Noah's Ark

[MorningGlory]

Dave, Horizon. How can either of you expect a constructive discussion when you spend most of your time belittling each other's opinion? Neither of you can prove whether a soul exists or not so stop trying to make it seem like the other person is stupid. Since neither side can be proven you both hold equally valuable and respectable positions on this issue and if you kept this in mind during your debate you might actually make some progress.

Good point, atheistreview. Debate can't proceed on a personal level.

[AthiestAndProud]

It happened and it happened exactly as the scriptures say it happened.

AMEN. Why must the Word of God be questioned? If it was possible for Jesus to resurrected, it was possible for God to make the whole ark story the truth. And it is the truth for the Bible tells us so. Nothing in the Word of God is fiction.

It's all fiction, nothing but Fairy Tales.

[MorningGlory]

It happened and it happened exactly as the scriptures say it happened.

AMEN. Why must the Word of God be questioned? If it was possible for Jesus to resurrected, it was possible for God to make the whole ark story the truth. And it is the truth for the Bible tells us so. Nothing in the Word of God is fiction.

It's all fiction, nothing but Fairy Tales.

So...you dug up a three and a half year old post to say THAT? What's your point?

[Botz]

It's all fiction, nothing but Fairy Tales.

Noah's flood and Ark is most likely a combination of real historical events that have been mythologized over time and eventually written down. Hardly "all fiction".

D-9 Would you like to have a stab at which part is fiction and which part is historical and demonstrate by what criteria you come to your conclusions? Matt 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

There is a rational method to proper biblical exegesis that follows certain literary rules....without it chaos and confusion is rife, and the Bible becomes cheapened and turned into something it is not by the foibles of man through his ignorance and pride.

There are passages in the Bible that are not easy to immediately understand, but G-d is not the Author of confusion or the Initiator of myth and speculation.

The idea that the Bible is all fiction and fairy-tales is in itself a perfect demonstration of how to speak off the top of ones head, and doesn't really warrant a serious reply....but good to meet you AtheistAndProud, and welcome to Worthy.

[MorningGlory]

D-9 Would you like to have a stab at which part is fiction and which part is historical and demonstrate by what criteria you come to your conclusions? Matt 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

There is a rational method to proper biblical exegesis that follows certain literary rules....without it chaos and confusion is rife, and the Bible becomes cheapened and turned into something it is not by the foibles of man through his ignorance and pride.

There are passages in the Bible that are not easy to immediately understand, but G-d is not the Author of confusion or the Initiator of myth and speculation.

The idea that the Bible is all fiction and fairy-tales is in itself a perfect demonstration of how to speak off the top of ones head, and doesn't really warrant a serious reply....but good to meet you AtheistAndProud, and welcome to Worthy.

Mainly I use empirical evidence and logic. The idea that Noah's flood was worldwide, for instance, is not true. The idea that Noah had every species, or every living thing on the Ark (I'll even give a by to freshwater and saltwater fish as well as birds and insects that can fly) is not true. The event most likely describes the formation of the Black Sea, which probably was inhabited by many people that unfortunately died. Such an event certainly would turn a multitude of people's lives upside down, and re-located anyone who survived the ordeal.

The only thing I can think of that would be similar today was that huge tsunami a few years ago. Now imagine living there in ancient times and the same tsunami came rolling in devastating and killing so many. To you, the world would have been flooded and would have stayed flooded for a long time. Over time such an event would probably become mythologized and turned into a story bigger than life, which for the people at the time it would have been.

I think something similar happened with Noah's flood; perhaps someone or a group of people were able to save a good sample of livestock and local flora and plant life from the rushing water on some boats or rafts, I think such would satisfy the historical account of the flood and allow such to be mythologized into the story we have today.

You keep saying you're a Christian, D-9, and yet continually make statements of unbelief. It's either/or....you can't be a believer and not believe.

[Botz]

Mainly I use empirical evidence and logic. The idea that Noah's flood was worldwide, for instance, is not true. The idea that Noah had every species, or every living thing on the Ark (I'll even give a by to freshwater and saltwater fish as well as birds and insects that can fly) is not true. The event most likely describes the formation of the Black Sea, which probably was inhabited by many people that unfortunately died. Such an event certainly would turn a multitude of people's lives upside down, and re-located anyone who survived the ordeal.

The only thing I can think of that would be similar today was that huge tsunami a few years ago. Now imagine living there in ancient times and the same tsunami came rolling in devastating and killing so many. To you, the world would have been flooded and would have stayed flooded for a long time. Over time such an event would probably become mythologized and turned into a story bigger than life, which for the people at the time it would have been.

I think something similar happened with Noah's flood; perhaps someone or a group of people were able to save a good sample of livestock and local flora and plant life from the rushing water on some boats or rafts, I think such would satisfy the historical account of the flood and allow such to be mythologized into the story we have today.

I see...so when it says in the Bible Genesis 6:17

[Arthur Durnan]

Let's talk about the Ark. This is always something I've had trouble taking literally but there must be some way to do it.

I'm interested in hearing about the logistics involved in keeping seven individuals of every terrestial animal species on a wooden boat for 150 days. Space, food, waste, water. How would it work? And were any of the dinosaurs on board?

Gee whiz, kind sir, all you're actually saying is that you cannot believe the Creator Who recorded this wonderful account back in Genesis! Truth to tell, they discovered Noah's boat in the Ararat range quite some years back now, first time by Russian aviators. Noah took on board examples of each original animal genre from which various animals spring., not one of every existing individual animal walking around. You'll have to make up your own mind on this one: Did the Creator do as He said, or do we finite humans know more than He does? Excellent question, yes? Check the great volume, "The Genesis Flood" by Morris & Whitcomb.

[MorningGlory]

Let's talk about the Ark. This is always something I've had trouble taking literally but there must be some way to do it.

I'm interested in hearing about the logistics involved in keeping seven individuals of every terrestial animal species on a wooden boat for 150 days. Space, food, waste, water. How would it work? And were any of the dinosaurs on board?

Gee whiz, kind sir, all you're actually saying is that you cannot believe the Creator Who recorded this wonderful account back in Genesis! Truth to tell, they discovered Noah's boat in the Ararat range quite some years back now, first time by Russian aviators. Noah took on board examples of each original animal genre from which various animals spring., not one of every existing individual animal walking around. You'll have to make up your own mind on this one: Did the Creator do as He said, or do we finite humans know more than He does? Excellent question, yes? Check the great volume, "The Genesis Flood" by Morris & Whitcomb.

I don't think that 'Ark' on Mt. Ararat has been proven to be Noah's Ark, Arthur. It's pretty much conjecture.

[Guest shiloh357]

Mainly I use empirical evidence and logic.

No you don't.

The idea that Noah's flood was worldwide, for instance, is not true.

Based on what? Were you there?

The idea that Noah had every species, or every living thing on the Ark (I'll even give a by to freshwater and saltwater fish as well as birds and insects that can fly) is not true.

The problem D-9 is that the Bible does not claim that Noah took every species of living things. Noah did not take every species of dogs. He took two dogs. He did not take every species of anything. He simply took two of that particular kind.

The event most likely describes the formation of the Black Sea, which probably was inhabited by many people that unfortunately died. Such an event certainly would turn a multitude of people's lives upside down, and re-located anyone who survived the ordeal.

So much for your "logic" claim. If it was just a tsunammi, how would Noah have known 120 years in advance that it was coming and to prepare for it?

The only thing I can think of that would be similar today was that huge tsunami a few years ago. Now imagine living there in ancient times and the same tsunami came rolling in devastating and killing so many. To you, the world would have been flooded and would have stayed flooded for a long time. Over time such an event would probably become mythologized and turned into a story bigger than life, which for the people at the time it would have been.

Except that the Bible repeatedly describes a global flood even in the New Testament. To think that people back then were just too stupid to know the difference local flood (which happened all the time back then as well) and a world-wide deluge is nothing but intellectual suicide on your part. Furthermore, the idea that it was formed by a tsunammi is just laughable.

I think something similar happened with Noah's flood; perhaps someone or a group of people were able to save a good sample of livestock and local flora and plant life from the rushing water on some boats or rafts, I think such would satisfy the historical account of the flood and allow such to be mythologized into the story we have today.

Again, your logic doesn't fit. Why would it be necessary to save all those animals for such a small, localized flood of such limited impact? There would certainly be no need to build an ark when all that was needed was for Noah and his family to move. The impact would certainly not have rendered any species animals extinct.

[Hunterpoet]

Let's talk about the Ark. This is always something I've had trouble taking literally but there must be some way to do it.

I'm interesting in hearing about the logistics involved in keeping seven individuals of every terrestial animal species in a wooden boat for 150 days. Space, food, waste, water. How would it work? And were the dinosaurs on board?

Hate to say it, but to me this is one of those stories that looks like an allegory to explain the ideas behind God's covanent to us. It has significant meaning, but it is very hard for me to take it as literal truth. That doesn't mean it doesn't hold Godly truth, but I feel it was a device used to explain things to people.

El-Shaddai builds a universe, creates a world to sustain life, and something as easy as an Ark causes you to doubt?