Did anyone see the debate on TV last night?

[Vickilynn]

A fool who happens to be a christian is still just a fool.

Shalom WSB,

You and not G-d are the one to make that determination?

Matthew 5

21"You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.' 22But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, 'You fool!' will be liable to the hell of fire. 23So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you,

[apothanein kerdos]

For the millionth time, your opinion is just that. You are not G-d and you don't know Kirk and Ray's purpose or calling.

Vick, watch the debate. It's not their calling at all.

Shalom AK,

When you get to be G-d, you can make that call. Until then, it's not your place or mine.

I'd rather trust G-d than your opinion.

Vick, i's fact. They are not called to it. Again, watch the debate.

[Vickilynn]

We can NEVER, EVER present or defend the Gospel in such a way as to change a heart. Only the Holy Spirit can.

The bottom line is, do we trust our abilities or G-d's?

[Vickilynn]

For the millionth time, your opinion is just that. You are not G-d and you don't know Kirk and Ray's purpose or calling.

Vick, watch the debate. It's not their calling at all.

Shalom AK,

When you get to be G-d, you can make that call. Until then, it's not your place or mine.

I'd rather trust G-d than your opinion.

Vick, i's fact. They are not called to it. Again, watch the debate.

Shalom AK,

You know, I do believe you are simply playing. Arguing for argument sake with no real substance in any of your words.

Now that I see you have no Scripture to back up your repeated statements that are simply your opinion, I'll ignore your posts from now on. Shalom to you.

[Vickilynn]

[

Shalom WSB,

You and not G-d are the one to make that determination?

Matthew 5

21"You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.' 22But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, 'You fool!' will be liable to the hell of fire. 23So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you,

Oh yes, the "dont use the word fool" argument.

I guess David, Jesus, and Paul all went to hell too since they regularly called people fools, both in person and in writing?

Shalom WSB,

I see you did not answer the question. Please do.

LOL! For someone campaigning for intelligent debate and judging others for their supposed lack of it, this was rather a poor example of your position and standards.

Sarcastic barbs are a poor substitute for mature debate with substance and Scriptural support.

I would say that the Scriptures here are more needed than man's wisdom.

G-d's wisdom is never wrong.

[exrockstar]

Vicki i understand your point. Honey believe me i do.

However i am teetering towards AK and Why....

I can definately see that Kirk and that other cat are blessed. You can tell. I am sure they are out there working.

However, arguements can be made.

Their calling may be to lead their churches.

However, they were not there to present the gospel. They took on a task that was outside of what we study.

We walk by faith.

To accept a debate that has nothing to do with presenting the gospel was a waste of time.

They stepped on that stage to take on intellectual challenges. Intelligence and faith have nothing to

do with each other. I even dare say that God had nothing to do with their "calling" on that show.

They were on there to take on an intellectual challenge they were not prepared for.

That is why the body has many members.

That is why one has to say..."ya know, i aint that good with science and evolution so I'll ask ole' church

member Albert here to step up. and take Johnny cuz he's good at making people go 'hmmmm'"

God will reach within His own. God has a plan.

For all we know, Kirk and that other cat learned from this and have come up with a plan to do something when

it's outside of their church. If you have a gift of pastor-teacher then that's it. Their gift isn't working because

they weren't up there pastoring. ... 3xR0c|<stAr

[Floatingaxe]

For the millionth time, your opinion is just that. You are not G-d and you don't know Kirk and Ray's purpose or calling.

Vick, watch the debate. It's not their calling at all.

Shalom AK,

When you get to be G-d, you can make that call. Until then, it's not your place or mine.

I'd rather trust G-d than your opinion.

Vick, i's fact. They are not called to it. Again, watch the debate.

Of course they were called to it!

Just because they weren't flashy with sound and lights, deosn't mean they weren't called by God to present what He wanted them to exactly!

What about the stuttering Moses? What about the simple fishermen Jesus called to proclaim the greatest message the world has ever known? Do you think they studied? Do you think they took elocution?

Wanton criticism of the brethren here and those who have gone before us is just another way I am seeing this board going downhill. We can disagree about points of doctrine, but to actually call other believers fools!!!

I am proud to be counted a fool for Christ...sobeit!

[undone]

That is why one has to say..."ya know, i aint that good with science and evolution so I'll ask ole' church

member Albert here to step up. and take Johnny cuz he's good at making people go 'hmmmm'"

[Vickilynn]

Vicki i understand your point. Honey believe me i do.

However i am teetering towards AK and Why....

Shalom Ex,

LOL!

It's really OK, I'm not here to win anything, just stand up for the Word. If you want to side with AK, that is your choice. I'm actually simply standing for G-d and He doesn't need me or anyone to be on His side. You know?

In all sincerity Ex, I would encourage you and everyone to side with the Bible and not man's wisdom. That is what this is all about. The questions have been asked, but refused to be answered. Yet, they are the crux of the debate here.

Whom do we trust more, man's ability, or G-d's?

If we say man's, then we have shut G-d out and placed ourselves on G-d's throne.

If we say G-d's, then we must admit that we cannot judge those who do not meet man's standards.

Who can change the heart of man, us or G-d?

If we say WE can, then we have put ourselves in G-d's place. This is not a good place to be!! It is a place of the sin of pride!

If we say G-d, we must admit that nothing that we say or don't say can change a heart, only the Holy Spirit can. And we must not judge anyone for not meeting man's standards.

It is wrong to sit here and say that we know what Kirk and Ray's calling is. I'll say this again, we are not qualified to make that judgment. Only G-D can, for He knows what purposes He has for these men. For us to postulate that we know that this guy is called here or so and so is called there, is nothing short of our flesh rising up and trying to be in G-d's place. The bottom line is, we are not G-d and so we cannot say what these men are called to. G-d is the only One who can.

What matters more here, our opinion or G-d's Word?

[mrs]

1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

1Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

1Co 1:31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Rom 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Phi 2:1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,

Phi 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

Phi 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

Phi 2:4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

Phi 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: