Feminism is anti-Christ

[OopsMartin]

Myself, I am a firm, old fashioned believer that a wife should be obedient to her husband.

However, if you look at the verse of scripture more closely, there is no need for a woman to feel 'less worthy' than her husband, for the following reason:

A wife is told to obey her husband;

A husband is told to love his wife.

So, who, in actual fact, is the one who 'serves'?.....

The one who 'obeys'....or the one who 'loves'?

There is no reason for anybody, male or female, to take offense at any instruction regarding the marital union, in my opinion. Both are catered for, and no-one needs to feel 'left out' or 'less important' thumbsup.gif

In spite of the fact that Scripture does not say that a wife is to obey her husband, you are correct. IF both spouses seek to serve the other to the fullest of their ability, it should work out for the good of both. Unfortunately, that is the rarest of cases when "authority over" is brought into the marriage. It makes the husband the focal point of the marriage instead of Christ.

Rarely is there a problem of wifely submission in Christian marriages. Christian women have been verbally brow beaten over the centuries into an outward appearance of calm while they are inwardly in turmoil. Because to actually speak up is greeted as "rebellion", they keep silence and make an "appearance" of peace. If you've ever done any Christian counseling what you will hear 90% of the time is males overstepping their positional privileges - over and over and over.

I mean think about it. We're in charge. We make the decisions when it matters. As long as we don't ask our wives to sin, we can ask and expect compliance to whatever we want. So if we want dinner on the table at a certain time, we are within our rights to ask it and GET it. We can demand/request that our wives dress the way we like. And we can justify it that we love her and want her to look good (to us). We can literally order her life for her, all in the name of loving her and wanting what is best for her. I've seen this over and over, but most don't bother with the excuse of loving her and wanting what is best for her. Most just say it like it is, "I'm the man in charge, this is my domain and I'll order it the way I see as best". Children can be treated the same although most men leave the children up to the wife within limits.

Now for those women who applaud and praise authoritative husbands, most have learned how to manipulate their way, part of which is the praise factor. It's the only means available to them.

These are real life situations that I have seen many times in good Christians. Those who do NOT emphasize the "authority over" issues are more likely to serve each other rather than seek to be served.

As I said before, this isn't about the women. It's about men wanting authority, position, privileges. We will fight to the blood for that. But you don't see many fighting to the blood to be sure that the little women are truly cared for the way Christ cares for the church. And perhaps, that is a topic worth considering.

[methinkshe]

Myself, I am a firm, old fashioned believer that a wife should be obedient to her husband.

However, if you look at the verse of scripture more closely, there is no need for a woman to feel 'less worthy' than her husband, for the following reason:

A wife is told to obey her husband;

A husband is told to love his wife.

So, who, in actual fact, is the one who 'serves'?.....

The one who 'obeys'....or the one who 'loves'?

There is no reason for anybody, male or female, to take offense at any instruction regarding the marital union, in my opinion. Both are catered for, and no-one needs to feel 'left out' or 'less important' thumbsup.gif

In spite of the fact that Scripture does not say that a wife is to obey her husband, you are correct. IF both spouses seek to serve the other to the fullest of their ability, it should work out for the good of both. Unfortunately, that is the rarest of cases when "authority over" is brought into the marriage. It makes the husband the focal point of the marriage instead of Christ.

Rarely is there a problem of wifely submission in Christian marriages. Christian women have been verbally brow beaten over the centuries into an outward appearance of calm while they are inwardly in turmoil. Because to actually speak up is greeted as "rebellion", they keep silence and make an "appearance" of peace. If you've ever done any Christian counseling what you will hear 90% of the time is males overstepping their positional privileges - over and over and over.

I mean think about it. We're in charge. We make the decisions when it matters. As long as we don't ask our wives to sin, we can ask and expect compliance to whatever we want. So if we want dinner on the table at a certain time, we are within our rights to ask it and GET it. We can demand/request that our wives dress the way we like. And we can justify it that we love her and want her to look good (to us). We can literally order her life for her, all in the name of loving her and wanting what is best for her. I've seen this over and over, but most don't bother with the excuse of loving her and wanting what is best for her. Most just say it like it is, "I'm the man in charge, this is my domain and I'll order it the way I see as best". Children can be treated the same although most men leave the children up to the wife within limits.

Now for those women who applaud and praise authoritative husbands, most have learned how to manipulate their way, part of which is the praise factor. It's the only means available to them.

These are real life situations that I have seen many times in good Christians. Those who do NOT emphasize the "authority over" issues are more likely to serve each other rather than seek to be served.

As I said before, this isn't about the women. It's about men wanting authority, position, privileges. We will fight to the blood for that. But you don't see many fighting to the blood to be sure that the little women are truly cared for the way Christ cares for the church. And perhaps, that is a topic worth considering.

What makes you think that it is either loving or serving to demand of your wife your dinner on the table at a certain time without any regard for her convenience or other duties she may have to accomplish? If as a Christian husband you do demand the same, then your wife would have good reason to question your Christ-like love, for surely it would be a very unloving thing to do. It seems to me that what you are trying to do is to use men's sinfulness as an excuse for dismissing God's order. Surely, if the picture of husbandly love that God has given us is a laying down of his life for his wife (and all that precedes this ultimate sacrifice) then anything less is a falling short of God's perfect order and it has nothing to do with the validity of this order and everything to do with your ability/inability to live it.

Ruth

Edited May 20, 2007 by methinkshe

[Scarletprayers]

I must admit I kinda find it humorous that a man is explaining how women feel, evidently you have done some counseling, so your automatically meeting people that are having problems to begin with, so it doesn't surprise me that, that it was you see more of.

I am no longer married, I just wish I had, had a husband that had attempted to do anything that Christ wants husbands to do, including being the "head" of the household.

[OopsMartin]

Also there is a difference between value and authority. What is it that cant be understood about authority. Am I of more value than my children, I most certianly am not. But I do have an AUTHORITY over them. Likewise with my wife. I have an AUTHORITY as the head of our family. This authority is GOD-GIVEN. It is to be EXERCISED UNDER GOD'S LEADING. I am not to be a dictaitor but a steward. One who cares for, and leads my family under God ruling.

This truly is not a thread about feminism, but a thread about not desiring to submit to the God-given authority.

Do you sumbit to the police when they come down the street with there lights on.....does this make you of lesser value?

Excellent!

As men, we don't see any problem with authority and submitting to it in our daily lives. It's just the way life is. But then we don't have to go home and sleep with them do we, which is partially why authoritative men don't like the idea of police women. To authoritative men, women are sexual beings meant to be wives and bear children. Authority and intimacy, the kind of soul intimacy and deep companionship marriage is supposed to provide, just don't mix well. Paul knew that, which is why he painted the picture of a body and a head attached to one another. Separate the two in any way, even just partially, and life is diminished.

[Emily~Anne]

I for one see the beauty of God's design for husbands and wives. Women are weaker, and we are more emotional. We need protectors. We need someone stronger and braver. It just makes sense for that person to be the one in authority.

For example, me and my hsuband both have compassion for injured critters on the side of the road and my husband decided after waiting 2 hours one time for a police officer to shoot an injured fawn, to keep a small unloaded locked gun in the van. If we come across another injured critter, my husband has every intention of being the one to shoot the critter as opposed to me shooting it.

We have an ant problem. When the trash can has ants crawling all over it, my husband steps in and takes over the garbage for me.

If one of our children is givng me a hard time, my husband steps in and takes care of it. Our children know that their father is the head of this household. I feel a certain safety in being able to defer certain questions to my husband. I like to say, "Let me ask my husband."

I grew up in a wickedly abusive home. The picture you feminists are painting of the husband who is head of the household in an abusive male ego type of way is all wrong. Stephen UK described it just right.

My husband loves me very much, and when he acts as head of the household, his love for me really shows.

[Scarletprayers]

Also there is a difference between value and authority. What is it that cant be understood about authority. Am I of more value than my children, I most certianly am not. But I do have an AUTHORITY over them. Likewise with my wife. I have an AUTHORITY as the head of our family. This authority is GOD-GIVEN. It is to be EXERCISED UNDER GOD'S LEADING. I am not to be a dictaitor but a steward. One who cares for, and leads my family under God ruling.

This truly is not a thread about feminism, but a thread about not desiring to submit to the God-given authority.

Do you sumbit to the police when they come down the street with there lights on.....does this make you of lesser value?

Excellent!

As men, we don't see any problem with authority and submitting to it in our daily lives. It's just the way life is. But then we don't have to go home and sleep with them do we, which is partially why authoritative men don't like the idea of police women. To authoritative men, women are sexual beings meant to be wives and bear children. Authority and intimacy, the kind of soul intimacy and deep companionship marriage is supposed to provide, just don't mix well. Paul knew that, which is why he painted the picture of a body and a head attached to one another. Separate the two in any way, even just partially, and life is diminished.

Okay, I disagree with you 100%, I know many man that want a strong independent woman beside them. But thats just to big a generalization to provide any accuracy.

[sweetycakes]

In spite of the fact that Scripture does not say that a wife is to obey her husband

Gen 3:16 Unto the woman He said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

1Pe 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection( to subordinate, obey) to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

What is not clear?

You said it

[Emily~Anne]

As men, we don't see any problem with authority and submitting to it in our daily lives. It's just the way life is. But then we don't have to go home and sleep with them do we, which is partially why authoritative men don't like the idea of police women. To authoritative men, women are sexual beings meant to be wives and bear children. Authority and intimacy, the kind of soul intimacy and deep companionship marriage is supposed to provide, just don't mix well. Paul knew that, which is why he painted the picture of a body and a head attached to one another. Separate the two in any way, even just partially, and life is diminished.

They mix very well. You are only thinking of abusive examples. Think of examples in which the man who is the head of the wife loves his wife as he loves himself, as described in Ephesians 5.

Ephesians 5:22-32

Wives and Husbands

22Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church

[OopsMartin]

In spite of the fact that Scripture does not say that a wife is to obey her husband

Gen 3:16 Unto the woman He said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

1Pe 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection( to subordinate, obey) to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

What is not clear?

We've already discussed that upotassoMAI is to voluntarily arrange oneself under. The word that means obey, upakouo, is NOT used. It IS used when addressing children and slaves. Thus, Paul deliberately told wives to voluntarily submit, while he told children and slaves to obey.

but lets look at Gen. 3:16.

To the woman God warns "I will greatly multiply thy sorrow (toil, hardship, pain

[OopsMartin]

I know many man that want a strong independent woman beside them. But thats just to big a generalization to provide any accuracy.

Yes, and I'd be one of those. There are quite a few of us around, but they aren't patriarchalists as most on this thread are. And those who appreciate strong women of many varieties know that if we want to serve them, we had best stand beside them rather than over them.