Are we commanded to cut our hair or not?

[Eliyahuw]

I have worked around guys with long hair, and "feminine" is the one thing they were not. In fact, they were the polar opposite of anything that looked feminine.

LOL, Yeah I hear ya.

[OopsMartin]

I have worked around guys with long hair, and "feminine" is the one thing they were not. In fact, they were the polar opposite of anything that looked feminine.

Agreed. All those "hunky" men in the movies depicting ancient times were supurb examples of strong men fighting to protect the weak. I think it was only the Roman society that liked short hair on men.

[Giaour]

I have been giving topics like this one quite a bit of thought lately.

This is what I have come up with.

I believe that every part of the Bible, Old and New testament, has a message for everyone regardless of who it was specifically written to.

Certain laws were given to specific people but it doesnt mean that they dont mean anything to the rest of us.

The old testament laws were written to the Jews, the priests,the Levites, the whoevers. but just because we are not specifically named, it doesnt mean that we dont have things to learn from them. What are we to learn from all the OT laws? We are to learn that it is impossible to be sinless, it is impossible for anyone to follow the law without transgressions.

So what we learn is that we need salvation apart from works of the law. We are saved By faith not works lest any man boast.

All of the laws pointed to Christ. We need Christ to save us because we are unable to follow the letter of the laws.

Even the New Testament letters that were written to places like Corinth and Ephesis have messages for us.

Yeah, paul wrote to those places but his message is for us as well.

Paul is teaching how to live in unity and become one in the Body, regardless of heritage and traditions and ceremony.

We need to base our faith on Christ alone. We shouldnt go around telling eachother that you cant cut your hair, or have a tattoo, or you must tithe etc to be saved. That is what the Gentiles were being told. They were being told that they had to observe the Jewish holy days, and food restrictions and circumcisions. Paul makes it clear that we are saved through Christ and no traditions or rituals will save us so why put a stumbling block in front of the believers.

If we follow what Christ Himself told us to hang all the law on,(love God and love eachother) then we will be shown in our hearts by the Holy Spirit how we are to behave in a Christlike fashion.

We are each convicted within on how to behave without. The laws are for those who dont have the Holy Spirit to guide them. They need the law to guide them.

Anyways, this is my personal opinion, take it or leave it.

[Vickilynn]

The problem here, is that those who believe that Paul is setting the bar for men's hair length are not "discussing" it. They are the ones who claim that any other view is wrong.

Shalom Shiloh,

With all due respect Brother, I have seen you keep telling others they are wrong.

Hair length is NOT a valid question, because hair length is not the object that Paul has in view in 1 Corinthians.

I'm sorry, but you have totally missed my point. Yes, hair length IS a valid topic and question because it is addressed in the Scriptures and this board exists to discuss the Scriptures and since we are discussing Scriptures, we should be able to discuss anything pertaining to the Scriptures or to Christian living without being told we shouldn't talk about it, and without being told it's not valid and without people being contentious about it. THAT is my point. (and a run-on sentence!)

If you consider this topic meaningless, then please, don't bother with it. It's that simple. However, perhaps others find it interesting to examine and discuss and you, or anyone else, has no right to say it's meaningless, carnal, unbiblical or anything else, to discuss. See my point?

Some people, bcause they are caught up in meaningless, legalistic, carnal, trivial rules refuse to acknowledge that Paul was addressing a issue that is to a large degree foreign to any frame of reference most of us possess.

And this is not a grace-filled statement. THAT was my point Shiloh. You are focusing more on the fact that people have different opinions and interpretations than discussing this with grace.

Paul was dealing with a much larger issue than hair length. Some people, simply miss the point that Paul is making to Corinthians. They miss the point because they are unwilling or unable to make the necessary distinction between what is relevant in the sense of practical living and what is spiritually relevant.

And some people miss the point that arguing, calling people names, calling people's convictions "meaningless, carnal, trivial" etc. etc, is not a right way to discuss with maturity and spirituality.

I am talking about the discussion itself Brother. I am talking about love, patience and grace. That is a more important aspect of this discussion than hair length. Some people are so caught up in attacking other's views about hair length that they don't see the lack of grace. Which is more important?

Colossians 4

5Conduct yourselves wisely toward outsiders, making the best use of the time. 6Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person.

[apothanein kerdos]

I have worked around guys with long hair, and "feminine" is the one thing they were not. In fact, they were the polar opposite of anything that looked feminine.

Historically, the only culture I can think of where men didn't have long hair was Rome and America, post-1800. All other cultures, men would have long hair, braid it, or in the case of the Western powers from 1600-1800, wear whigs to give the appearance of long hair.

The reason the Romans refused to have long hair is because the "barbarians" had long hair. However, I really can't think of a single culture, other than those two, where men had short hair.

[Guest shiloh357]

With all due respect Brother, I have seen you keep telling others they are wrong.

Yes, I have. And that is because they are wrong. They are not wrong for wanting to keep their hair short, if that is their conviction. They are wrong for trying to make a doctrine out of nondoctrinal issue. They are wrong for telling others that they are "shaming" themselves by having long hair. It is not wrong to tell people they are wrong. There comes a point when we just have to be honest with people about the facts of issue. Facts are facts. It is time that people face facts, and stop trying to justify pet doctrines with sloppy, misguided theology. Telling some they are wrong, is not telling them they are a badk person, nor is it disparaging them at all. It amounts to having the courage to simply tell the truth.

I'm sorry, but you have totally missed my point. Yes, hair length IS a valid topic and question because it is addressed in the Scriptures and this board exists to discuss the Scriptures and since we are discussing Scriptures, we should be able to discuss anything pertaining to the Scriptures or to Christian living without being told we shouldn't talk about it, and without being told it's not valid and without people being contentious about it. THAT is my point.

Sorry, but hair length (as a doctrinal issue) is not at all discussed in the Scripture. It is not a valid doctrinal subject. Kindly tell me where I have denied anyone the right to discuss anything. However, I will continue to correct the completely incorrect and legalistic nonsense that amounts to trying to impose as a doctrine, something that is not doctrinal in nature, namely telling men that they are somehow disobeying Scripture if they have "long hair." It is a point of contention whenever people are trying to impose rules on people, that God never intended to be imposed.

Paul was discussing a much larger issue. Some people want to ignore the REAL issue because if they were ever honest about what Paul was actually addressing, it would kick the legs out from under their petty, legalistic rules.

If you consider this topic meaningless, then please, don't bother with it. It's that simple. However, perhaps others find it interesting to examine and discuss and you, or anyone else, has no right to say it's meaningless, carnal, unbiblical or anything else, to discuss. See my point?

I very much have the right to call something exactly what it is. The hair length issue is carnal, immuature and unbiblical because it completely overlooks what the Paul is trying to teach. Instead of actually addressing the Scripture in context, both historically and culturally, people simply miss the point. We can see that Paul had a much more important issue in mind.

I would also like to point out to you Vickilynn, that I have been extremely patient throughout this entire thread. I have been the one accused of trying to throw out parts of the Bible, and I have been the one accused of holding positions that I do not hold to, and I have been accused of saying things that I have not said. I have been consistently and patiently trying to clarify my position and correct the perceptions that have been falsley attributed to me.

All I get in repsonse is more of the same immature responses. I will not allow my postion to be misrepresented. If that amounts to contentiousness to you, then all I can say is, "get over it."

QUOTE

Some people, bcause they are caught up in meaningless, legalistic, carnal, trivial rules refuse to acknowledge that Paul was addressing a issue that is to a large degree foreign to any frame of reference most of us possess.

And this is not a grace-filled statement. THAT was my point Shiloh. You are focusing more on the fact that people have different opinions and interpretations than discussing this with grace.

The fact is, what I said is true. It is blunt and to the point, but it is not unkind or mean-spirited. It is simpy telling the truth about these kinds of things. If someone feels that they must cut their hair a certain way and adorn themselves a certain way, and if that is something that edifies them in their walk with the Lord, then more power to them. I will not stand for those things to be imposed on believers, and I certainly will not stand by while the Bible is used to impose unbiblical, legalistic rules on other people.

And some people miss the point that arguing, calling people names, calling people's convictions "meaningless, carnal, trivial" etc. etc, is not a right way to discuss with maturity and spirituality.

I have not called anyone any names. The whole idea that God imposes a doctine of hair length is not only trivial and carnal but it is also false. It is a position that has absoultely no solid doctrinal foundation. The idea that Chrisitan men must have short hair to be biblically obedient is pure nonsense, and it does not embarrass me at all to say so. I am not disparaging those want to believe it, but I do resent their attempt to make it binding on everyone else.

I am talking about the discussion itself Brother. I am talking about love, patience and grace. That is a more important aspect of this discussion than hair length. Some people are so caught up in attacking other's views about hair length that they don't see the lack of grace. Which is more important?

I have been more than patient. It is my position that has undergone the greatest degree of disparagement. I have been the one accused of trying to throw out the Bible and such. Perhaps you need to read the entire thread. I have been extremely generous and patience with my responses. Calling someone else's position wrong, when it is indeed wrong is not "impatient." I have not lost my temper whatsoever. But I am nnot going to treat an unbiblical, legalisitc position as being morally or scripturally equivalent or equal in validity with mine.

There comes point when we have to draw a line in the sand and plant our feet on an issue. There is nothing unloving or ungraceful about it. Nor is it hateful. You may not like it, but that does not make it wrong.

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

If someone feels that they must cut their hair a certain way and adorn themselves a certain way, and if that is something that edifies them in their walk with the Lord, then more power to them.

I agree with this statement.

Everyone must live their own convictions.

I can't tell you what the Holy Spirit is speaking to your heart,

and you can't tell me what the Holy Spirit is speaking to my heart.

What may be good for me may not be good for you,

and what may be good for you may not be good for me.

I've tried living other people's convictions before.

It doesn't work for me. I was miserable.

If a man is convicted not to have his hair long, so be it.

If a woman is convicted not to have her hair short, so be it.

"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12).

[Vickilynn]

With all due respect Brother, I have seen you keep telling others they are wrong.

Yes, I have. And that is because they are wrong. They are not wrong for wanting to keep their hair short, if that is their conviction. They are wrong for trying to make a doctrine out of nondoctrinal issue. They are wrong for telling others that they are "shaming" themselves by having long hair. It is not wrong to tell people they are wrong. There comes a point when we just have to be honest with people about the facts of issue. Facts are facts. It is time that people face facts, and stop trying to justify pet doctrines with sloppy, misguided theology. Telling some they are wrong, is not telling them they are a badk person, nor is it disparaging them at all. It amounts to having the courage to simply tell the truth.

Shalom Shiloh,

Yes, I understand that, but you see, your statement here is what I responded to and it doesn't line up with what you're saying now.

The problem here, is that those who believe that Paul is setting the bar for men's hair length are not "discussing" it. They are the ones who claim that any other view is wrong.

Shiloh, if you give yourself the right to speak your mind, then others have that right as well. The "truth" is that we are all entitled to our posts and what we believe.

I won't go round and round with you because you've got your mind pretty made up, but I just wanted to weigh in here since you are taking the time to point out the speck in thy brother's eye and seemingly missing thy own log.

Paul was discussing a much larger issue. Some people want to ignore the REAL issue because if they were ever honest about what Paul was actually addressing, it would kick the legs out from under their petty, legalistic rules.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

I personally don't see anyone who has posted anything petty or legalistic, but if you wish to see it that way, have at it! The REAL issue as I see it that some people want to be able to hold convictions while telling others theirs are wrong. Sorry, that's not Scriptural. Since this has nothing to do with salvation or sin, it is a matter of personal conviction and as such, should be discussed with respect and grace for each other's position, which you are refusing to do.

If you consider this topic meaningless, then please, don't bother with it. It's that simple. However, perhaps others find it interesting to examine and discuss and you, or anyone else, has no right to say it's meaningless, carnal, unbiblical or anything else, to discuss. See my point?

I very much have the right to call something exactly what it is. The hair length issue is carnal, immuature and unbiblical because it completely overlooks what the Paul is trying to teach. Instead of actually addressing the Scripture in context, both historically and culturally, people simply miss the point. We can see that Paul had a much more important issue in mind. Edited April 8, 2007 by Vickilynn

[Floatingaxe]

Whooo-hooooooo!!! Right on, Shiloh!!

[Scarletprayers]

Sooooooooooo by keeping this going and pointing out what "you" think about what Shiloh said, and telling him how he is wrong, what exactly are you doing differently, since your doing the same thing, you are accusing him of doing.

Talking about the speck in your brothers eye and a plank in your own is right.

Shiloh for President in "08"