Salvation "IF YOU"

[justjake]

can you ever come back again?

Well, here are some quotes:

Hebrews 6:4-8 (AMP)

For it is impossible [to restore and bring again to repentance] those who have been once for all enlightened, who have consciously tasted the heavenly gift and have become sharers of the Holy Spirit, and have felt how good the Word of God is and the mighty powers of the age and world to come, If they then deviate from the faith and turn away from their allegiance--[it is impossible] to bring them back to repentance, for (because, while, as long as) they nail upon the cross the Son of God afresh [as far as they are concerned] and are holding [Him] up to contempt and shame and public disgrace.  For the soil which has drunk the rain that repeatedly falls upon it and produces vegetation useful to those for whose benefit it is cultivated partakes of a blessing from God.  But if [that same soil] persistently bears thorns and thistles, it is considered worthless and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

Here is a Jewish translation (JNTP) by David H. Stern, a Messianic Jew:

Hebrews 6:4-6

For when people have once been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, become sharers in the Ruach HaKodesh, and tasted the goodness of God's Word and the powers of the 'olam haba'--and then have fallen away--it is impossible to renew them so that they turn from their sin, as long as for themselves they keep executing the Son of God on the stake all over again and keep holding him up to public contempt.

Did you notice that these literal translations give much more detail to this passage? It shows that it is only impossible as long as they are executing or crucifying Jesus again.

It is also clear that they can return and reclaim their previous position after they stop and repent of their wicked deeds.

Like take the following sentense:

"You used to go out and party until 4 AM when you lived in your apartment, but as long as you are under my roof, you can not live that way--my house my rules."

This is sort of like what Hebrews 6:4-6 is saying. You can't be saved as long as you are re-crucifying Jesus by living a sinful lifestyle.

Here is one more passage that says you can reclaim your place in God's kingdom:

Romans 11:17-22

If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not boast over those branches.  If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.  You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in".  Granted.  But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith.  Do not be arrogant, but be afraid.  For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.  Consider the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in His kindness.  Otherwise, you will be cut off.  And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

My understanding of this passage is that the Jews (natural branches) were broken off because of unbelief (not having faith). So God turned to the Gentiles and even they could be broken off because of unbelief (not having faith), but if they are convicted of sin, they can reclaim their place if they repent. God did break off the Jews:

Matthew 21:33-44 (NKJV)

Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country.  Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another.  Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them.  Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying,

[Guest idolsmasher]

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1 Corinthians 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

These scriptures seem to indicate that if a believer's works aren't pleasing to the Lord, his works will not remain and there will be no reward, but the believer will still be saved.

[Guest idolsmasher]

How are we saved? By faith? Yes, God supplies the grace, we supply the faith?

Isn't that what Ephesians 2:8-9 says?

From what I understand, faith also comes from God through the word. It is by hearing the word that faith grows to bring us to salvation.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

[justjake]

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1 Corinthians 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

These scriptures seem to indicate that if a believer's works aren't pleasing to the Lord, his works will not remain and there will be no reward, but the believer will still be saved.

Those Scriptures do say that if a man's works are burned up he will still be saved.

But lousy works are not the same as commiting wicked acts of immorality. Paul addressed this very subject just 3 chapters later when he warns these same believers that they can still miss out on inheriting the kingdom of God!

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God?  Do not be deceived: Neither the sexual immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

What exactly is Paul saying here? Is he not warning Christians to not sue other Christians because such will be denied enterance into God's heaven? He didn't stop with just suing (the wicked act he was refering to) other believers, but said that if anybody is commiting any other of the acts listed that they simply won't be allowed to enter heaven.

+++

From what I understand, faith also comes from God through the word. It is by hearing the word that faith grows to bring us to salvation.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The Bible teaches that God desires that ALL men be saved, right (2 Peter 3:9; 1 Timothy 2:4)? And the Bible teaches that we are saved by our faith, right (Ephesians 2:8-9; Matthew 9:22)? And the Bible teaches that God gives a measure of faith to all men, right (Romans 12:3 may seem to say that, but I am not sure)?

So does that mean that since God wants ALL to be saved and faith is what saves and God gives each one a measure of faith, does that mean that ALL will be saved?

Or is there some sort of human responsibility involved?

[tsth]

If I may, I'd like to suggest that you all go back and take another "glance" at His son's post. It looked pretty thorough, yet thoroughly overlooked.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[His son]

ah...but that is only half the question!

still waiting....

Maybe you should read those Scriptures which make definite statements that they have reached the place of no more repentance.

[stevehut]

Oh Lord, give me the strength not to get involved in this conversation...sheeesh!

[stevehut]

OK Yod, if you insist...

If my people

[other one]

How far is too far? At what point does someone lose their salvation?

I don't remember their names and it is too late for me to look it up but the couple who sold their land or something and only gave part of it to the church and did it in a way that showed it was all of it, thus lying to the Holy Spirit; they crossed the line and God killed them on the spot.

If you aint dead God is still dealing with you/me. It is like lightening, you won't know it until you get there and then it won't help to know.

Just stear clear of the whole situation

[stevehut]

How far is too far? At what point does someone lose their salvation?

And is it possible to ever get it back once they've done that????

About losing salvation?

Hebrews 10

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

About getting it back? It's called repentance.