture on their side. Silly us, maybe we're just not good enough christians. Mis understanding God and the Bible like that. I mean how could I miss it, The reason I've lost things that meant something is because I just plum didn't quote 1John, whatever it was to God.

Maybe you need to be a little less sarcastic, the lowest form of humor by the way and highly offensive to some, and spend more time in the Word and more time being taught from a minister of the Word who knows what he is talking about.

I didn't shout you down in the other thread, I corrected you because, (1) your view is dangerous to weaker believers who may be struggling in their faith and I wouldn't want you to be held responsible for causing the shipwreck of their faith, and (2) I hope the truth rubs off on you. Hope springs eternal, after all. Okay, that was a sarcastic statement, which I withdraw...

[reconditioned]

Oh, thats ok. I just feel that christianity in general is against me. I mean, everything I say everywhere in life is opposed.

I don't got a problem with you nearly as much if your intentions are good.

But you are actually hurting other's faith by saying these things. A person new to God hearing this will do as you say and feel they made a big mistake becoming a christian when things don't work out the way they asked.

Seriously, you'll badly hurt other people's self esteem. Make them think they're the problem with everything that doesn't work out. How many people coming to Christ need that anyway?

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

Oh, thats ok. I just feel that christianity in general is against me. I mean, everything I say everywhere in life is opposed.

I don't got a problem with you nearly as much if your intentions are good.

But you are actually hurting other's faith by saying these things. A person new to God hearing this will do as you say and feel they made a big mistake becoming a christian when things don't work out the way they asked.

Seriously, you'll badly hurt other people's self esteem. Make them think they're the problem with everything that doesn't work out. How many people coming to Christ need that anyway?

Okay guys. Please don't turn this thread into an argument.

This thread is about "why pray" - not about what you argued about in another thread.

Please don't argue or debate here.

I need some serious input; not sarcastic.

I didn't ask for an arguement or a debate.

Thanks to those who have taken me seriously and given me some great input.

I am still struggling with the purposes of prayer but am more optimistic about it today than I was yesterday.

[apothanein kerdos]

I'd encourage you to over ForrestKC post and my post on this thread.

God doesn't have us pray to see how much we want it, we can't change the mind of God. He is sovereign and in control, we are His creations and cannot rule of God. The purpose of prayer is for us to let God know what we want and what we think we need - but most of all to seek His Will in these matters, so that we will know how to handle them.

My Grandmother was heavily involved in a major "Christian" movement in the United States. When she was dying of cancer, some of the leaders of the movement showed up at her death bed and they were telling my grandfather the reason his wife was dying is that he didn't have enough faith, he wasn't praying hard enough, he wasn't saying the right prayer. It never crossed their minds that perhaps God simply wanted my grandmother to come home. It never crossed their minds that, since this is a fallen world, death, suffering, and pain are a part of it...and sometimes the only thing we can pray to God is not, "Please save this person" but instead, "Please bring us comfort in this loss."

If we pray in order to get God to do something, if we think prayer is our way to sway God's actions, then we are eventually going to give up on prayer all together. If we, however, treat prayer as a way for us to discover God's Will in our lives, and how to handle our needs and cares, then it becomes a powerful tool and a daily comfort we cannot relinquish.

[Emily~Anne]

There is no harm in being specific in prayer, as long as your heart is in the right place. You don't have to worry about God granting you anything that conflicts with his will for you. He is soveriegn and you can trust in him. If we were more powerful than him who sees the big picture, and our prayers were more powerful than God (which would be totally preposterous!) then yeah be very careful not to ask for anything ever cause you might ask for the wrong thing. I know for now we may have hurts, but when we go to Heaven someday, we will look back on our hardships in a TOTALLY different light!

Remember:

You are a child of the most high God.

You are a co-heir with Christ.

You are a jewel in His crown.

You are a full citizen of heaven, this is not our home.

You are set apart to Him.

And you have the favor of God.

His hand is upon you and NOTHING can touch you that He doesn't allow.

So when God does not answer your prayer how you were hoping he would, do not despair, remember that you are a child of the most high God and he loves you very much. His desire is that you trust him when things do not go how you would like them to go.

Isaiah 55:8

8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts,

neither are your ways my ways,"

declares the LORD.

[Fiosh]

I'd encourage you to over ForrestKC post and my post on this thread.

God doesn't have us pray to see how much we want it, we can't change the mind of God. He is sovereign and in control, we are His creations and cannot rule of God. The purpose of prayer is for us to let God know what we want and what we think we need - but most of all to seek His Will in these matters, so that we will know how to handle them.

My Grandmother was heavily involved in a major "Christian" movement in the United States. When she was dying of cancer, some of the leaders of the movement showed up at her death bed and they were telling my grandfather the reason his wife was dying is that he didn't have enough faith, he wasn't praying hard enough, he wasn't saying the right prayer. It never crossed their minds that perhaps God simply wanted my grandmother to come home. It never crossed their minds that, since this is a fallen world, death, suffering, and pain are a part of it...and sometimes the only thing we can pray to God is not, "Please save this person" but instead, "Please bring us comfort in this loss."

If we pray in order to get God to do something, if we think prayer is our way to sway God's actions, then we are eventually going to give up on prayer all together. If we, however, treat prayer as a way for us to discover God's Will in our lives, and how to handle our needs and cares, then it becomes a powerful tool and a daily comfort we cannot relinquish.

I have to admit that this topic baffles me. There are many times I've tried to understand prayer and don't quite get it.

Don't get me wrong----I pray every day; many times during the day; in various ways for various reasons. But what I don't understand is this--does prayer really change anything?

Hear me out. Suppose a dear friend, who is a good Christian sister has a problem. Naturally, I will keep her in my prayers. But, I know that God will "work all things for the good of those who love Him..." anyway. So, won't He do the absolute best for her with or without my prayers? If so, why am I praying for Him to help her?

Please understand, I'm not being disrespectful in any way. And I truly do believe we should "pray always". But I can't pretend to understand the effect of prayer.

Sure, I get that it changes us and deepens our own relationship with the Father.

But how does it effect the one we are praying for?????

Thanks in advance for your input,

Fiosh

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

I'd encourage you to over ForrestKC post and my post on this thread.

God doesn't have us pray to see how much we want it, we can't change the mind of God. He is sovereign and in control, we are His creations and cannot rule of God. The purpose of prayer is for us to let God know what we want and what we think we need - but most of all to seek His Will in these matters, so that we will know how to handle them.

My Grandmother was heavily involved in a major "Christian" movement in the United States. When she was dying of cancer, some of the leaders of the movement showed up at her death bed and they were telling my grandfather the reason his wife was dying is that he didn't have enough faith, he wasn't praying hard enough, he wasn't saying the right prayer. It never crossed their minds that perhaps God simply wanted my grandmother to come home. It never crossed their minds that, since this is a fallen world, death, suffering, and pain are a part of it...and sometimes the only thing we can pray to God is not, "Please save this person" but instead, "Please bring us comfort in this loss."

If we pray in order to get God to do something, if we think prayer is our way to sway God's actions, then we are eventually going to give up on prayer all together. If we, however, treat prayer as a way for us to discover God's Will in our lives, and how to handle our needs and cares, then it becomes a powerful tool and a daily comfort we cannot relinquish.

I have to admit that this topic baffles me. There are many times I've tried to understand prayer and don't quite get it.

Don't get me wrong----I pray every day; many times during the day; in various ways for various reasons. But what I don't understand is this--does prayer really change anything?

Hear me out. Suppose a dear friend, who is a good Christian sister has a problem. Naturally, I will keep her in my prayers. But, I know that God will "work all things for the good of those who love Him..." anyway. So, won't He do the absolute best for her with or without my prayers? If so, why am I praying for Him to help her?

Please understand, I'm not being disrespectful in any way. And I truly do believe we should "pray always". But I can't pretend to understand the effect of prayer.

Sure, I get that it changes us and deepens our own relationship with the Father.

But how does it effect the one we are praying for?????

Thanks in advance for your input,

Fiosh

That's exactly how I feel. That's why I started this thread. If God is going to do what He's going to do, then why does He need our prayers?

[Vickilynn]

Shalom LovingHim4ever,

First off, I am so sorry about your sister. And I pray for the L-rd's comfort to surround you.

In answer to your question, there are many reasons for prayer. I undersyand what you're saying, "if G-d is going to do what He wants, why bother to pray?"

Let's look at Jesus and what He did in the Garden. He knew what was coming. He also knew it had to be this way, and yet, He prayed to the Father and poured His heart out (and prayed so hard He sweat blood)

Luke 22

41And he withdrew from them about a stone's throw, and knelt down and prayed, 42saying, "Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, not my will, but yours, be done." 43And there appeared to him an angel from heaven, strengthening him. 44And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly; and his sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

Matthew

36Then Jesus went with them to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to his disciples, "Sit here, while I go over there and pray." 37And taking with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, he began to be sorrowful and troubled. 38Then he said to them, "My soul is very sorrowful, even to death; remain here, and watch with me." 39And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will." 40And he came to the disciples and found them sleeping. And he said to Peter, "So, could you not watch with me one hour? 41Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak." 42Again, for the second time, he went away and prayed, "My Father, if this cannot pass unless I drink it, your will be done." 43And again he came and found them sleeping, for their eyes were heavy. 44So, leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words again.

[Guest lnj]

We are told to ask our Father for things. He loves to give us things, it makes Him happy. Don't you want to make God happy as well? Ask away, but know that He gives what you NEED, not useless wants.

God is no robot and neither are we, so give God the petitions of your heart and wait, learn and rejoice and give Praise to Him when your requests have been answered and some.