From Holy Spirit to hypnotism to shamanism in 3 weeks

[Vickilynn]

Shalom Ruth,

I am so sorry. This is definitely not G-d, but an example of man superseding G-d. How horrible to try to "conjure" up the Holy Spirit. I would have walked out of that church immediately. If the L-rd is leading y'all to stay there and pray for the eyes the people to be opened, please be vigilant in prayer beforehand and be fitted with the Armour Of G-d!

[methinkshe]

Shalom Ruth,

I am so sorry. This is definitely not G-d, but an example of man superseding G-d. How horrible to try to "conjure" up the Holy Spirit. I would have walked out of that church immediately. If the L-rd is leading y'all to stay there and pray for the eyes the people to be opened, please be vigilant in prayer beforehand and be fitted with the Armour Of G-d!

Thank you. Yes, we do believe that at the present time the Lord would have us stay there and pray for our pastor and his family, but I don't think it will be for very much longer unless things change radically. Of course, my children are now all old enough to decide for themselves, but we are very much of one mind in this matter, so although I may decide to leave before they do, for the sake of my disabled daughter who has limited understanding and is therefore far more susceptible to false teaching than her older siblings, I believe we shall all act as the Holy Spirit leads. I think perhaps we could apply the Scripture about restoring a brother. The one that speaks of warning 3 times and then removing him from fellowship or, in this case, removing ourselves. I can't remember the name and address of this verse - as usual! Perhaps someone else can help.

In Jesus,

Ruth

[apothanein kerdos]

If I were you, I would leave that church immediately (if you already haven't).

[Marnie]

Yeah, I am with AK on this one. I can tolerate many things but false teaching is something I cannot abide. I think the NT is pretty clear on it. Jude is a good epistle to read in regards to false teaching. Your pastor, though, may be more of a confused teacher than a false one. I am definitely getting the impression that there is more confusion behind the pulpit than ever before; and I have only been saved for some 6 years!

[Guest patricia 33]

My family began attending a small fellowship a couple of months ago. The pastor and His family really radiated the love of Jesus. He spoke of his desire that the church should move forward powerfully in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. His sermons were Scripturally based and I had no problem with his teaching. I found the modern worship not totally to my taste, but thought I was just being old-fogeyish. I was never over-keen on overbearing drums and heavy guitar strumming, and singing choruses repetitively but, hey, got to move with the times, I thought. Three weeks ago the Pastor and his family attended a Benny Hinn conference and came back with glowing reports of his powerful ministry.

Last Sunday it seemed to me that the music was deliberately being used to conjure up a mood/atmosphere. Changes in tempo were used to manipulate the congregation into, say, an almost dreamlike state by the repetitive playing and singing of single-concept chorusus and then charge them up with a high tempo, heavy beat song to get people dancing. What I felt were rather pointed comments directed at my family were made about allowing ourselves to "let go" and be "free" in our worship and not mind what other people think, but to dance around the church and wave our hands around. Apparently, some of us were "inhibited" by "spiritual pride" or "self-conciousness" or "a religious spirit". Anyway, this long session of music culminated in people going foward for prayer from the pastor who laid a hand on their forehead, and they fell backwards - although "laid a hand" does not accurately describe what looked to me more like a hefty push. One poor girl who steadfastly stood was told to close her eyes while the pastor was joined by another prayer partner and between them they began to rock her back and forth until, not unnaturally, she fell over. When I got home I did a lot of research on Benny Hinn and was not suprised to discover that the suggestion techniques he uses including music and lighting, which result in mass falling down, are no different to those used by any stage hypnotist - beginning with Mesmer. Our pastor was convinced that it was by the power of the Holy Spirit that people were falling down and twitching convulsively on the floor for up to ten minutes. I urged my family to pray urgently that our Pastor would have his eyes opened to the hypnotic practices employed by Benny Hinn and stop imitating them in our fellowship.

For some reason, this week our Pastor decided to change Sunday morning worship to Friday evening, which meant I couldn't attend because of baby-sitting duties. However, four of my children - 19 yrs upwards, did attend. They had no objections to the worship until about halfway through when the pastor whispered something to the drummer. There followed 10 minutes of steady drumming interspersed by the drummer shouting out from time to time: Jesus! Come spirit! More! More! My children literally shuddered. It was as though, they told me afterwards, they were summoning the Holy Spirit with drumming and shouting - as though the Holy Spirit should or even can be summoned by mere men! It reminded them of an African ritual tribal dance where drumming is used to bring about a trance and summon the spirits until they enter the shaman and he starts speaking through the spirits. They had no doubt that if an African tribesman, accustomed to such rituals, had walked into the church at that moment, and been asked whether he knew what was going on, that he would have had no difficulty in identifying the pastor as the shaman and the drumming as a means of calling up the spirits. He could then have predicted that the shaman would begin to "prophesy" or speak under the influence of the spirits, and onlookers who were touched by him would fall or convulse or manifest other signs of powerful spiritual influences. Which is exactly what happened next in the church when people were called forward to be "prayed" for, lined up, and fell over backwards as the pastor went along the line clappping his hand on their foreheads. One chap (who has apparently been saved for five years and is the worship group leader) found the pastor's fist pushed up into his solar plexus and began making choking sounds. I have watched him do this on several previoous occasions when he has been prayed for. Apparently he is manifesting deliverance from an unclean spirit or some spiritual stronghold.

One of my daughters saw demons manifest and swarm around those being prayed for. Another daughter began shivering even though just ten minutes earlier she had been too warm. My two sons prayed for the Lord to protect them.

How is it possible for believers to be so deceived, for I have no doubt that the Pastor and his family are born again believers?

At the moment none of my family believe the Lord is calling us to leave the fellowship, but rather to pray that the eyes of the Pastor and his family will be opened.

It seems to me that Benny Hinn has a lot to answer for and, sadly, so will our Pastor if he persists with this deviation into hypnotism and shamanism.

Please be warned, dear brothers and sisters.

In Jesus,

Ruth

[methinkshe]

Yeah, I am with AK on this one. I can tolerate many things but false teaching is something I cannot abide. I think the NT is pretty clear on it. Jude is a good epistle to read in regards to false teaching. Your pastor, though, may be more of a confused teacher than a false one. I am definitely getting the impression that there is more confusion behind the pulpit than ever before; and I have only been saved for some 6 years!

Yes, he is confused - His heart is for the Lord and He has this yearning desire to serve the Lord but he's been sidetracked. The fellowship is just an informal gathering of Christians that meets in the Town Hall on Sundays and in people's homes during the week. So many of the established churches in our area are liberal to the point of denying half the Bible, or totally dead with a handful of eighty year olds for a congregation who attend more from habit than conviction, which is why this man started a church for those who believe the Bible is the inerrant Word of God and who want to grow as Christians and not just attend Sunday morning worship as a sop to conscience or habit. So he has no formal Bible training, has a full time job as well as leading the fellowship, and is probably struggling with his workload. I am sure that his departure from sound doctrine has more to do with naivety than knowing and wilful disobedience to God's Word. And he has definitely been infected through attending that Benny Hinn Conference - there was a noticeable change in his demeanour when he returned. It is for that reason that we are hanging on in there for a couple more weeks - or until the Lord either calls one or all of us to confront him or to "shake the dust from our feet" and walk away. There are so many young Christians who attend - young in the Lord as well as years, who are in desperate need of sound teaching, that we feel we should not abandon them to this false teaching without first having made every effort through prayer and whatever else the Lord leads us to do, to open their spiritual eyes.

The way I see it is this: it is as though the Pastor was leading the fellowship along a long, straight, narrow road and they came to a place where the road passed through a rather dry and bare landscape. Looking to the left, the Pastor saw in the distance, a beautiful orange grove, with lush trees and ripe fruit. Anxious to be out of the dryness, he veered off the road, across country, and headed for the orange grove. He has yet to realise that it is a mirage, and that sometimes the Lord DOES lead his people through dry and dusty places on His straight and narrow road, because he has lessons they can learn in those wilderness times, not the least, patience and perseverance. At the moment I feel we are calling out to him from the road, begging him to hear and turn around. Soon it will be time for us to continue our journey, but we must stand and call him for just a little longer. Maybe, even if the Pastor does not hear, one or two stragglers will hear and turn around and come back to the straight and narrow road.

Thank you for your prayers. Your love in Jesus is so appreciated.

In Jesus,

Ruth

[sheya joie]

Shalom Ruth,

I am so sorry. This is definitely not G-d, but an example of man superseding G-d. How horrible to try to "conjure" up the Holy Spirit. I would have walked out of that church immediately. If the L-rd is leading y'all to stay there and pray for the eyes the people to be opened, please be vigilant in prayer beforehand and be fitted with the Armour Of G-d!

Thank you. Yes, we do believe that at the present time the Lord would have us stay there and pray for our pastor and his family, but I don't think it will be for very much longer unless things change radically. Of course, my children are now all old enough to decide for themselves, but we are very much of one mind in this matter, so although I may decide to leave before they do, for the sake of my disabled daughter who has limited understanding and is therefore far more susceptible to false teaching than her older siblings, I believe we shall all act as the Holy Spirit leads. I think perhaps we could apply the Scripture about restoring a brother. The one that speaks of warning 3 times and then removing him from fellowship or, in this case, removing ourselves. I can't remember the name and address of this verse - as usual! Perhaps someone else can help.

In Jesus,

Ruth

Ruth, is this the verse you had in mind?

Tit 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

Tit 3:11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Or perhaps this?

Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Hmm, I was about to post, when I feel strongly I should add:

Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

[eric]

MTS, you have a tough decision and I realise your dilemma, made tougher by the fact that you don't want to leave the "babes" stranded with someone who let's himself be influenced by other false pastors and hasn't had sufficient theological training to lead people in the word.

As much as I don't like criticising argie bargie teachers, I have to admit the Benny Hinn is not much of a role model for the purpose of church planting.

All that I can do, Ruth is pray for you and yours that H/S will lead you to making the right decision.

GBY,

eric.

[methinkshe]

Shalom Ruth,

I am so sorry. This is definitely not G-d, but an example of man superseding G-d. How horrible to try to "conjure" up the Holy Spirit. I would have walked out of that church immediately. If the L-rd is leading y'all to stay there and pray for the eyes the people to be opened, please be vigilant in prayer beforehand and be fitted with the Armour Of G-d!

Thank you. Yes, we do believe that at the present time the Lord would have us stay there and pray for our pastor and his family, but I don't think it will be for very much longer unless things change radically. Of course, my children are now all old enough to decide for themselves, but we are very much of one mind in this matter, so although I may decide to leave before they do, for the sake of my disabled daughter who has limited understanding and is therefore far more susceptible to false teaching than her older siblings, I believe we shall all act as the Holy Spirit leads. I think perhaps we could apply the Scripture about restoring a brother. The one that speaks of warning 3 times and then removing him from fellowship or, in this case, removing ourselves. I can't remember the name and address of this verse - as usual! Perhaps someone else can help.

In Jesus,

Ruth

Ruth, is this the verse you had in mind?

Tit 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

Tit 3:11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Or perhaps this?

Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Hmm, I was about to post, when I feel strongly I should add:

Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Yes, Titus 3:10 was the verse I was thinking of. But they are all helpful. Thank you so much for taking the time to look them up and post them.

And Eric, thank you for your prayers. I'm glad you understand our dilemma - it isn't easy, but I'm trusting the Lord to guide us every step of the way. We must neither run before Him, nor lag behind. We believe the Lord brought us to this fellowship and maybe this is the reason why, so that we could be salt and light when they most needed.

In Jesus,

Ruth

[RedeemedByHim]

All I will say is that Benny Hinn does NOT hypnotize people...now what I am hearing at your church...part of it does seem kind of wacky...but then again I wasn't there that night so I can't and will NOT comment...